Music: Eminem - Kamikaze

Mach85

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In what universe is it pendantic? If you’re going to say a guy can’t make a hit song, you should make sure you’ve got a song bigger than his in the last like 5 years.

It’s not, because you’re saying it has no impact whatsoever. Delivery matters. The confidence behind the words in hit em up, the anger behind no vaseline. They’re things that impact the words being said. You keep trying to act like I’m only talking about the beat, and don’t acknowledge that I’m taking about other things like the flow. Killshot is strong lyrically with a weak concept and delivery imo.



Again, I’m not just referencing the beat.



Please lol. I understand it all. It’s not some deep piece that takes years to understand. You basically just posted all the lyrics in the song. I’ve read them already. I didn’t even know what you were trying to accomplish there. And the Shady shadow line is exactly the type of thing I’m talking about. It’s a clever line. But it’s saying I’m so big you’re going to always be in my shadow. If you’re going for a Killshot, you’ve gotta be able to reference something better than you’re not as big as me.



I didn’t say that. But you keep throwing that out there for some reason. I’ve also never said a beat wins a diss war. Where are you even getting this from? I said it’s a better song. Not a better diss. Killshot is the one to beat right now. The bad take is yours.



There are parts that don’t, but the bulk of the song is. Go back and relisten to it. I’m not saying what he wrote isn’t good. It is. It’s fantastic. But the content is centered around something that isn’t really an insult.

“Dad isn’t mad”

“But you're a ****in' mole hill
Now I'ma make a mountain out of you”

“Got more fans than you in your own city, lil' kiddy, go play“

They’re great lines, but they’re not lines that end a battle. MGK went way more savage with his content. Em did it better. Em could have ended things, but didn’t. If you’re going to take 2 weeks to respond to something that came out in 3 days, can’t you come up with a better idea to go after him with than saying you’re more popular? Yes, he addresses most of Rap Devil, and does it creatively, but he does it with words that don’t have a lot of sting. If you want to bury him, go after him. Don’t go after his sales figures.



What? No it doesn’t. It boils down to “you’re an upperclass white dude. Quit acting like you’re a thug”. Rap Devil beats not alike. Killshot beats Rap Devil. We’ll see if MGK can step it up now.
Lol it's the definition of pedantic. I'm starting to see why you didn't get the diss. Igonoring the whole product to pick out a couple lines and take them too literally is completely pedantic. I explained the purpose of the bar previously, how it's not meant to be taken literal and it's about disrespect. I won't repeat myself. I've already admitted when I was wrong in this discussion, you have a hard time doing so even when you're objectively wrong like on this pedantic point you've chosen as a hill to die on for whatever reason.

How was MGK more savage? List bars. He told him he was gonnna kill him in the same breath as calling him the GOAT? Em literally addressed that in his response. And Em is currently doing an album rollout, and Mac Miller just died. Dropping a diss track while the hiphop community is mourning is not a good look. Mr. Porter hinted that Em was gonna drop last week until Mac died. Also, Ether, that track you referenced as so great. Guess what? Nas took SIX MONTHS to come back with that. Dude, you gotta brush up on your hip hop history. You don't seem to know what a diss track is for and think catchiness matters, and your knowledge of diss track history is obviously flawed.

You're also saying Rap Devil beats Not Alike....lol. Not Alike is an album cut, it's not a diss track. He had a couple bars in it for Kelly. Not exactly a fair comparison, but whatever makes you think your second fave rapper is decent. And Em's bars in Not Alike were waaay more complex and hard-hitting than any MGK had in Rap Devil. Don't agree? Name some in Rap Devil, which you still haven't done.

The shady-shadow line was one line among many. You're making it look like that's the only thing he said. Several others have called you out on your horrible take on saying the only thing he said was that he's bigger than MGK. You can read the lyrics but it doesn't mean you understand them. Good job picking out 1/4 of bars to make them sound weaker, or leaving out the less impactful ones tho, and saying MGK was savage but giving no examples lol.

You're the one who referenced the beat to knock Killshot. The rest of us are saying the beat doesn't matter in a diss. It's immaterial. Why wouldn't I address it when you literally quoted me to tell me the beat matters in a diss track? I don't know why you're trying to spin the narrative here and evaluating the two tracks as songs, when that was never their purpose. They're not trying to chart, they're trying to get at each other. Ask yourself that when you're telling yourself you're being objective. It's like evaluating someone's horror movie in the category "scariest movie of the year" and saying "his movie was funnier so his movie was better." Yes, movies when made for entertainment purposes, i.e., to sell or to chart, are made differently. ie. for mass appeal, than a movie that's made for a specific purpose. Same thing for a diss track that's made for a specific purpose: to lyrically destroy your opponent. Someone bringing up the beat or how good it is as an overall song in order to tear it down quite obviously has ulterior motives or just doesn't know hiphop. Your choice on which one it is.

And you haven't really talked much about the flow, but Em has him beat there. He used like 5 different flows in his track whereas MGK used the same simple flow throughout. That's not a minus for MGK, he's just punching above his weight class. Again, in the purpose of a diss track, which is to determine who's the better rapper by embarrassing the other rapper in a display of skills, that's a clear win for Em.
 

CartographerNo611

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Just on personal attacks, MGK won hands down. Love Eminem but he fell back on his money and reputation way too much while dissing non MGK people lol.

Eminem was in a different universe with word play and flow though. MGK ain't got nothing on Eminem when comes to sounding good, well when Eminem decides to sound good. Give the edge to Eminem on actually pleasing the ear. Eminem is the better rapper hands down.

Nice little beef, 2018 is what hip hop sorely needed.
 
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King Mapes

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Lol has Eminem ever dissed a good rapper? Hes always going at people who have no chance of winning against him and I dont even think of him that highly.
He's friends with many top rappers. But he's beefed with Ja, Benzino, Canibus, Limp Bizkit. These aren't exactly no name rappers.

so leave my dick in your mouth, and keep my daughter out it.

It's not the best beat but still way better than Rap Devil, which was basically MGK saying 'you're old and have a weird beard'
The weird beard line is a play off the song "Business". That went over most people's heads. But that line was killer that you quoted up top.
 

Mach85

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Yo Mach85, what kind of music do you listen to usually?
Honestly, I listen to everything. If we're talking rap, Em got me into it so he's my fave. But I listen to most artists in hip hop. My album of the year is Daytona, so I do gravitate to the older style. Cole and Kendrick are obviously faves then too. Joey Badass since he's a boom bap throwback. Royce is the most underrated in the game IMO. I like Freddie Gibbs too.

I do like newer artists too though. I thought Astroworld was quite good, a nice redemption from Birds in the Trap. I was disappointed in that one after Rodeo. I can't say I'm a 6ix9ine fan, but Gummo slaps. And his singles I'll listen to in the whip or at the gym. Big A$AP fan, altho Testing was a disappointment. Brockhampton is tight. Vince Staples is nice. I try to give everyone a chance. Except Russ bc he just seems like such an insufferable prick lol.
 

RickP

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The weird beard line is a play off the song "Business". That went over most people's heads.

I know a lot of MGK fans said that, but to me that's such a reach. Eminem said "until we grow beards, get weird and disappear" in the song "Business". He never mentionned anything about a weird beard, he just used the words "weird" and "beard" in a line, because they rhyme.

If MGK wanted to play off "Business", he would have said something like "you grew a beard and got weird, so you can disappear now" or something like that (I know that was really weak, it's just an example lol). That would have made sense.
 

King Mapes

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I know a lot of MGK fans said that, but to me that's such a reach. Eminem said "until we grow beards, get weird and disappear" in the song "Business". He never mentionned anything about a weird beard, he just used the words "weird" and "beard" in a line, because they rhyme.

If MGK wanted to play off "Business", he would have said something like "you grew a beard and got weird, so you can disappear now" or something like that (I know that was really weak, it's just an example lol). That would have made sense.
I duno, his whole diss track was about Em being old, how Ems the GOAT and making plays off old tracks.
 

YNWA14

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Yeah I'm really confused. How did MGK win on personal attacks? He was literally complimenting Em every other line. What personal attacks did he make? His age? His appearance? When he called him oscar the grouch? Lol

Em's was instantly more personal when he compared MGK to Stan and brought up Hallsey (and that's just the tip).
 

King Mapes

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Which brings me to my next point. Rap Devil was a good song but not a good diss track. The Oscar the grouch line was solid but it's making fun of the fact Em still won an oscar without even thinking he would because he was asleep on his couch rather than being there for it. The guy without even putting the effort in wins awards. He also says "you're the greatest rapper alive". True. But why put that in a diss track?

I also call BS on him making that song and video in 3 days. Guarantee you he already had some material since he had already come at Em a few times and knew there's a chance Em fires at him.
 
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The Nuge

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Lol it's the definition of pedantic. I'm starting to see why you didn't get the diss

Ya. I’m done with this cyclical argument you’re having. Try debating the point without getting so personal. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, it doesn’t mean they don’t “get it”.

Agree to dissagree on the impact of the delivery I guess.

You like it. I think he could have done better if he approached it differently. Time to move on.

I know a lot of MGK fans said that, but to me that's such a reach. Eminem said "until we grow beards, get weird and disappear" in the song "Business". He never mentionned anything about a weird beard, he just used the words "weird" and "beard" in a line, because they rhyme.

If MGK wanted to play off "Business", he would have said something like "you grew a beard and got weird, so you can disappear now" or something like that (I know that was really weak, it's just an example lol). That would have made sense.

I disagree. Most of Rap Devil was playing off of something Em did, and sometimes things just don’t work unless you change it up.
 

RickP

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I disagree. Most of Rap Devil was playing off of something Em did, and sometimes things just don’t work unless you change it up.

Yeah of course, but that weird beard line was weak. It's no big deal, every song has weak lines. But MGK fans tried to flip it and make it look like he was a genius for making a reference to "Business" with that line. I'm not even sure that's what MGK wanted to do. And even if that's what he was trying to do, well, that was very weak.
 

The Nuge

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Yeah of course, but that weird beard line was weak. It's no big deal, every song has weak lines. But MGK fans tried to flip it and make it look like he was a genius for making a reference to "Business" with that line. I'm not even sure that's what MGK wanted to do. And even if that's what he was trying to do, well, that was very weak.

Ya I’d agree with that. It’s by no means one of his stronger lines. I still think he deserves props though for being able to tie so many of Em’s songs in, even if some were a bit weak.

It’s a pretty unique beef in that Em went after a fan, so the guy he’s beefing with knows everything he’s ever put out
 

M.C.G. 31

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In what universe is it pendantic? If you’re going to say a guy can’t make a hit song, you should make sure you’ve got a song bigger than his in the last like 5 years.

It’s not, because you’re saying it has no impact whatsoever. Delivery matters. The confidence behind the words in hit em up, the anger behind no vaseline. They’re things that impact the words being said. You keep trying to act like I’m only talking about the beat, and don’t acknowledge that I’m taking about other things like the flow. Killshot is strong lyrically with a weak concept and delivery imo.



Again, I’m not just referencing the beat.



Please lol. I understand it all. It’s not some deep piece that takes years to understand. You basically just posted all the lyrics in the song. I’ve read them already. I didn’t even know what you were trying to accomplish there. And the Shady shadow line is exactly the type of thing I’m talking about. It’s a clever line. But it’s saying I’m so big you’re going to always be in my shadow. If you’re going for a Killshot, you’ve gotta be able to reference something better than you’re not as big as me.



I didn’t say that. But you keep throwing that out there for some reason. I’ve also never said a beat wins a diss war. Where are you even getting this from? I said it’s a better song. Not a better diss. Killshot is the one to beat right now. The bad take is yours.



There are parts that don’t, but the bulk of the song is. Go back and relisten to it. I’m not saying what he wrote isn’t good. It is. It’s fantastic. But the content is centered around something that isn’t really an insult.

“Dad isn’t mad”

“But you're a ****in' mole hill
Now I'ma make a mountain out of you”

“Got more fans than you in your own city, lil' kiddy, go play“

They’re great lines, but they’re not lines that end a battle. MGK went way more savage with his content. Em did it better. Em could have ended things, but didn’t. If you’re going to take 2 weeks to respond to something that came out in 3 days, can’t you come up with a better idea to go after him with than saying you’re more popular? Yes, he addresses most of Rap Devil, and does it creatively, but he does it with words that don’t have a lot of sting. If you want to bury him, go after him. Don’t go after his sales figures.



What? No it doesn’t. It boils down to “you’re an upperclass white dude. Quit acting like you’re a thug”. Rap Devil beats not alike. Killshot beats Rap Devil. We’ll see if MGK can step it up now.
(Quoting the whole thing cause I’m on mobile)

You’re oversimplifying and choosing lines. The ones you mentioned don’t end battles, but lines like:

“Had to give you a career just to end it” and “you could f*** Kim in my flannel, give you my sandals, cause as long as I’m shady you’ll always be living in my shadow” can and will on rappers like MGK who aren’t anywhere near Em’s level. Not only that, but they EASILY end battles when it’s going against someone who escalated the beef by releasing a diss track that has half of it complimenting Em and calling him the GOAT.

It’s no wonder Em was having fun with it and didn’t even sound as angry. MGK did the work for him. Em ended it in the first 30 seconds by using MGK’s contradictions against him and throwing it back at him. That’s why this has turned into “MGK has a better beat.” Okay and? That doesn’t matter as much as actual lyrical content and shots in a diss.

I’m still baffled at how anyone can give MGK the edge. People really be all in on hating anything Em in 2018. Not saying this part about you, personally, Nuge, but it’s ridiculous.

As for your post directly above this one, it is unique that it’s against a fan because the fan is dumb enough to call Em the GOAT in his diss and make it really easy for Em. We know he’s the GOAT, or one of them. Don’t put that in your diss track. That’s just making it easy for Em.
 
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RickP

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Ya I’d agree with that. It’s by no means one of his stronger lines. I still think he deserves props though for being able to tie so many of Em’s songs in, even if some were a bit weak.

It’s a pretty unique beef in that Em went after a fan, so the guy he’s beefing with knows everything he’s ever put out

Yeah definately. At first I didn't think Em should respond, like what the hell is he going to talk about? MGK knows everything about Eminem, and Eminem doesn't know much about him.

But he decided to completely flip the "Rap Devil" lines on him, and on top of that, he hit him with straight facts. Eminem doesn't really have any "dirt" on him, but the facts are enough to destroy him. One of my favorite line was:

"You said you got me in the scope, but you grazed me,
I say "one call to Interscope and you're Swayze"!


That's genius, and it's just a simple fact. If Eminem ever got tired of MGK running his mouth, he could just litterally call Interscope and tell them to drop this guy, or else he'll just leave them and drop music on his own or something. Interscope would never choose MGK over Eminem. I'm not saying Eminem will do that, but he litterally has the power to do it. So MGK can act tough all he wants and say he's got Eminem "in his scope", but we all know who's in a position of power.

Em even managed to send a huge warning shot at Diddy. Like "Ok Diddy, I'm not mad at you, but you did let your boy pull that stunt. I'm not mad.... But... Don't do it again..." :laugh:
 

M.C.G. 31

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Yeah definately. At first I didn't think Em should respond, like what the hell is he going to talk about? MGK knows everything about Eminem, and Eminem doesn't know much about him.

But he decided to completely flip the "Rap Devil" lines on him, and on top of that, he hit him with straight facts. Eminem doesn't really have any "dirt" on him, but the facts are enough to destroy him. One of my favorite line was:

"You said you got me in the scope, but you grazed me,
I say "one call to Interscope and you're Swayze"!


That's genius, and it's just a simple fact. If Eminem ever got tired of MGK running his mouth, he could just litterally call Interscope and tell them to drop this guy, or else he'll just leave them and drop music on his own or something. Interscope would never choose MGK over Eminem. I'm not saying Eminem will do that, but he litterally has the power to do it. So MGK can act tough all he wants and say he's got Eminem "in his scope", but we all know who's in a position of power.

Em even managed to send a huge warning shot at Diddy. Like "Ok Diddy, I'm not mad at you, but you did let your boy pull that stunt. I'm not mad.... But... Don't do it again..." :laugh:
Yeah I think that Diddy line was a warning shot to keep MGK in check. It was mentioned earlier but I wouldn’t be surprised if Em has dirt on Diddy that Push had on Drake. Em is way too connected to not have dirt.
 

Mach85

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Ya. I’m done with this cyclical argument you’re having. Try debating the point without getting so personal. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, it doesn’t mean they don’t “get it”.

Agree to dissagree on the impact of the delivery I guess.

You like it. I think he could have done better if he approached it differently. Time to move on.
It's a frustrating conversation when your argument is getting strawmanned and points are being used against you that you didn't make. If I got a little ad-hominem-y, it was out of that frustration (and maybe because I've been listening to diss tracks lol). But we can agree that our debate seems to be going nowhere now and should end here with an agreement to disagree. At least we got to witness a pretty exciting period for hip hop. We're all winners there.
 
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RickP

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Yeah I think that Diddy line was a warning shot to keep MGK in check. It was mentioned earlier but I wouldn’t be surprised if Em has dirt on Diddy that Push had on Drake. Em is way too connected to not have dirt.

Yeah I'd be curious to know how Diddy feels about this whole thing. Will he just tell MGK to stop going at Em, because he's making everybody look bad? Or will he tell MGK to go harder because he's mad about what Em said in Killshot?
 

Mach85

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Yeah definately. At first I didn't think Em should respond, like what the hell is he going to talk about? MGK knows everything about Eminem, and Eminem doesn't know much about him.

But he decided to completely flip the "Rap Devil" lines on him, and on top of that, he hit him with straight facts. Eminem doesn't really have any "dirt" on him, but the facts are enough to destroy him. One of my favorite line was:

"You said you got me in the scope, but you grazed me,
I say "one call to Interscope and you're Swayze"!


That's genius, and it's just a simple fact. If Eminem ever got tired of MGK running his mouth, he could just litterally call Interscope and tell them to drop this guy, or else he'll just leave them and drop music on his own or something. Interscope would never choose MGK over Eminem. I'm not saying Eminem will do that, but he litterally has the power to do it. So MGK can act tough all he wants and say he's got Eminem "in his scope", but we all know who's in a position of power.

Em even managed to send a huge warning shot at Diddy. Like "Ok Diddy, I'm not mad at you, but you did let your boy pull that stunt. I'm not mad.... But... Don't do it again..." :laugh:

Such a clever line. And I thought the same thing about Em responding, and I think he wasn't going to because he knew MGK was just clout chasing most likely, but when he saw Rap Devil did so many views (because of who it was about, no doubt), he decided to get back in the ring and show people what's what. It was easy work and he acted like it, but still put enough into it to decisively get the W.
 

M.C.G. 31

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Lol of course MGK advertises his EP coming next week after tweeting about the response that it took two weeks and three interviews.

Dumbass he straight up said in the interview the only reason he was weighing his options was cause he didn’t wanna give MGK any relevancy.
 

Mach85

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Lol of course MGK advertises his EP coming next week after tweeting about the response that it took two weeks and three interviews.

Dumbass he straight up said in the interview the only reason he was weighing his options was cause he didn’t wanna give MGK any relevancy.
Also, that interview was clearly one long one that was broadcast in parts. This MGK lad ain't good with numbers it seems...
 

The Nuge

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The ones you mentioned don’t end battles, but lines like:

“Had to give you a career just to end it” and “you could **** Kim in my flannel, give you my sandals, cause as long as I’m shady you’ll always be living in my shadow” can and will on rappers like MGK who aren’t anywhere near Em’s level

Just to make things clear. I’m not saying MGK won because he had the better beat. I’m not even saying MGK won. I’m saying MGK had the better song, but Em had the better diss. I’m getting rather sick of typing this over and over, so hopefully this is clear to everyone (not just aimed at you).

In regards to that line. I don’t agree that that’s a line that ends battles. You can say it’s oversimplifying it, but at the core of the diss, it is still just “I’m a bigger name than you”. That just isn’t that much of an insult. It’s a line that is well written and makes you go “oh damn”, but it’s easy to shrug off. You can respond to that. It isn’t getting personal. It’s a line that could be said to any rapper, and just happens to be responding to MGK. If you want to bury someone, you have to give them something about them that they can’t respond to.

In regards to the comment about ending it in 30 seconds, I don’t agree because it’s a weak first ~15 seconds. The part that kills it for me is the intro after what he’s responding to. In a vacuum it’s a solid response, but he’s mimicking MGK at the start to belittle him, despite the fact that the song he’s responding to had the line

“But you're just a bully actin' like a baby
So I gotta read you a nursery“

His first response to getting called a baby is to act like a child, and that weakens the impact of the words imo. Cut out the first like 15 seconds or whatever, and the Rihanna to Starter Cap part is sick though.
 

The Nuge

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Yeah definately. At first I didn't think Em should respond, like what the hell is he going to talk about? MGK knows everything about Eminem, and Eminem doesn't know much about him.

But he decided to completely flip the "Rap Devil" lines on him, and on top of that, he hit him with straight facts. Eminem doesn't really have any "dirt" on him, but the facts are enough to destroy him. One of my favorite line was:

"You said you got me in the scope, but you grazed me,
I say "one call to Interscope and you're Swayze"!


That's genius, and it's just a simple fact. If Eminem ever got tired of MGK running his mouth, he could just litterally call Interscope and tell them to drop this guy, or else he'll just leave them and drop music on his own or something. Interscope would never choose MGK over Eminem. I'm not saying Eminem will do that, but he litterally has the power to do it. So MGK can act tough all he wants and say he's got Eminem "in his scope", but we all know who's in a position of power.

Em even managed to send a huge warning shot at Diddy. Like "Ok Diddy, I'm not mad at you, but you did let your boy pull that stunt. I'm not mad.... But... Don't do it again..." :laugh:

It’s proof of how good Em is. As I’ve said, to me it’s not a “killshot” because it’s not personal enough, but it’s pretty damn impressive as a whole for not really knowing much about the guy

At least we got to witness a pretty exciting period for hip hop. We're all winners there.

Ain’t that the truth. It’s been a long time since there’s been any beef worth discussing this much
 
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Dubi Doo

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The Nuge

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