EP40 Charging Penalty

[Avsfan1921]

I already told you I explained it and you didn’t go back to read it.

EP is standing still, and has the puck. He has no obligation to move, as he owns the space. Foegele moves towards him, EP40 jumps to reduce contact by Foegele who hits him.

So solely because he owns that ice? Is he allowed to stick his stick up to protect himself? Is that legal because he is there first?

I find it fascinating that no one has voted as Oilers fan yet.

That’s the most surprising thing for sure lol.

 

[Bizzare]

I find it fascinating that no one has voted as Oilers fan yet.

I should have done the last option for neutral, Canucks and oilers fan… but was tired of doing it on mobile.

Think Dust is an Oilers fan.

 

[Bizzare]

So solely because he owns that ice? Is he allowed to stick his stick up to protect himself? Is that legal because he is there first?


That’s the most surprising thing for sure lol.

Don’t think we’re going to ever agree, since we can’t agree on definitions of things like what “jumping into” someone is.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Don’t think we’re going to ever agree, since we can’t agree on definitions of things like what “jumping into” someone is.

So now that you’re being asked to defend your position, your done? I’ve spent the better part of the day politely explaining to you why I hold my position, repeating over and over why I believe my stance, you insinuate I’m ignorant, make a poll to try and prove your point. But now we’re done? Interesting, you must really believe in your view of this topic.

 

[Bizzare]

So now that you’re being asked to defend your position, your done? I’ve spent the better part of the day politely explaining to you why I hold my position, repeating over and over why I believe my stance, you insinuate I’m ignorant, make a poll to try and prove your point. But now we’re done? Interesting, you must really believe in your view of this topic.

Politely? Telling me I’m pouting etc … let’s not get soft here.

I explained my position multiple times, but it’s like having a debate with a brick wall. So we can let the votes speak for themselves.

 

[matsqq]

Don’t think we’re going to ever agree, since we can’t agree on definitions of things like what “jumping into” someone is.

That wording is the key for me too.

So now that you’re being asked to defend your position, your done? I’ve spent the better part of the day politely explaining to you why I hold my position, repeating over and over why I believe my stance, you insinuate I’m ignorant, make a poll to try and prove your point. But now we’re done? Interesting, you must really believe in your view of this topic.

I think he explained his position (as did I) and maybe he doesn't want to defend it all day long ?

 

[Slurpeelover27]

There is a very good reason why jumping in hockey isn’t allowed. Skates are pretty sharp in case you haven’t noticed. Jumping before a hit also likely targets the head area which did happen in this case.

 

[Bizzare]

That wording is the key for me too.

I think he explained his position (as did I) and maybe he doesn't want to defend it all day long ?

Exaclty, plus my first flight landed so I can do something productive for a while.

I’ll leave one for you though @Avsfan1921 since you want to debate weird scenarios. If a player breaks their stick and drops the second half and another player falls over it 30 seconds later.. it’s a tripping penalty right? If you don’t agree you can at least understand why it would be called though right?

 

[Avsfan1921]

Politely? Telling me I’m pouting etc … let’s not get soft here.

I explained my position multiple times, but it’s like having a debate with a brick wall. So we can let the votes speak for themselves.

Much more politely than most here would after being asked to say the same things over and over because you are trying to deflect. Setting aside the “jumping into” that we obviously don’t agree on:

Is it legal to bodycheck a player after you’ve left your feet?

If no, what is usually the call?

Has a player who’s left their feet prior to contact ever been called for charging before?

What was petterson in the air for?

If he was “defending his ice” or himself, how is jumping straight up helping in this scenario?

Can a player defend themselves in any manner they want in order to defend their ice?

I can’t think of a single question I’ve asked that you’ve answered.


So many questions I’d like to ask your viewpoint on, if you have time of course.

 

[Bizzare]

There is a very good reason why jumping in hockey isn’t allowed. Skates are pretty sharp in case you haven’t noticed. Jumping before a hit also likely targets the head area which did happen in this case.

Yah, because players jumping to knock down the puck, to avoid hits, to block shots is a giant problem.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Obviously not a charge. Not even a penalty.

 

[12ozPapa]

Definitely a penalty, definitely not charging.

 

[Avsfan1921]

That wording is the key for me too.

I think he explained his position (as did I) and maybe he doesn't want to defend it all day long ?

Oh I’d agree except they have no problem asking me the same thing over and over (and over). To understand the context you’d need to read the thread on the main board. There’s been no debate, just them trying to get me to defend my position while they posted vids of routine hits that they use as comparable. They then go on to make a thread and the first time I ask them to defend their view they say “nope, I’m out”.

 

[Bizzare]

Much more politely than most here would after being asked to say the same things over and over because you are trying to deflect. Setting aside the “jumping into” that we obviously don’t agree on:

Is it legal to bodycheck a player after you’ve left your feet?

If no, what is usually the call?

Has a player who’s left their feet prior to contact ever been called for charging before?

What was petterson in the air for?

If he was “defending his ice” or himself, how is jumping straight up helping in this scenario?

Can a player defend themselves in any manner they want in order to protect themselves?

I can’t think of a single question I’ve asked that you’ve answered.


So many questions I’d like to ask your viewpoint on, if you have time of course.

I’ve answered most of these multiple times, starting to doubt your reading comprehension.

Much more politely than most here would after being asked to say the same things over and over because you are trying to deflect. Setting aside the “jumping into” that we obviously don’t agree on:

Is it legal to bodycheck a player after you’ve left your feet?

If no, what is usually the call?

Has a player who’s left their feet prior to contact ever been called for charging before?

What was petterson in the air for?

If he was “defending his ice” or himself, how is jumping straight up helping in this scenario?

Can a player defend themselves in any manner they want in order to protect themselves?

I can’t think of a single question I’ve asked that you’ve answered.


So many questions I’d like to ask your viewpoint on, if you have time of course.

I’ve answered most of these already… multiple times. Will answer them again shortly (by editing this post) once more shortly. Starting to doubt your reading comprehension though.

 

[PB37]

Very easily a penalty.

I get that on hits, players leave the ice sometimes when making contact ( before and/or after ). But that was too obvious. He would have been fine if he had stayed on the ice or disguised the jump.

 

[Avsfan1921]

I’ve answered most of these multiple times, starting to doubt your reading comprehension.

I’ve answered most of these already… multiple times. Will answer them again shortly (by editing this post) once more shortly. Starting to doubt your reading comprehension though.

You’ve answered that you don’t agree on the “jumps into” and that is all. Then posted tweets from Tim peel, routine hits, and that’s it. You’re deflecting, or are you suddenly too busy after spending the day engaging in this discussion to answer some simply laid out questions?

 

[cc]

So solely because he owns that ice? Is he allowed to stick his stick up to protect himself? Is that legal because he is there first?


That’s the most surprising thing for sure lol.

You can easily elbow and high stick a player without moving from the spot you are occupying. You can't charge someone without moving towards that person.

 

[DeletedUser539]

That's a counter hit, not even, he just braced for impact and reacted more players should do this to avoid potential headshots while the elbow is tucked and the player doesn't use the stick anf push for a brace

 

[Bizzare]

You’ve answered that you don’t agree on the “jumps into” and that is all. Then posted tweets from Tim peel, routine hits, and that’s it. You’re deflecting, or are you suddenly too busy after spending the day engaging in this discussion to answer some simply laid out questions?

I’m flying, and going through airports… also why my responses are getting all glitched out.

Currently walking through an airport will respond when I get to my gate.

Look forward to your response on my tripping post.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Has anyone found a single instance of a player standing still being penalized for charging before?

 

[Bizzare]

Much more politely than most here would after being asked to say the same things over and over because you are trying to deflect. Setting aside the “jumping into” that we obviously don’t agree on:

Is it legal to bodycheck a player after you’ve left your feet? - No, however Petey didn’t body check him, Foegele attempted to hit EP40

If no, what is usually the call? - Charging

Has a player who’s left their feet prior to contact ever been called for charging before?

What was petterson in the air for? To reduce the impact of the hit Foegele was throwing.

If he was “defending his ice” or himself, how is jumping straight up helping in this scenario? He’s not defending his ice, he’s staying in his space. By jumping he absorbs and reduces force he takes. While it’s not apples to apples, similar to in Football (soccer) where a player lifts their leg before someone comes down with their studs. Reduces damage taken.

Can a player defend themselves in any manner they want in order to defend their ice? Of course not, but they can jump straight in the air.

I can’t think of a single question I’ve asked that you’ve answered.


So many questions I’d like to ask your viewpoint on, if you have time of course.

There you go, you got my responses again, anything new there?

 

[Avsfan1921]

There you go, you got my responses again, anything new there?

Yes, plenty. Thank you.

So your stance is that he is attempting to reduce impact by jumping. But he’s not trying to defend himself by taking less punishment. Just owning his space and nothing else.

Setting aside that I don’t agree with this assessment at all (my view that he is attempting a reverse hit), I’d agree with you if he was about to get hit where he’s planted (lower body) such as a hip check but I fail to see how this can make a difference for upper body absorption. How does that work? It would seem more dangerous to take a hit in the air where you can land awkwardly in any position as opposed to shoulder to shoulder, no? Again, assuming that they are not getting hit in the planted area, in this case the lower body.

All of what you stated in your answers comes down to the first you answered, that you don’t think he was attempting to check the opposing player. This is certainly not definitive and as a neutral viewer I actually see it the other way. But it can certainly be viewed as an attempted hit without it being the egregious thing.

 

[heretik27]

All I know is, I don't like that EP jumped. It's an innocent looking play with the puck just being passed back to the Dman inside their zone as Hughes threw a shitty pass off the boards, but EP's got a guy following the puck right up the wall so he's forced to protect himself with no time to make a safe play up the ice.

EDM player kind of gets the shaft in this one because he didn't really do anything wrong. He doesn't look to level EP and only braces for impact when he turns his back to him and just eats a high flying body. If the EDM guy is looking to smash him EP would have probably taken the worst of that collision and then we'd have people whining about EP getting injured off of a suicide pass or something and the EDM player not taking it upon himself to react to a split second change in body positioning.

Ah well, doesn't sound like the guy got hurt, but I've never been a fan of players turning their backs to incoming contact at the last moment.

 

[Bizzare]

Yes, plenty. Thank you.

So your stance is that he is attempting to reduce impact by jumping. But he’s not trying to defend himself by taking less punishment. Just owning his space and nothing else.

Setting aside that I don’t agree with this assessment at all (my view that he is attempting a reverse hit), I’d agree with you if he was about to get hit where he’s planted (lower body) such as a hip check but I fail to see how this can make a difference for upper body absorption. How does that work? It would seem more dangerous to take a hit in the air where you can land awkwardly in any position as opposed to shoulder to shoulder, no? Again, assuming that they are not getting hit in the planted area, in this case the lower body.

All of what you stated in your answers comes down to the first you answered, that you don’t think he was attempting to check the opposing player. This is certainly not definitive and as a neutral viewer I actually see it the other way. But it can certainly be viewed as an attempted hit without it being the egregious thing.

Yes, I said already we fundamentally disagreed on who was attempting to hit who, and you got all upset that I “wasn’t answering” after you did.

Do you think Petey would have fallen over if Foegele hit him and he was on the ice? I do

Do you think Foegele would have fallen over if Petey was on the ice? I don’t

Seems like it worked then.

Still waiting for a response on my tripping post… ever going to respond to that?

 

[Avsfan1921]

All I know is, I don't like that EP jumped. It's an innocent looking play with the puck just being passed back to the Dman inside their zone as Hughes threw a shitty pass off the boards, but EP's got a guy following the puck right up the wall so he's forced to protect himself with no time to make a safe play up the ice.

EDM player kind of gets the shaft in this one because he didn't really do anything wrong. He doesn't look to level EP and only braces for impact when he turns his back to him and just eats a high flying body. If the EDM guy is looking to smash him EP would have probably taken the worst of that collision and then we'd have people whining about EP getting injured off of a suicide pass or something and the EDM player not taking it upon himself to react to a split second change in body positioning.

Ah well, doesn't sound like the guy got hurt, but I've never been a fan of players turning their backs to incoming contact at the last moment.

That’s another aspect as well, if we were to believe that he’s just protecting himself, he put himself in that position. Not that this thread is about that I guess, more on how the rule itself is interpreted. But players are horrible for that these days.