Epic Calder Race 2024-25

[karltonian]

Nothing anyone says can contextualize a team so bad that Barclay Goodrow is one of best OFFENSIVE forwards. A player with 7 points on the year.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

He’s just not on the same level as Hutson as far as rookie seasons go.

He’d need to be sitting at 80+ points currently to be on the same level.

Hutson is now tied for 5th in scoring among all NHL defensemen. The 5th place forward in NHL scoring currently has 84 points.

The Sharks are a worse team, and that should be considered, but it’s simply not enough to make up for the vast gulf between them in terms of impact so far.

Edit: laugh reacts, but no counter arguments, because there isn’t one lmao

I could agree with the point you’re making but I don’t I don’t agree with the gap you’re proposing. It’s harder to be top 5 in a position with double the players. As well as the nature of the position being different. (Not as many offensive minded/skilled players on defence)

 

[Garbageyuk]

I could agree with the point you’re making but I don’t I don’t agree with the gap you’re proposing. It’s harder to be top 5 in a position with double the players. As well as the nature of the position being different.

Maybe, but that goes the other way too, there are less spots so it’s harder to be there in the first place. And defense is intrinsically the harder position to be proficient at, especially for a rookie.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Maybe, but that goes the other way too, there are less spots so it’s harder to be there in the first place. And defense is intrinsically the harder position to be proficient at, especially for a rookie.

Yeah that’s a good counter argument. It’s much harder to be in a position to succeed (being top 5) as a defenseman than a forward.

 

[Rubi]

Wolf is a machine, but why would they vote for him, instead of the actual best rookie player this year aka Lane Hutson?

All voters vote for five candidates on their ballot and they rank each candidate with pts according to placement... ie. 10-7-5-3-1 pts. and the candidate with the most pts among all voters wins. It was rumored back in 2002 when Jarome Iginla and Jose Theodore were the leading candidates for the Hart trophy one or more Quebec sports writers left Iginla off their ballots completely in order to increase the odds of Theodore winning. Back then the voting ballots were kept secret so nothing can be definitely proved.. just rumors and hearsay.
However, since then, all ballots are made public for transparency purposes so .. maybe there's more to the story than hearsay. Hopefully any sports writer would be too embarrassed to do something similar now in order to skew the voting process.

 

[karltonian]

Lol I just looked at the advanced stats and Goodrow's line had 0% CF. Like I don't think I've ever actually seen a line get 0% before..

 

[Garbageyuk]

All voters vote for five candidates on their ballot and they rank each candidate with pts according to placement... ie. 10-7-5-3-1 pts. and the candidate with the most pts among all voters wins. It was rumored back in 2002 when Jarome Iginla and Jose Theodore were the leading candidates for the Hart trophy one or more Quebec sports writers left Iginla off their ballots completely in order to increase the odds of Theodore winning. Back then the voting ballots were kept secret so nothing can be definitely proved.. just rumors and hearsay.
However, since then, all ballots are made public for transparency purposes so .. maybe there's more to the story than hearsay. Hopefully any sports writer would be too embarrassed to do something similar now in order to skew the voting process.

It’s all just hearsay and rumours though, like you said.

However, that season by Theodore might be a top 5 regular season all time by a goaltender - he was unreal, and he played in 67 games.

Iginla’s season was impressive, but was it anywhere near top 5 all time for a forward? Absolutely not. I mean, there’s an Art Ross winner literally every year. He did win the Rocket too, but that still doesn’t make it anywhere near as rare as what Theodore did that season.

The best man won that year.

 

[wetcoast]

must have been between today and 6 days ago. I'm just glad you've become more "open minded" lately.

More like the beginning of January, maybe read more and try and score points less?

Post in thread 'Epic Calder Race 2024-25'

Mar 9, 2025

Is he still in the race? Hutson and Wolfe are leading their clubs in playoff races. Celebrini is playing in meaningless, no pressure games.
Celebrini is really good; so is Michkov. But imo the other two are pulling away from the pack.

You'd be wrong here Celebrini is till the frontrunner.

• wetcoast

• 

 

[Frank Drebin]

More like the beginning of January, maybe read more and try and score points less?

If you said blue and I said red, I'd score points. I have zero interest in nailing down the exact day reality slapped you in the face about Hutson.

 

[wetcoast]

Bringing up Hughes isn’t immaterial to the discussion at all, but you have every reason to pretend it is.

The point is that you are in here making inflammatory and negative comments, nitpicking about a rookie defenseman, doing the same type of thing in several other Habs related threads, and then when you get any pushback, playing the victim with the whole “I’m just stating the obvious bro, I’m just calling it how I see it bro, I’m just being objective bro, sorry that offends you”.

How Hughes relates to this, since you are claiming it’s “immaterial” to the discussion, is that Hughes makes as many defensive gaffes as anyone, but you vigorously and consistently defend him, which is fine - you’re entitled to your opinion, but the problem arises when you come into threads like this to stir the pot over a gimmicky 3 on 3 play in order to slag on Hutson for the same thing you are defending Hughes for, in this very thread no less.

I’m not the only one to point this out here either; several others have, yet you continue to double and triple down with the disingenuous “I’m just being objective bro” routine.

Dude I commented on a clip someone else posted and like I said if you think it's a good look just say so.

Also I don't project what motivates others as I don't care, you might be trolling, might be stupid, might be in love with all things Habs...i don't care. I certainly won't speculate here either as it's a bad look that's really your problem.

Make the argument about the player back it up and have a discussion that's what this board is about.

Also your take about Hughes is about 4 years old he has had made great strides defensively and I say this as a guy who had questions about how his defensive game would project, thus I do call balls and strikes, if you don't believe me I don't really care.

but the bottom line is that people who have comments that you don't agree with you go to the

"inflammatory and negative comments, nitpicking about a rookie defenseman"BS.

Sorry to inform you here but that's what the people voting on the actual awards do they compare and contrast players for the award, they don't care about fans bases sensitive feeling and insecurities neither should anyone else here.

Every player has ups and downs and no one should be whining about it if they want to be taken seriously.

 

[McSkittlez]

He’s just not on the same level as Hutson as far as rookie seasons go.

He’d need to be sitting at 80+ points currently to be on the same level.

Hutson is now tied for 5th in scoring among all NHL defensemen. The 5th place forward in NHL scoring currently has 84 points.

The Sharks are a worse team, and that should be considered, but it’s simply not enough to make up for the vast gulf between them in terms of impact so far.

Edit: laugh reacts, but no counter arguments, because there isn’t one lmao

Celebrini, as an 18 year old, is playing a 1C role with pretty good faceoff stats which is rare for a rookie facing opposition’s top lines every game and has been consistent points wise all season long. Plus he’s been playing with a defensive corp consisting of bottom pair talent with the exception of Walman whose play became worse since December. Hutson has the second lowest number of defensive starts on his team with 6% as a defenseman.

 

[wetcoast]

If you said blue and I said red, I'd score points. I have zero interest in nailing down the exact day reality slapped you in the face about Hutson.

Dude I have long understood that you have little interest in actual discussions here.

The thing is that if you want to say something about any poster it's a better look if you have the actual facts right?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Dude I have long understood that you have little interest in actual discussions here.

The thing is that if you want to say something about any poster it's a better look if you have the actual facts right?

What was it that you would like to discuss?

 

[karltonian]

Celebrini, as an 18 year old, is playing a 1C role with pretty good faceoff stats which is rare for a rookie facing opposition’s top lines every game and has been consistent points wise all season long. Plus he’s been playing with a defensive corp consisting of bottom pair talent with the exception of Walman whose play became worse since December. Hutson has the lowest number of defensive starts on his team with 6% which is the second least on his team as a defenseman.

A 21-year old defenseman, btw

 

[HuGo Sham]

A 21-year old defenseman, btw

It’s amazing that in this thread it’s important to shit on / denigrate the exceptional play of another rookie - when they’re all incredibly deserving. So many embarrassing, petty takes

 

[Frank Drebin]

Celebrini, as an 18 year old, is playing a 1C role with pretty good faceoff stats which is rare for a rookie facing opposition’s top lines every game and has been consistent points wise all season long. Plus he’s been playing with a defensive corp consisting of bottom pair talent with the exception of Walman whose play became worse since December. Hutson has the lowest number of defensive starts on his team with 6% which is the second least as a defenseman.

There is a lot of “pretty good” and “bodes well” in celebrinis season and I’ve said all year that he’s got top 5 centre written all over him.

Hutson is having the best offensive season for a rookie d in over 30 years, on a much lower scoring team than any of the top 10 rookie d played for in the roaring 80s and 90s. Excluding the pro rated seasons of quasi generational dmen makar and quinn hughes in 19-20.

What Hutson is doing this season is too big to ignore. No one cares about dzone starts

 

[Frank Drebin]

A 21-year old defenseman, btw

We missed lanes birthday. Valentines baby

 

[karltonian]

It’s amazing that in this thread it’s important to shit on / denigrate the exceptional play of another rookie - when they’re all incredibly deserving. So many embarrassing, petty takes

The difference between 18 and 21 is not petty in the least.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Also your take about Hughes is about 4 years old he has had made great strides defensively

4 years old? Lol, we are talking about last year’s playoffs. Like I said, he got beat and abused like a rented mule every night in the series against Edmonton because he was already so worn down by the gruelling grind of the 1st round by the time he faced them lmao. He was literally the weak link defensively that Edmonton exploited all series long.

You claim to “call balls and strikes” and see things objectively, but you’re here denying, minimizing, and making excuses for your boy’s lousy defensive play last postseason while simultaneously ragging on Hutson for a supposed defensive gaffe on a gimmick play off the draw in 3 on 3.

 

[McSkittlez]

There is a lot of “pretty good” and “bodes well” in celebrinis season and I’ve said all year that he’s got top 5 centre written all over him.

Hutson is having the best offensive season for a rookie d in over 30 years, on a much lower scoring team than any of the top 10 rookie d played for in the roaring 80s and 90s. Excluding the pro rated seasons of quasi generational dmen makar and quinn hughes in 19-20.

What Hutson is doing this season is too big to ignore. No one cares about dzone starts

What Hutson is doing is amazing, especially as a rookie Dman. I’m not denying that. There’s still plenty of games left until we have a clear winner. Just arguing that Hutson has a 6% start in the defensive zone. He has a total of 1500 shifts. Only 90 of those shifts were in the defensive zone which IMO, is a pretty significant stat when you’re a defenseman. Also not caring about the number of shift starts you have in the offensive, defensive zone is ignorant. You can also argue the fact that Hutson has the highest percentage of starts in the offensive zone for his team because he’s offensively talented. You obviously wanted your most skilled players in the offensive zone as much as possible.

 

[CauZuki]

What Hutson is doing is amazing, especially as a rookie Dman. I’m not denying that. There’s still plenty of games left until we have a clear winner. Just arguing that Hutson has a 6% start in the defensive zone. He has a total of 1500 shifts. Only 90 of those shifts were in the defensive zone which IMO, is a pretty significant stat when you’re a defenseman.

Grasping and so much so.

 

[HuGo Sham]

The difference between 18 and 21 is not petty in the least.

Sure it is and you know it. You brought it up to diminish his accomplishments. As if somehow, what he’s doing as a Dman is not incredible too.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

The difference between 18 and 21 is not petty in the least.

If you’re arguing who’s gonna be better down the road you make a great point. Not really relevant in a Calder race at all

 

[McSkittlez]

Grasping and so much so.

How do?

 

[Jamaican Patty]

What Hutson is doing is amazing, especially as a rookie Dman. I’m not denying that. There’s still plenty of games left until we have a clear winner. Just arguing that Hutson has a 6% start in the defensive zone. He has a total of 1500 shifts. Only 90 of those shifts were in the defensive zone which IMO, is a pretty significant stat when you’re a defenseman. Also not caring about the number of shift starts you have in the offensive, defensive zone is ignorant. You can also argue the fact that Hutson has the highest percentage of starts in the offensive zone for his team because he’s offensively talented.

That’s irrelevant and means nothing.

Lane Hutson is leading rookie scoring as a dman. Thats what matters.