Player Discussion Elias Pettersson Talk | Also Chiropractors, the Medical Staff, and You

[Ernie]

I was responding to a question. I gave the numbers.

For Mikheyev, I thought his time with Vancouver was more relevant since that's what people were familiar with. If you want to take his last 40 games including Chicago he loses one assist. Nothing changes.

Nothing here was cherry-picked. The numbers are shocking no matter how you run them.



Where did I say any of that?

I want him to play well.

He played well in 2022 and 2023. He was absolute dogshit in 2021 and 2024.

It's infuriating watching your highest-paid player play this badly. It was infuriating watching our best playoff chance in ages slip away last year in large part because Pettersson had one of the worst playoff no-shows for a star player in recent memory.

We don't have a huge window here. Whatever the hell is happening with Pettersson needs to get fixed because if it continues this season will be lost, too.

You'd think that being a Canucks fan for 40 years or so would give you a thicker skin. You'd think.

 

[MS]

I hate these kind of posts from you.

You are usually the voice of reason but then you decide to post somethibg batshit crazy.

What is 'batshit crazy' in that post?

There have been three separate large sample sizes in his career where Pettersson has simply stopped competing and turned into a crap player.

I *suspect* the issue is that if something is slightly off with his body he completely loses all confidence and disengages. And people want to excuse everything with 'HE'S HURT'. But that isn't good enough. This isn't the Give The Delicate Petal A Hug League. Star players play hurt all the time. It's the absolute f***ing EXPECTATION that if you're an $11 million superstar you find a way to go out there and deliver an 80% result and help your team, no matter what. Draisaitl destroyed us in the playoffs and the guy couldn't even skate. JT Miller was banged up at the end of last season and he still played well. Boeser was banged up and played well in the playoffs.

You don't just get to go from being a 100-point C to a 35-point C over large sample sizes because you have a minor injury. That isn't OK. It means you're soft as f***.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I was responding to a question. I gave the numbers.

For Mikheyev, I thought his time with Vancouver was more relevant since that's what people were familiar with. If you want to take his last 40 games including Chicago he loses one assist. Nothing changes.

Nothing here was cherry-picked. The numbers are shocking no matter how you run them.



Where did I say any of that?

I want him to play well.

He played well in 2022 and 2023. He was absolute dogshit in 2021 and 2024.

It's infuriating watching your highest-paid player play this badly. It was infuriating watching our best playoff chance in ages slip away last year in large part because Pettersson had one of the worst playoff no-shows for a star player in recent memory.

We don't have a huge window here. Whatever the hell is happening with Pettersson needs to get fixed because if it continues this season will be lost, too.

You forgot to include that he was playing through a knee injury.

Lots of people seem to have this problem here... weird.

What is 'batshit crazy' in that post?

There have been three separate large sample sizes in his career where Pettersson has simply stopped competing and turned into a crap player.

I *suspect* the issue is that if something is slightly off with his body he completely loses all confidence and disengages. And people want to excuse everything with 'HE'S HURT'. But that isn't good enough. This isn't the Give The Delicate Petal A Hug League. Star players play hurt all the time. It's the absolute f***ing EXPECTATION that if you're an $11 million superstar you find a way to go out there and deliver an 80% result and help your team, no matter what. Draisaitl destroyed us in the playoffs and the guy couldn't even skate. JT Miller was banged up at the end of last season and he still played well. Boeser was banged up and played well in the playoffs.

You don't just get to go from being a 100-point C to a 35-point C over large sample sizes because you have a minor injury. That isn't OK. It means you're soft as f***.

The part where you suggest that he doesnt feel like trying...

Its just pure bias.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I have no doubts that at some point Pettersson with check back in and decide to compete again.

This part.

This is clown material.

 

[MS]

You forgot to include that he was playing through a knee injury.

Lots of people seem to have this problem here... weird.

See my next post.

His little knee tendinitis problem that caused him to miss 0 games and didn't even cause him to be scratched in Game 82 when they rested the actual injured players (Miller, Hronek, Boeser) does not excuse a drop-off in play this extreme.

Expectations are higher than this. Expectations are that you do what McDavid or Draisaitl did in the playoffs when they were hurt more seriously than Pettersson was. Or what Miller and Boeser did when they were banged up this year.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I still don’t quite get it, but I’ll just have to respect your view on it and kindly disagree. And I’ll just leave it at that

Last season with better linemates.

Unless he is on ice with QH he is getting out shot by a significant marginal. EP is holding his own, with lesser line mates.

See my next post.

His little knee tendinitis problem that caused him to miss 0 games and didn't even cause him to be scratched in Game 82 when they rested the actual injured players (Miller, Hronek, Boeser) does not excuse a drop-off in play this extreme.

Expectations are higher than this. Expectations are that you do what McDavid or Draisaitl did in the playoffs when they were hurt more seriously than Pettersson was. Or what Miller and Boeser did when they were banged up this year.

Ughhh...


f***.

Problem is people here respect you and will think this makes sense. f***in hell...

 

[MS]

This part.

This is clown material.

It isn't.

The guy isn't competing. He doesn't want the puck.

And this is the third large-sample time in his career we've seen this.

 

[beachcomber]

He just seems to have checked out of Vancouver. The other teams have book on him anyhow. Play him hard and he folds.

 

[MS]

View attachment 916968

Last season with better linemates.

Unless he is on ice with QH he is getting out shot by a significant marginal. EP is holding his own, with lesser line mates.


Ughhh...


f***.

Just keep making excuses for an $11 million player having 1 ES goal in 40 games while looking like his dog died the whole time.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It isn't.

The guy isn't competing. He doesn't want the puck.

And this is the third large-sample time in his career we've seen this.

Its utter garbage.

Mind reader bullshit.

Look. Its okay to not form a strong opinion about stuff you have zero knowledge about like knee injuries.

Edit. Sorry for being so blunt.

I just think it is important to keep the narrative here about EPs injury as close to the truth as possible.

 

[Kryten]

That's the sense I am getting from a lot of posters here. Basically whenever you see anyone talk about body language, it basically means "he is behaving different to my personal and arbitrary expectation".

If someone plays at half speed than they used to, sulks, doesnt inspire others with their actions and wears a letter. Respectfully, maybe you should try another sport, like knitting

 

[MS]

Its utter garbage.

Mind reader bullshit.

Look. Its okay to not form a strong opinion about stuff you have zero knowledge about like knee injuries.

This is the THIRD TIME this has happened.

Benefit of the doubt went out the window a long time ago.

And again : star players play injured all the time. They don't play like this.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Yeah, I get that Pettersson has rubbed people the wrong way in the past with his personality but to suggest this intensely competitive player has suddenly taken his $100m and decided to stop playing is deranged.

If I had to guess anything, he's piling up way too much pressure on himself and forcing plays to try to get his mojo back. But that's just speculation, because I have no bloody clue what's going on with this player. If that's the case, though, Canucks fans are just making it worse by turning the volume up this high.

I mentioned in the previous post that this market may not be the best place for Pettersson. It's ridiculous - people will in one breath complain about the market and in the next breath behave like the worst of the people they are complaining about.

Pull yourselves together and act like adults.

I don't think he suddenly decided to stop playing, but I do think, based on my observation, that Petey gets frustrated when things aren't going his way (either due to injuries, team success, contract reasons, etc). Once he gets frustrated, he's incapable to playing anywhere near his standard. He doesn't (or isn't capable to?) fight through what ever is bothering him, which leads to more frustration, and the hole gets deeper with him. I think he really want to play well and win, but it feels like that he isn't able to get out of a funk as easily as other star players. You almost never see another top player going MIA for stretches as long as he does. His dry spells are probably injuries-related (I hope), but you see other star players fighting through significant injuries and still produce like a star (Draisatl and Bergeron immediately comes to mind).

If this is the case, it is a huge issue for our team. There are going to be adversaries every season, you can't have your (arguably) most talented and highest paid player randomly going 40+ games producing like a 3rd liner. It is hard enough to compete for the cup as is, but its all but impossible if one of your top player might just disappear for half a season and you can't get him back to standard. They really need to figure that out if the team has any hope for competing.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This is the THIRD TIME this has happened.

Benefit of the doubt went out the window a long time ago.

And again : star players play injured all the time. They don't play like this.

You dont actually think this makes sense...

Different injuries are different.

This is really not a hill you need to die on.

 

[MS]

If someone plays at half speed than they used to, sulks, doesnt inspire others with their actions and wears a letter. Respectfully, maybe you should try another sport, like knitting

The notion that body language isn't important is the same thing as the Benning-bots who said that Jim Benning's terrible public speaking and inability to form a cohesive sentence didn't matter in terms of being a GM.

Of course it matters.

You're getting paid to be a leader here. You have a letter on your jersey. You're getting paid to set the tone for the team and bring energy and compete.

You dont actually think this makes sense...

Different injuries are different.

This is really not a hill you need to die on.

Different like the minor wrist injury that meant he couldn't move his feet a year later, sure.

Again : THREE TIMES.

Benefit of the doubt is gone.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The notion that body language isn't important is the same thing as the Benning-bots who said that Jim Benning's terrible public speaking and inability to form a cohesive sentence didn't matter in terms of being a GM.

Of course it matters.

You're getting paid to be a leader here. You have a letter on your jersey. You're getting paid to set the tone for the team and bring energy and compete.



Different like the minor wrist injury that meant he couldn't move his feet a year later, sure.

Again : THREE TIMES.

Benefit of the doubt is gone.

Ok.

Guess this is the hill you chose to die on...

But please. People reading this. MS has no f***in clue what he is talking about when it comes to EPs injuries. Zero.

 

[Ernie]

I don't think he suddenly decided to stop playing, but I do think, based on my observation, that Petey gets frustrated when things aren't going his way (either due to injuries, team success, contract reasons, etc). Once he gets frustrated, he's incapable to playing anywhere near his standard. He doesn't (or isn't capable to?) fight through what ever is bothering him, which leads to more frustration, and the hole gets deeper with him. I think he really want to play well and win, but it feels like that he isn't able to get out of a funk as easily as other star players. You almost never see another top player going MIA for stretches as long as he does. His dry spells are probably injuries-related (I hope), but you see other star players fighting through significant injuries and still produce like a star (Draisatl and Bergeron immediately comes to mind).

If this is the case, it is a huge issue for our team. There are going to be adversaries every season, you can't have your (arguably) most talented and highest paid player randomly going 40+ games producing like a 3rd liner. It is hard enough to compete for the cup as is, but its all but impossible if one of your top player might just disappear for half a season and you can't get him back to standard. They really need to figure that out if the team has any hope for competing.

Sure, this is all speculation but it could very possibly be true. Or not!

I mean when Miller was playing bad we could openly see his frustration by slamming sticks etc so it wasn't a mystery. The fanbase was desperately trying to figure out how to trade him literally just last year.

It could be any combination of things. He's not playing well which has gotten to his head, he's had a rotation of crap linemates, he's had a nagging injury, and, IMO the elephant in the room, his play style doesn't align with what the coach is preaching. It's no mystery that he's an east-west player that is playing in a north-south system right now. In fact, the last cold stretch he went on in 2021 was around the same time that Travis Green tried to implement his crappy defensive scheme.

Again, this is an intensely competitive player who has, by all accounts, a good relationship with the coach, so it's for the two of them to figure it out.

These are all points for discussion and what this thread should be about. The intense anger that is being exhibited here is downright crazy.

 

[F A N]

Yeah 7 points in a month is low for him, his points went back up to 14 in Feb and then 11 and 19.
He could’ve been better without scoring, don’t remember. But I do remember BB being asked about it and it was not instant considering BB came in Dec and it wasn’t like Green gone and Petey showed up the game after or a several games after.

Well it also coincided with Petey changing back to his old stick length and flex.

He also had 3 goals 7 points in 11 games to start 2020-2021.

The point is that there appears to be non-injury related reasons for Petey looking ineffective instead of say a snake-bit star player who was still generating a ton of offensive chances (which is more typical of struggling star players).

But yes one of the talking points was that if Boudreau can get Petey back to his usual self by the end of the season Boudreau's tenure would be a success.

 

[MS]

I don't think he suddenly decided to stop playing, but I do think, based on my observation, that Petey gets frustrated when things aren't going his way (either due to injuries, team success, contract reasons, etc). Once he gets frustrated, he's incapable to playing anywhere near his standard. He doesn't (or isn't capable to?) fight through what ever is bothering him, which leads to more frustration, and the hole gets deeper with him. I think he really want to play well and win, but it feels like that he isn't able to get out of a funk as easily as other star players. You almost never see another top player going MIA for stretches as long as he does. His dry spells are probably injuries-related (I hope), but you see other star players fighting through significant injuries and still produce like a star (Draisatl and Bergeron immediately comes to mind).

If this is the case, it is a huge issue for our team. There are going to be adversaries every season, you can't have your (arguably) most talented and highest paid player randomly going 40+ games producing like a 3rd liner. It is hard enough to compete for the cup as is, but its all but impossible if one of your top player might just disappear for half a season and you can't get him back to standard. They really need to figure that out if the team has any hope for competing.

This is basically my exact take on things as well. The bolded is better than I've been able to say it.

When everything is right for him, it's great. But if there's any sort of external distraction or minor injury issue or whatever ... it just totally falls apart to an extreme extent unlike any other player I've ever seen.

I'm sure he's not out there consciously thinking 'I'm not going to try tonight'. But something in his mentality or his preparation just seems to break completely, his confidence vanishes, and he looks like a player trying to hide when he's on the ice.

And yeah. It's a problem, because in an NHL season everything is probably going to be going perfectly well under 50% of the time. You're probably going to be healthy in the playoffs less than 50% of the time in your career. It's a mandatory thing that you're able to suck it up and perform under less-than-ideal conditions when you don't feel 100%.

 

[F A N]

If I had to guess anything, he's piling up way too much pressure on himself and forcing plays to try to get his mojo back. But that's just speculation, because I have no bloody clue what's going on with this player. If that's the case, though, Canucks fans are just making it worse by turning the volume up this high.

I'm definitely not hating on Petey but I don't think our criticism is unfair. If what you say is true, it's still concerning or even more concerning. Athletes in general need to perform under pressure. Star players especially need to perform under pressure. I can understand that confidence can wane and one can "squeeze their sticks" or "try too hard" for a stretch of games to compensate but then the player needs to get going especially after one goes in.

Quinn got the C and took his game to another level. Miller was challenged and he put together a career season. Boeser was under immense pressure to bounce back and he changed up his offseason training and had a career year. Of course there's some luck in terms of health involved but at the end of the day "too much pressure" is not an excuse at all.

 

[MS]

Ok.

Guess this is the hill you chose to die on...

But please. People reading this. MS has no f***in clue what he is talking about when it comes to EPs injuries. Zero.

Neither do you.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Neither do you.

Not true at all.

Wont respond to this drivel anymore.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Sure, this is all speculation but it could very possibly be true. Or not!

I mean when Miller was playing bad we could openly see his frustration by slamming sticks etc so it wasn't a mystery. The fanbase was desperately trying to figure out how to trade him literally just last year.

It could be any combination of things. He's not playing well which has gotten to his head, he's had a rotation of crap linemates, he's had a nagging injury, and, IMO the elephant in the room, his play style doesn't align with what the coach is preaching. It's no mystery that he's an east-west player that is playing in a north-south system right now. In fact, the last cold stretch he went on in 2021 was around the same time that Travis Green tried to implement his crappy defensive scheme.

Again, this is an intensely competitive player who has, by all accounts, a good relationship with the coach, so it's for the two of them to figure it out.

These are all points for discussion and what this thread should be about. The intense anger that is being exhibited here is downright crazy.

The only thing that ISN'T speculation is the fact that he had went through multiple extended cold/ineffective stretches in his young career. Everything else is just speculation from our point of view because we just don't know what is going on inside the room and inside Petey's head. Your suggestion that his play style not aligning with RT's system is valid but also a speculation. This is a discussion board, but we have very incomplete information, so all we can do is to discuss and speculate based on what we can see.

I'm not seeing the "intense anger" you are talking about, aside from a couple posters. I don't think they represent the majority's view. I do see a lot of concerned fans though, because this level of performance is not acceptable for a player of Petey's pay and caliber. Our cup window is effectively shut if he cannot snap out of it, and if he cannot avoid these streaks going forward, unfortunately. On paper we have a really good team, I think that is what is causing the extra-emotional responses. We should have 2 1C, a Norris winner, and a Vezina candidate, this is about as good a team as we ever had, and therefore, as good a chance to win the cup as we ever had. The frustration/disappointment comes from one of those pieces being paid like a top player but not playing like it. You don't see this level of emotion when Mikheyev struggled hard last season because he isn't as important a piece.

 

[Ernie]

I'm definitely not hating on Petey but I don't think our criticism is unfair. If what you say is true, it's still concerning or even more concerning. Athletes in general need to perform under pressure. Star players especially need to perform under pressure. I can understand that confidence can wane and one can "squeeze their sticks" or "try too hard" for a stretch of games to compensate but then the player needs to get going especially after one goes in.

Quinn got the C and took his game to another level. Miller was challenged and he put together a career season. Boeser was under immense pressure to bounce back and he changed up his offseason training and had a career year. Of course there's some luck in terms of health involved but at the end of the day "too much pressure" is not an excuse at all.

There are a multitude of players who don't like the microscope of the Canadian market, and then suddenly they're winning the cup in a place it never snows.

Some players manage to play through the noise, but it's been cited as a reason that players avoid Canadian cities, and a big reason that a Canadian team hasn't won a cup in an almost statistically impossible length of time.

All I'm saying is shut up and let this player get through whatever funk he's in. Ranting and raving on the Internet is just going to do your own mental health in and do nothing to improve whatever he's deal with.

 

[MS]

Not true at all.

Wont respond to this drivel anymore.

You know as much about EP's injury as you do about Aatu Raty's 'terrible' offseason training that meant he wasn't prepared for training camp.

And again: if this was one time there would be benefit of the doubt. This is the 3rd time, and it happened immediately after he held the club to ransom for a year and did the whole Boat Cruise with Elliotte Deal.

f***ing play better. That's the expectation. That's what star players do.