Empty net goal scoring is getting out of control

[Derailed75]

I find it adds excitement to the game. When the goalie is pulled its kind of a do or die for the team with 6 skaters. Two years ago Iwas at a Canes-Sharks game, the Shraks lead by one when RBA pulled the goalie. The Sharks quickly scored to make it a 2 goal lead, but RBA pulled the goalie again and the Canes scored. Pulled him again and the Canes tied it with 12 seconds left and than won in OT.

It was the most exciting sporting event I have seen live.

 

[Mogo]

So ? Pavel Bure had like 10 every season

 

[tarheelhockey]

This is nothing new, when Pavel Bure scored his 60 goal season 10 of them were into an empty net and no one cried about his numbers being skewed.

Only because HFBoards didn’t exist yet.

 

[Three On Zero]

Only because HFBoards didn’t exist yet.

Not sure what makes me feel older, Bure scoring 60 in ‘94 or HF coming around in 2000

 

[tarheelhockey]

Not sure what makes me feel older, Bure scoring 60 in ‘94 or HF coming around in 2000

I actually had to double-check his stats when making that comment because I mentally round Bure’s ‘00 and ‘01 up to 60 goals, but he never actually hit that number after ‘94.

(Of course, scoring 58 in 2000 had the value of scoring like 70 in ‘94)

I REALLY wish HF had been around and archived in the early 90s. That would have been loads of fun.

 

[Three On Zero]

I actually had to double-check his stats when making that comment because I mentally round Bure’s ‘00 and ‘01 up to 60 goals, but he never actually hit that number after ‘94.

(Of course, scoring 58 in 2000 had the value of scoring like 70 in ‘94)

I REALLY wish HF had been around and archived in the early 90s. That would have been loads of fun.

Yeah, I just wish I hadn’t forgot about my original account from the way back. Back when you needed an invite to join the forum

 

[Peltz]

Sure, that makes a lot of sense analytically and there’s little doubt pulling the goalie earlier statistically improves a team’s chances of winning. But is it good for the integrity of the sport I wonder?

There is absolutely nothing at stake here with hockey's integrity by pulling the goalie early.

 

[Peltz]

Unpopular opinion: ENG shouldn't have any more value to a player's stat sheet than shootout goals.

I don't like this. They're real goals. When one team pulls the goalie, the odds of EITHER team scoring increases. If a 6 on 5 goal counts the same statistically, one way, then it should count the same the other way too.

Shootout goals are totally different.

 

[Three On Zero]

I’d rather see secondary assists go away before ENG goals.

 

[JPeeper]

Sure, that makes a lot of sense analytically and there’s little doubt pulling the goalie earlier statistically improves a team’s chances of winning. But is it good for the integrity of the sport I wonder?

Teams doing whatever it takes to win is now not good for the integrity of the game? I don't see it that way. The only argument(s) that could be made for the integrity of the game going down is 3 on 3 OT and a shootout. As someone who isn't even against them in the first place I think they're objectively stupid ways to end a professional game, they're skill competitions.

The NBA and MLB (gross) are the only two leagues where I think have perfect OT rules, NBA just adds some time and you play, MLB is the same but with now a runner so an already boring AF game actually ends in a reasonable time. NFL OT rules are stupid.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Next player who completes a hat trick with an ENG should get a 5 game suspension

 

[Crosby2010]

Al Iafrate had an opinion of the types of people who get empty netters

 

[Jumptheshark]

You all should have seen empty net goals in the 80s

Next player who completes a hat trick with an ENG should get a 5 game suspension

Or banned for life

 

[PaulD]

Most teams are pulling goalies with around 2 minutes left nowadays because analytics told that's the way if you want to change something. Naturally, if you are going to play with an empty net twice as long, opponents will score into it many more times. Not to mention that last minutes used to be given to "shutdown lines" to handle on the defensive side of things who would just get the puck out of the zone and change, shooting at an empty net was almost taboo. While now we often see top guys on the ice whose primary focus is to get that empty netter which ends the game.

Yup. That's why EN goals are up. Hasn't been a mystery.

But yea players are padding their stats with them.
Add them to players over all stats.....as pp goals, short handed goals, game winning goals .

Al Iafrate had an opinion of the types of people who get empty netters

 

[MoneyManny]

I don't like this. They're real goals. When one team pulls the goalie, the odds of EITHER team scoring increases. If a 6 on 5 goal counts the same statistically, one way, then it should count the same the other way too.

Shootout goals are totally different.

I dunno, i feel like tossing the puck from the blue line nonchalantly in an empty net isn't really worthy of a +1 goal in the player's stat sheet.

It's also heavily influenced by the number of times the team is leading late in the 3rd.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Unpopular opinion: ENG shouldn't have any more value to a player's stat sheet than shootout goals.

Same

 

[Oilslick941611]

It’s the nhl version of a 60 yard field goal

 

[Three On Zero]

Next player who completes a hat trick with an ENG should get a 5 game suspension

I say they get a custom HF thread title header

 

[CaptBrannigan]

Disagree about ENG not counting on personal stats. If you did that you’d have to remove goals that the scorer has even less agency over, like cross crease passes that were never on net that defensemen direct in, goals deflected by a scorer where it hits them and they have no intent to do so, the rare puck passed into your own net when a goalie goes to the bench on a delayed penalty, etc. All of those are less deserved than most ENGs.

 

[MadLuke]

This is nothing new, when Pavel Bure scored his 60 goal season 10 of them were into an empty net and no one cried about his numbers being skewed.

I think it depends, from memory some scorer like Brett Hull did complain about other people scoring empty netter, either directly or by pointing out that they did not:

Joe Sakic shares awesome story about Brett Hull refusing to score an empty-netter, and we can't stop laughing

Joe Sakic shares awesome story on Brett Hull

www.thehockeybeast.com

”I do remember when I was in Quebec and he was in St. Louis, it was one of his 80-goal years,” Sakic said. ”We were on the ice, and we pull our goalie. There’s a D-man that fires it off the glass and he’s basically got a two-on-one empty net. Then he circles back, throws it back to the defenseman. I was like, ’What is going on?’ So I asked him on the ice after the game, and he said that he would’ve score, but since the D-man threw it off the glass to him, he said, ’I’m not giving the D a cheap assist for throwing it off the glass.’”

He scored only 11 of his 700 something's goals empty netter.

I imagine it always existed among some, it is a bit petty and make it soundlike you care way too much about numbers and not at all about your team winning, so they keep it more on the down low.

 

[Dirty Dan]

Its true, even goalies and defensive defenceman are practicing their shots from long range to get the numbers up

 

[MadLuke]

Its true, even goalies and defensive defenceman are practicing their shots from long range to get the numbers up

And also winning the hockey game, it is an important play with a giant swing in winning chance for the team that score (if it is not the very last second and considering how early they get them out and the consequence of missing the net if it is not a pk...)

 

[DitchMarner]

I definitely think so. But it also seems like teams often pull the goalie when down by two or three (sometimes even more) goals nowadays. Was this always the case?

Example: Last night the Bruins were trailing the Leafs 3-0 and pulled their goalie with about 4:00 left. TOR scored another goal immediately. It seems situations like this (in the RS) are more common than they were 10-15 years ago.

 

[Toby91ca]

So ? Pavel Bure had like 10 every season

At least make a statement that is close to accurate. He had 9 one year but his career average is 2. Other than the year he had 9, his high is 4. He had 0 or 1 in 6 of his 12 year career.

 

[JMCx4]

Sure, that makes a lot of sense analytically and there’s little doubt pulling the goalie earlier statistically improves a team’s chances of winning. But is it good for the integrity of the sport I wonder? ...

Integrity in the NHL left the ice decades ago. Stick with your stats.