Emphasis on drafting speed and skill paying off for New York Rangers

[offdacrossbar]

Fowler doesn't address any of the needs of this team, so no... I wouldn't trade DZ for Fowler straight up. He would be in exactly the same situation that DZ is in... stuck behind Staal and McDonagh and not getting the kind of ice time he needs to be successful.

if you watch any ducks games you would not think that way.

hes a ...

better pp qb
better skater.
better shooter
better with the puck
equal or better passer
no worse defensively
more productive
plays more minutes

and is not on the trade block nor a healthy scratch

he would be playing solid minutes for us right now and running our pp point.

 

[Inferno]

are we comparing MDZ to Fowler here or Fowler to Mcilrath...i'm confused.

 

[Thirty One]

I believe Fowler plays the right side...?

Anaheim has never had a RHD in their team's history.

 

[Tawnos]

if you watch any ducks games you would not think that way.

hes a ...

better pp qb
better skater.
better shooter
better with the puck
equal or better passer
no worse defensively
more productive
plays more minutes

and is not on the trade block nor a healthy scratch

he would be playing solid minutes for us right now and running our pp point.

Did you even read my post? It isn't about the comparison to DZ. He still wouldn't be ahead of McDonagh or Staal. Possibly on the powerplay, but other than that... he'd be a 3rd pair defenseman at ES, possibly playing out of position as well. You don't know that he'd be all those things on our roster. Our defensive corps is better than Anaheim's is, as a whole. Fowler only addresses one need of ours for 2-3 minutes of the 20 or so minutes available to give him. It wouldn't be a good trade for us in the context of the group we have.

 

[NYR Viper]

wut.

With the draft, it's always about opportunity cost. What the players who were drafted around him are doing is very relevant in evaluating the pick itself. He's the highest pick the Rangers have had in 9 seasons, it's not like he's a mid-round pick.

Agreed, but it is too early to call him a bad pick.

yep, agreed, but i think most people would also agree its FAR too early to make blanket statements like what a terrible pick it is, at least not for another year or 2.

McIlrath *should* be NHL ready by then, and we'll see what we have.

It's like the people killing the Kreider pick...till he got sent down all it was was a terrible pick and what a bust he was...now, hes playing like a first liner. probably too early to jump to any conclusions on McIlrath. Just as it is on the flip side for Tarasenko, Fowler, etc.

Exactly.

if you watch any ducks games you would not think that way.

hes a ...

better pp qb
better skater.
better shooter
better with the puck
equal or better passer
no worse defensively
more productive
plays more minutes

and is not on the trade block nor a healthy scratch

he would be playing solid minutes for us right now and running our pp point.

He's also extremely weak on the puck and passive in front of the net.

 

[McRanger]

If Fowler was a righty he might be a Ranger.

Personally I thought the Rangers should have drafted a forward. The Rangers needed and need more scoring up front, and they've drafted far too few forwards in the 1st round.

That said, the Rangers needed and need quality right D. Especially with Sauer all but retired and with Girardi possibly headed towards free agency. The Rangers also needed and need more size and speed and grit.

The pick was unpopular. I, let just say, didn't much care for it. But to say the pick didn't or doesn't make sense is just not true.

 

[McRanger]

I believe Fowler plays the right side...?

Anaheim has never had a RHD in their team's history.

He does. He plays with Beauchemin when the latter is healthy. So far as I have seen.

 

[Trxjw]

With the draft, it's always about opportunity cost. What the players who were drafted around him are doing is very relevant in evaluating the pick itself. He's the highest pick the Rangers have had in 9 seasons, it's not like he's a mid-round pick.

I simply disagree. I've seen that discussion countless times about numerous players. Once you've drafted a guy, that's it. We saw Bogosian, Del Zotto and Schenn make the NHL before Alex Pietrangelo and Erik Karlsson, and look how that worked out? On draft day you make these comparisons, but beyond that, it's closer to apples and oranges than it is oranges to tangerines.

He's a 21 year old, project defender who is in his 4th year of post-draft development. Everyone knew this kid was a long way away from the NHL, and that was before he lost half a season to a knee injury. He's done nothing but progress in every aspect of his game, and yet all people can do is harp on the players taken around him. So far the only "evaluating" I've seen amongst these players is: "This guy is in the NHL scoring goals, and McIlrath was a bad pick because of it." There's a very clear distinction between "evaluating" and having an agenda. 95% of McIlrath discussion is the latter.

It's easy to play the opportunity cost game 3 years after the fact. The simple truth is that Fowler had tons of question marks, Tarasenko was a KHL risk, and Schwartz would have been a major reach at #10. Great that they're all NHLers right now, but that has no bearing on McIlrath whatsoever.

 

[Thirty One]

Agreed, but it is too early to call him a bad pick.

Agreed. I think absolute statements in general are a bad idea.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Pretty much sums it up.

listen and understand.

i made a decision on the pick immediately after we made it. bad pick.

what he becomes doesnt change my decision. irrelevant.

a bad pick is a bad pick. then and today.

there were better players available that made more sense for us and would have helped us sooner and fit our needs better. and i was right.

capice ?

 

[offdacrossbar]

Agreed, but it is too early to call him a bad pick.



Exactly.



He's also extremely weak on the puck and passive in front of the net.

and you are describing whom ?? del zotto or fowler

 

[Tawnos]

listen and understand.

i made a decision on the pick immediately after we made it. bad pick.

what he becomes doesnt change my decision. irrelevant.

a bad pick is a bad pick. then and today.

there were better players available that made more sense for us and would have helped us sooner and fit our needs better. and i was right.

capice ?

In other words, it was a bad pick, but despite that it could turn out well if McIlrath becomes a legitimate defenseman. Why make the distinction? It was a bad pick at the time. That doesn't make it a bad pick for all time.

 

[NYR Viper]

listen and understand.

i made a decision on the pick immediately after we made it. bad pick.

what he becomes doesnt change my decision. irrelevant.

a bad pick is a bad pick. then and today.

there were better players available that made more sense for us and would have helped us sooner and fit our needs better. and i was right.

capice ?

I just feel that the long-term development of the player is a better indicator than who can help right away.

and you are describing whom ?? del zotto or fowler

Zing

Although I think Del Zotto is MUCH more physical than Fowler.

I still don't like him...

 

[Trxjw]

listen and understand.

i made a decision on the pick immediately after we made it. bad pick.

what he becomes doesnt change my decision. irrelevant.

a bad pick is a bad pick. then and today.

there were better players available that made more sense for us and would have helped us sooner and fit our needs better. and i was right.

capice ?

Sorry, I gave up listening to you on this topic, ODC. Every pick is a "bad pick" until the player makes the NHL. We need goals, but we also need right-handed defenders. We need aggression in the lineup that can actually skate regular minutes.

You can stand on your soap-box and preach "bad pick" until your lungs give out, but it's premature ego-stroking and nothing more.

 

[Thirty One]

I simply disagree. I've seen that discussion countless times about numerous players. Once you've drafted a guy, that's it. We saw Bogosian, Del Zotto and Schenn make the NHL before Alex Pietrangelo and Erik Karlsson, and look how that worked out? On draft day you make these comparisons, but beyond that, it's closer to apples and oranges than it is oranges to tangerines.

He's a 21 year old, project defender who is in his 4th year of post-draft development. Everyone knew this kid was a long way away from the NHL, and that was before he lost half a season to a knee injury. He's done nothing but progress in every aspect of his game, and yet all people can do is harp on the players taken around him. So far the only "evaluating" I've seen amongst these players is: "This guy is in the NHL scoring goals, and McIlrath was a bad pick because of it." There's a very clear distinction between "evaluating" and having an agenda. 95% of McIlrath discussion is the latter.

I'd argue the 95% rule extends to pretty much any HF boards discussions.

I don't think that because a player is a bit of a project you can't do any sort of evaluation along the way. Of course it's not as black and white as "he's in the NHL, and he isn't nah-nah-nah-nah", though.

You lost me on the produce analogy, though

 

[jniklast]

and you are describing whom ?? del zotto or fowler

Exactly, there's no point trading one for the other.

 

[NYR Viper]

On a completely separate note, I was very happy they were able to add Kristo to the prospect pool and am high on both he and Fast as skilled wingers.

They need to grab a skilled forward in this years draft, however they seem to have very good luck in drafting big d-men who can move and hopefully can maximize some of those assets before they leave (Girardi, Del Zotto).

 

[Trxjw]

I'd argue the 95% rule extends to pretty much any HF boards discussions.

I don't think that because a player is a bit of a project you can't do any sort of evaluation along the way. Of course it's not as black and white as "he's in the NHL, and he isn't nah-nah-nah-nah", though.

You lost me on the produce analogy, though

I welcome analysis and evaluation, but stacking a player up against another prospect isn't evaluation. Especially when you're doing it with the sole purpose of discrediting one of them.

 

[Sojourn]

He does. He plays with Beauchemin when the latter is healthy. So far as I have seen.

Fowler never plays with Beauchemin.

Cam plays with Lovejoy, and the two of them make up our top pairing, with the heaviest D responsibilities. By far.

With all due respect, it seems most people here don't have a clue what kind of player Fowler has turned into.

 

[Thirty One]

Actually, Fowler has played mostly this season with Ben Lovejoy, the Ducks only RHD in team history.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Exactly, there's no point trading one for the other.

not correct.

while both are soft physically, they are NOT similar in the other areas i highlighted in a prior post. in nearly every skill, fowler is better and considerably so. fowlers offensive skills trump del zottos.

and when you stack it up, fowler is the better overall player. by alot.

if you watch ducks games this year, hes a very impressive player. del zotto not so much.

again, would ducks fan make that trade ? definitely not.

 

[aufheben]

wut.

McI hasn't even played for us yet, jesus.

 

[JimmyG89]

Actually, Fowler has played mostly this season with Ben Lovejoy, the Ducks only RHD in team history.

Team history? Is that seriously true?

 

[Thirty One]

Team history? Is that seriously true?

No. It's an exaggeration for effect.

The are always loaded with LHDs.

 

[McRanger]

Fowler never plays with Beauchemin.

Cam plays with Lovejoy, and the two of them make up our top pairing, with the heaviest D responsibilities. By far.

With all due respect, it seems most people here don't have a clue what kind of player Fowler has turned into.

When I saw him he was playing with Beuch towards the end of last season. Souray was playing with Lovejoy IIRC. I know Beuch and Souray played a lot together before that.

Though I'm guessing you would know better.