EMERGENCY FAN MEETING: The Senators are Soft, Broken, and Have No Identity - Here's My Fix. Share Yours.

[Tuna99]

I feel like Green is honest with them. They just lack pretty much any form of confidence.

Oraganization overall has a lack of killer instinct since Andlauer took over. It seems like they want to make eveyone happy and be a nice team, support everything, they should have fired Dorion and DJ Smith the second the ink dried on the sale and they should yell at the players who forecheck like it’s women’s hockey.


Still feels like a country club to me, No Killer Instinct anywhere on this team from the ice surface to the owners box.

 

[Blotto71]

I keep seeing people repeat this. Who in the guys who are locked in long term was a bad choice? Stutzle, Sanderson, Batherson, Tkachuk, Norris, Pinto, Chabot, Zub. To say the roster was constructed badly, you'd be implying many of these names were not the right choices.

Norris and Chabot. And not necessarily "bad choices", but rather unrealistic expectations. Both are decent players that are, or have been, asked to play above their capability to "earn" the contracts Dorion gave them. I don't dislike either, but Norris is a 3C that should see PP minutes, Chabot is a 3D that should see PP minutes. That Chabot is there now (and we see the improvement in hus game) is coming at the expense of Sanderson, who is no where near ready to be 1D. And I get it, Dorion was just trying lock guys up so they wouldn't leave or hold out the moment they hit RFA status so they could leave.

 

[Alex1234]

Some interesting numbers pre and post Phile game

Imagine being rattled by ONE period vs the Flyers
And saying you are tired of not making the PO lol
PO are for men

 

[Yak]

It's wild the op says Timmy's not physical. Dude's seemed like a different beast this year and seems to be using his body way more.

Timmy's not a physical player that's not his game. He is playing physical which you should be the last guy you rely on the play physical. That says a lot about the rest of the team he could. Not a lot of players though because they're not a lot of guys on this team that are even capable of playing physical. That is some roster construction issues for sure. I was talking with my buddy the other day about how great Timmy's physical play is. Talk about a guy trying to do everything he can to help the team win while the rest of the guys watch.

 

[Micklebot]

I keep seeing people repeat this. Who in the guys who are locked in long term was a bad choice? Stutzle, Sanderson, Batherson, Tkachuk, Norris, Pinto, Chabot, Zub. To say the roster was constructed badly, you'd be implying many of these names were not the right choices.

Norris and Chabot arguably got overpaid, and may have been better off being bridged, but that's a minor quibble imo

I think the issue is what surrounds these guys though,

-Hamonic and JBD are fringe 6th D,
-Perron and Amadio are ok players but maybe not the right fit (remains to be seen imo)
-Cousins, MacEwen Gregor are probably all best deployed as your 12/13th fwd

We currently lack the organizational depth to fill these roles internally, and that's because of a few poor trade outcomes, things like Some resulting in pretty much nothing at this point, the DBC and Chychrun acquisitions, ect.

I'm not as down on the core as some, to me, if Pinto and Ullmark were playing to their potential, that alone would really change our outlook. Add in Sanderson not looking like himself and you can see why we struggle. There's still lots of area for improvement, particularly with the right side D, but expectations for this year were to get a wild card spot.


We have 3 forwards in the top 34 in scoring, 4 in the top 96. That's well above average given anything above 96th would be top line production.

We have another two guys in the the top 150 (Norris at 116 and Gaudette at 147), again, that's above average when you add Giroux who is the top 96, since 2nd line production would be the top 97-192

Then it falls off, Greig, Cousins, Amadio and Pinto are all in the 3rd line range, but below the mid point.

On D, we have two guys in the top 40, so one above and one below average, plus Jensen who is technically in the tail end of top pair production at 65th

2nd pair level production, we have the afore mentioned Jensen,

then third pair level production we have JBD, Zub (missed a lot of games) and Hamonic,

It doesn't seem to be to top guys that aren't producing to expectations. Our issue is secondary scoring, we needed more out of Pinto, Perron has been out of the lineup, and we probably should have a bit more from Zub (also out of the lineup)

 

[BankStreetParade]

Norris and Chabot. And not necessarily "bad choices", but rather unrealistic expectations. Both are decent players that are, or have been, asked to play above their capability to "earn" the contracts Dorion gave them. I don't dislike either, but Norris is a 3C that should see PP minutes, Chabot is a 3D that should see PP minutes. That Chabot is there now (and we see the improvement in hus game) is coming at the expense of Sanderson, who is no where near ready to be 1D. And I get it, Dorion was just trying lock guys up so they wouldn't leave or hold out the moment they hit RFA status so they could leave.

Name any 3 third-line centers, 25yo or younger, who have a 35 goal season in their career...

 

[Micklebot]

Name any 3 third-line centers, 25yo or younger, who have a 35 goal season in their career...

While I'm not on board with calling Norris a third liner, I'm not sure how that's relevant.
He's clearly not the player he was prior to the shoulder injuries. Simlar to how Cheechoo had a 37 goal season three seasons prior to joining Ottawa, Norris having 35 three years ago only tells us what he was, not what he is.

Norris is currently in the lower end of ES pts for 2nd liners. I think he can produce more at ES, but has a similar rate tp he had last year, so it's not a given.

 

[BankStreetParade]

While I'm not on board with calling Norris a third liner, I'm not sure how that's relevant.
He's clearly not the player he was prior to the shoulder injuries. Simlar to how Cheechoo had a 37 goal season three seasons prior to joining Ottawa, Norris having 35 three years ago only tells us what he was, not what he is.

Norris is currently in the lower end of ES pts for 2nd liners. I think he can produce more at ES, but has a similar rate tp he had last year, so it's not a given.

Ok then let's name any 3Cs who are on pace for 30 goals this year? If that's a more direct comparison that needs to be made.

Also, this whole team has had trouble generating EV offense. Sanderson has 2 EVP, Pinto 1, Perron 0. It feels like there's some larger systemic issue that explains the relatively meager EV production.

 

[Yak]

The Senators Saga Continues: A Reality Check from a Passionate Fan

Let's face it, fellow Sens fans - we're all on the same page here. Our roster has more holes than Swiss cheese, and this "winning core" is about as winning as the Leafs in playoff Game 7's.

The Core Truth

We've reached that point where we need to admit what we've all been thinking: this core isn't cutting it. The chemistry these guys have seems better suited for a night out than a night on the ice. Sure, they're great at being buddies, but last time I checked, the NHL doesn't give points for best team TikTok.

The Trade Reality Check

Here's the thing about in-season trades - they're typically for teams actually competing for something other than draft lottery odds. While there are some desperate teams out there who might be willing to make a move, any significant trade is going to split the fanbase.

The Rebuild-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named

Nobody wants to say the R-word. We've been there, done that, got the therapy bills. But let's talk about "rebuilding on the fly" - it's like renovating your house while living in it. We don't need to tear it down to the foundation, but the walls definitely need work. Our defense is leakier than the Titanic (and about as mobile), and apart from one line, our forward group is as threatening as a puppy in a hockey helmet.

The Playoff Dream

Some of you still have playoff hopes. I also have hopes that Santa will bring me a fully functional Senators defense corps for Christmas. We all know both of these things are about as likely as the Leafs winning... well, anything important.

A New Mentality

Remember when the team talked about taking it one game at a time? Maybe we need to think even smaller. Take it shift by shift. Stop pacing yourselves, boys - at this rate, you'll be perfectly rested for your early April tee times.

Coaching Dreams

I'll admit, I'd make a terrible coach. I'd be in there channeling my inner WWE wrestler - kicking garbage cans, swinging hockey sticks like a Star Wars kid, and throwing pucks like ninja stars. I'd probably end up arrested for verbal assault, and I'm normally the kind of person who apologizes to furniture when I bump into it! Maybe Green should call his buddies Domi, Tucker, Carson, Roberts and Belak as assistant coaches to motivate this team....jk

(Sorry, couldn't resist. But hey, at least they've made the playoffs - their drought may be longer, but our drought is... well, infinite.)

Looking forward

The rearview mirror is getting crowded with all our "what-ifs" and "should-haves." The old regime is gone, and pointing fingers is about as useful as our team (ouch, too soon?). What matters now is fixing this puzzle where half the pieces seem to be from different boxes.

The Bottom Line

This is likely the last season for this core group as we know it. Major changes are coming, and while that might hurt like blocking a Shea Weber slapshot, it's necessary. We've got some good pieces here - they just belong to different puzzles. Time to find the right combination before we all need season tickets to therapy instead of hockey.

Remember fellow Sens fans, we've survived worse. Probably. Maybe. Okay, I'll get back to you on that one...we have suffered a lot......

I will take a win! It might be a band-aid for all our ailments but better than another kick in the teeth loss!

 

[Micklebot]

Ok then let's name any 3Cs who are on pace for 30 goals this year? If that's a more direct comparison that needs to be made.

Also, this whole team has had trouble generating EV offense. Sanderson has 2 EVP, Pinto 1, Perron 0. It feels like there's some larger systemic issue that explains the relatively meager EV production.

Again, the issue is his ES production, not PP. You might want to associate his ES production to the team and not himself, but he's 9th in pts/60 on the team (8th if you ignore Reinhardt) and 7th among forwards (that's not counting Reinhardt) so there's more to it than the team imo.

It wasn't much better last year either, he was 9th in Pts/60 among forwards after removing the callups

One might argue having an underperforming 2nd line center is a big part of why we struggle at 5v5.

 

[DylanSensFan]

We need a Mark Methot type of player on our team right now and that could fix a lot.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Imagine being rattled by ONE period vs the Flyers
And saying you are tired of not making the PO lol
PO are for men

Its been called mental before. Too many players on this team are mentally weak. I said in a GDT that they need a best in class sports psychologist.
They can't get out of their own way. They are fragile. They don't have that clutch factor to rise to the occasion. They can't sustain it or they want to defer to someone else to sustain it for them.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Oraganization overall has a lack of killer instinct since Andlauer took over. It seems like they want to make eveyone happy and be a nice team, support everything, they should have fired Dorion and DJ Smith the second the ink dried on the sale and they should yell at the players who forecheck like it’s women’s hockey.


Still feels like a country club to me, No Killer Instinct anywhere on this team from the ice surface to the owners box.

I don't disagree.

 

[Yak]

Its been called mental before. Too many players on this team are mentally weak. I said in a GDT that they need a best in class sports psychologist.
They can't get out of their own way. They are fragile. They don't have that clutch factor to rise to the occasion. They can't sustain it or they want to defer to someone else to sustain it for them.

I agree. 110%. If you read my first post I think I said they need one. Maybe two of them. The goaltenders are shell-shocked and the players have zero confidence in themselves anymore. One bad goal and you look at the bench and they're all deflated like they'll never be able to get another goal ever again in their life. These guys are more fragile than a teenager on picture day with zits. They look like they're ready to cry if they're down by two goals. They skate around like the game is over.

It's much like soldiers who have been to war and shell-shocked from all the battles they have been in in the past that they can't find confidence in their day-to-day routines. They need somebody to build them back up and be a positive reinforcement. Even if it's a one-on-one or a team mentality, they need somebody in there to get these guys in the right frame of mind. Sports psychologists work for a lot of teams and Lord knows we could have used them about four goalies ago. Ullmark looks like he could use one of his own also.

 

[NyQuil]

There are some issues that were unavoidable.

We have to give out long-term contracts to players despite not winning anything yet because we are not a desirable destination and locking guys in offsets the risk of having guys leave immediately after hitting FA.

There isn't the same urgency for core guys when they have 8 kicks at the can in the back of their minds.

 

[Alex1234]

I agree. 110%. If you read my first post I think I said they need one. Maybe two of them. The goaltenders are shell-shocked and the players have zero confidence in themselves anymore. One bad goal and you look at the bench and they're all deflated like they'll never be able to get another goal ever again in their life. These guys are more fragile than a teenager on picture day with zits. They look like they're ready to cry if they're down by two goals. They skate around like the game is over.

It's much like soldiers who have been to war and shell-shocked from all the battles they have been in in the past that they can't find confidence in their day-to-day routines. They need somebody to build them back up and be a positive reinforcement. Even if it's a one-on-one or a team mentality, they need somebody in there to get these guys in the right frame of mind. Sports psychologists work for a lot of teams and Lord knows we could have used them about four goalies ago. Ullmark looks like he could use one of his own also.

They need one just for the 2 minutes breakdown after a GF
It's so crazy
They act like they have won the cup and can take the summer off in those 2 minutes and lose ALL the momentum their GF has created
Don't know if their a stat somewhere for that but we must be top 3 in the league for sure

 

[SpezDispenser]

They need one just for the 2 minutes breakdown after a GF
It's so crazy
They act like they have won the cup and can take the summer off in those 2 minutes and lose ALL the momentum their GF has created
Don't know if their a stat somewhere for that but we must be top 3 in the league for sure

100%. I was at work when the Anaheim game was on and someone had scored and I was just about to type to be careful of the next shift when they scored.

The other team is gonna come at you right away, they should know that by now. They're guilty of both not playing at full tilt after a GF, but also after a GA.

 

[Blotto71]

Again, the issue is his ES production, not PP. You might want to associate his ES production to the team and not himself, but he's 9th in pts/60 on the team (8th if you ignore Reinhardt) and 7th among forwards (that's not counting Reinhardt) so there's more to it than the team imo.

It wasn't much better last year either, he was 9th in Pts/60 among forwards after removing the callups

One might argue having an underperforming 2nd line center is a big part of why we struggle at 5v5.

Thank you @Micklebot for capturing and expressing my thoughts better than I could.

@BankStreetParade I appreciate where you're coming from and, if I'm being honest, expected someone to reply as you have.

I've stated in the past that I'd like to see Norris at LW (taking draws a la Tkachuk or Giroux) to better position him to shoot more - because he doesn't drive the play. He struggles to play with the puck (others have commented on this), whether that is keeping control or operating at speed. I suggest he is a 3C because he is good on the dot (defensive zone coverage), can PK, and is okay away from the puck. Also, he's a capable goal scorer. His $7.95M AAV keeps him in the top 6, though. On the wing he'd be able to play a simpler, more focused game - I think that'd be good for him. As it stands, he is underperforming the contract at 5v5 and that's why I expressed that I thought it was a bad one, and also why I'd move him given the opportunity (and because Green, like many, won't play him on the wing).

Tkachuk - Pinto - Batherson
Norris - Stützle - Giroux
Gregor - Ostapchuk - Amadio
Cousins - Greig - MacEwan

That's how I'd roll. Perron moves onto L3 when he's able.

I like MacEwan in the lineup over Reinhart.

 

[Golden_Jet]

they should have fired Dorion and DJ Smith the second the ink dried on the sale

So on the eve of training camp.

and they should yell at the players who forecheck like it’s women’s hockey.

But let’s trade the guy that forechecks hard.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

In hindsight, I would agree they should have been let go, regardless of timing, because now we know the results of their last kick at the can they shouldn't have been granted in the first place, but the timing was always going to dictate that wasn't likely. They did wait too long on DJ imo, but again, hard to see that team last year doing damage with any coach.

 

[Tuna99]

So on the eve of training camp.

You’re so right, Dorion deserved an extra 6 weeks to turn it around.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You’re so right, Dorion deserved an extra 6 weeks to turn it around.

They were probably vetting and having to give approval on all his decisions by then anyways, regardless of what they said publicly, but seriously, guy should have been let go way before then.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You’re so right, Dorion deserved an extra 6 weeks to turn it around.

When was the last time in the league a coach and GM were let go on the eve of training camp,
I’ll wait while you research the answer.

Noticed you deleted the BT comment out of your reply.

 

[Tuna99]

When was the last time in the league a coach and GM were let go on the eve of training camp,
I’ll wait while you research the answer.

Noticed you deleted the BT comment out of your reply.

Dude I agreed with your idea Dorion needed another 6 weeks to work that magic brain of his for a solution to his own rebuild plan. Chill out

 

[Golden_Jet]

Dude I agreed with your idea Dorion needed another 6 weeks to work that magic brain of his for a solution to his own rebuild plan. Chill out

So got nothing, we already knew that thanks.