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Epic Calder Race 2024-25

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Mattb124 said:
What is debatable is whether being in a playoff race or playing for a high profile franchise has any bearing on the Calder race. Bedard would probably suggest it doesn’t.
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Being the playoff race matters if the rookie is a reason for it. Look at wolf in Calgary as a good example. Playing for MTL is just the cherry on top. Remove that element and my point stands.
 
spintheblackcircle said:
Also, the Sharks had 47 pts all of last year and this year they already have 47 points with 12 games to go. They have improved this year just as much as Montreal has and it's ALL because of him.
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Just because other people are Canadiens fans doesn't mean we have to use their logic. It's sufficient to say he's our best player, but the team upgraded in other areas too.
 
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Frank Drebin said:
I had to open the history book all the way back to Connor Bedard back in 2023-24.

Lol but seriously its not common and an impressive feat for Celebrini. Hes very very good.
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My point exactly, and how does Celebrini's hype compared to the hype Berard came into the league with? People were calling him the best player to come into the league since McDavid.

But to be fair I'd be happy for Hutson or Wolf if they win, and I'm extatic with Celebrini because I'm on record telling people on this forum he was going to be as good as he is after watching him in Boston.

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luiginb said:
My point exactly, and how does Celebrini's hype compared to the hype Berard came into the league with? People were calling him the best player to come into the league since McDavid.

But to be fair I'd be happy for Hutson or Wolf if they win, and I'm extatic with Celebrini because I'm on record telling people on this forum he was going to be as good as he is after watching him in Boston.
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Bedard was over-hyped and Celebrini was under-hyped, maybe a hang over effect from Bedard’s over-hyping? Celebrini already looks like he may be a better player than Bedard, having very similar rookie production (.90 ppg) while playing a much more well rounded game.
 
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spintheblackcircle said:
Because he is a better player. This is the point of the award, has zero to do with team success.

"To the player selected as the most proficient in his first year of competition"

The Sharks have Celebrini on the ice at the end of the game when they have the lead. Meanwhile, Hutson barely sees the ice with a lead in the last minutes. Hutson sees the 2nd fewest defensive zone starts in the entire NHL for defenseman who have played more than 20 games. He is an amazing QB offensively and a liability defensively. Celebrini is not a liability is his own zone.

Also, the Sharks had 47 pts all of last year and this year they already have 47 points with 12 games to go. They have improved this year just as much as Montreal has and it's ALL because of him.
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I think of this as such incredibly dumb logic - you have someone who looks like he’s already a top-5 defenseman in the league with the puck on his stick, why not try to maximize his talents lmao
 
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BoHorvat 53 said:
I think of this as such incredibly dumb logic - you have someone who looks like he’s already a top-5 defenseman in the league with the puck on his stick, why not try to maximize his talents lmao
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You mean the logic not to put him out on the ice in the closing minutes of the game, or not have him in D zone starts? Just asking to clarify, the other read of your post is that the poster had dumb logic, which I don't think you meant.
 
spintheblackcircle said:
Because he is a better player. This is the point of the award, has zero to do with team success.

"To the player selected as the most proficient in his first year of competition"

The Sharks have Celebrini on the ice at the end of the game when they have the lead. Meanwhile, Hutson barely sees the ice with a lead in the last minutes. Hutson sees the 2nd fewest defensive zone starts in the entire NHL for defenseman who have played more than 20 games. He is an amazing QB offensively and a liability defensively. Celebrini is not a liability is his own zone.

Also, the Sharks had 47 pts all of last year and this year they already have 47 points with 12 games to go. They have improved this year just as much as Montreal has and it's ALL because of him.
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*Impacting team success does have something to do with it when all candidates are this close.

With the Habs you can more easily quantify it. They were essentially same team as last year which finished bottom 5 for 3rd straight year. Now we have a Lane Hutson & we're in the playoffs. Of course we also added Laine which helps but no Habs fan with a straight face will tell you he has impacted the game more than Hutson has unless we are only talking about PP goals.

With Celebrini, it is much more difficult to quantify how much he's impacted the Shark's success because they are still dead last in the league. And you say it's ONLY been celebrini - but I think others have also contributed to increase in points like Tofolli & Wallman for example. So that's not really fair to say Hutson has all this help because Habs are this OP team but sharks additions have done nothing to contribute.

I also do not agree Hutson is as big of a liability that some seem here to think. He is much better defensively than he was back in October/November. And him not starting in D-zone as much makes sense when Habs have better players suited for that role & can instead use Hutson for the O-zone starts. Not sure that is as big of a knock as you think it is
 
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HabzSauce said:
*Impacting team success does have something to do with it when all candidates are this close.

With the Habs you can more easily quantify it. They were essentially same team as last year which finished bottom 5 for 3rd straight year. Now we have a Lane Hutson & we're in the playoffs. Of course we also added Laine which helps but no Habs fan with a straight face will tell you he has impacted the game more than Hutson has unless we are only talking about PP goals.
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21-12-6 with Laine

12-15-3 without Laine

Who has impacted the team performance more than that for Montreal?
 
spintheblackcircle said:
21-12-6 with Laine

12-15-3 without Laine

Who has impacted the team performance more than that for Montreal?
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Laine joined the team December 3, almost the exact time Hutson was moved to pp1.

25-14-6 in that time period
21-12-6 with him in the lineup
4-2-0 with him out of the lineup.

16-10-2 since the Carrier trade
14-9-2 since Primeau was waived

too funny, a cbj fan advocating for Laine as team mvp
 
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Mattb124 said:
What is debatable is whether being in a playoff race or playing for a high profile franchise has any bearing on the Calder race. Bedard would probably suggest it doesn’t.
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The playoff race shouldn't, unless the rookie in question is a large part of why the team is in the playoff hunt. Franchise history also shouldn't, but we've seen in the past when some cities with more exposure have players get more votes. It shouldn't happen, but it does.
 
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spintheblackcircle said:
21-12-6 with Laine

12-15-3 without Laine

Who has impacted the team performance more than that for Montreal?
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Brother are you really trying to argue Laine has impacted the Habs more than Hutson has? Do you really believe this?

Laine can barely skate. He looks broken & hasn't done a whole lot of anything besides rip his PP one timers
 
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HabzSauce said:
*Impacting team success does have something to do with it when all candidates are this close.

With the Habs you can more easily quantify it. They were essentially same team as last year which finished bottom 5 for 3rd straight year. Now we have a Lane Hutson & we're in the playoffs. Of course we also added Laine which helps but no Habs fan with a straight face will tell you he has impacted the game more than Hutson has unless we are only talking about PP goals.
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How can you not mention your #1 C playing at above a PPG for the first time in his career, or your superstar winger hitting 30 for the first time?
 
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tiburon12 said:
How can you not mention your #1 C playing at above a PPG for the first time in his career, or your superstar winger hitting 30 for the first time?
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Because Laine was brought up specifically. Suzuki was almost PPG last year too btw when the team finished bottom 5. He's been great but not like he popped off out of nowhere.

What we didn't have last year that we do now is a 55-60+ point rookie defenceman playing 23+ minutes a game.
 
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HabzSauce said:
Because Laine was brought up specifically. Suzuki was almost PPG last year too btw when the team finished bottom 5. He's been great but not like he popped off out of nowhere.

What we didn't have last year that we do now is a 55-60+ point rookie defenceman playing 23+ minutes a game.
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IDK, seems like Suzuki drives the bus, at least thats what I see when I watch the Habs.
 
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tiburon12 said:
IDK, seems like Suzuki drives the bus, at least thats what I see when I watch the Habs.
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Suzuki is the bus driver but Hutson is next man up. Already drives alot of the play himself. Together they are deadly

Celebrini is doing that too but not with same impact as Hutson has for Habs IMO
 
HabzSauce said:
Suzuki is the bus driver but Hutson is next man up. Already drives alot of the play himself. Together they are deadly

Celebrini is doing that too but not with same impact as Hutson has for Habs IMO
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So when you watch the Sharks, you think Celebrini, as the team's best player and play driver, does less than Hutson does as the #2 guy on the Habs? That seems disingenuous to me.
 
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