Player Discussion Elias Pettersson Talk | Also Chiropractors, the Medical Staff, and You

[Kryten]

Hes an alien guys. It makes total sense when you realize his insides are wired differently. It totally explains why his speed and balance was off when he had a hurt wrist, and his hands and head didnt work when his knee was hurt

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Hes an alien guys. It makes total sense when you realize his insides are wired differently. It totally explains why his speed and balance was off when he had a hurt wrist, and his hands and head didnt work when his knee was hurt

Duh, the mother ship sent him the wrong brand of stick.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Can you imagine playing hockey with broken ribs and a broken finger at the same time? NHLers play with what would be debilitating injuries for a normal person in the post season all the time. It’s a requirement for hosting a SC.

Who did that for 4 months?

Understand that its excruciating pain everytime you generate power through the leg and you cant just take shots to take the pain away for 4 months straight.

It makes you hate the game and hate doing the work necessary to be in shape through the season.

I have no doubt he’ll be much better when he’s 100% healthy. I think the question is becoming can he play through the pain that is inevitable during a full season and postseason. Sometimes he seems like someone who can only play well when everything is going his way. When it’s not, he completely falls off the rails. He’s still young, but it’s a bit concerning at this point.

Yes. You can take pain meds for a few playoff serios that will more or less take the pain away.


You cant do that for 4 months straight for training and games.

The fetishising of playing through injuries is one of the darkest aspects of pro sports...

 

[kanucks25]

At the end of the day he was deemed healthy enough to play and not require maintenance.

Athletes from all different eras and sports will tell you: if you suit up, you will and should be judged as if you're healthy.

A knee injury would explain why he pretty much lost all explosiveness and quickness in his movements but I think we all know it was mostly between the ears.

He lost his confidence, perhaps the injury hampering his abilities played a big part in it, and the rest is history. A minor or moderate knee injury shouldn't make a player almost completely lose his hands, IQ and effort. Look at what Draisaitl was doing 2 playoffs ago on one leg.

The fetishising of playing through injuries is one of the darkest aspects of pro sports...

In some contexts, perhaps.

And then there are stories of players being like "sorry boys, not gonna be able to go today, this hangnail is making it really tough for me to put on my glove".

So it depends.

 

[F A N]

My understanding of the injury is that it gets progressively worse if it isn't rested and rehabbed. My thinking is it started as a nagging injury for Pettersson and by the time the injury became brutally hindering it was too late to start the rest process. Either way I think Pettersson will learn his limitations for injuries moving forward based on how he went forward with the knee.

That's where the team doctors/training staff, coaching staff, and management comes in. If it started in January and got progressively worse, there is a point in time where Allvin and Tocchet need to step in.
It's never too late to start the rest process. 10% better is better to start the playoffs is better than 0-10% worse.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

My understanding of the injury is that it gets progressively worse if it isn't rested and rehabbed. My thinking is it started as a nagging injury for Pettersson and by the time the injury became brutally hindering it was too late to start the rest process. Either way I think Pettersson will learn his limitations for injuries moving forward based on how he went forward with the knee.

This is my guess too.

But something something just mentally weak etc.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

The fetishising of playing through injuries is one of the darkest aspects of pro sports...

But something something just mentally weak etc.

it occurs to me that arguably the defining moment of this franchise’s history (linden’s two goals in game 7 of the finals) can be summed up by two unforgettable quotes

“You can’t imagine what it’s like to hear your captain, in a room down the hall, screaming at the top of his lungs as they injected the needle into his rib cage. Knowing him, he probably thought we couldn’t hear. He would then walk into our dressing room like nothing had happened.”

“He will play. You know he’ll play! He’ll play on crutches! He will play! And he’ll play at Madison Square Garden on Tuesday night!”

it’s not hard to see a cultural correlation between that 1994 mythology and how we’re talking about petey in this thread. but bigger picture, could there also be a link here to all the horrible horrible calls our medical staff has made over the last three decades? from bure to allegedly causing kesler’s colitis to raymond to cody to boeser, and handfuls upon handfuls that aren’t coming immediately to mind?

 

[strattonius]

That's where the team doctors/training staff, coaching staff, and management comes in. If it started in January and got progressively worse, there is a point in time where Allvin and Tocchet need to step in.
It's never too late to start the rest process. 10% better is better to start the playoffs is better than 0-10% worse.

We're all still missing a myriad of context and information on how this injury was communicated and relayed to our coaching staff, etc. by Pettersson.

I don't know... truthfully it's a boring conversation to me. We can speculate what happened but there is no doubt a mistake was made along the way that some people want to lament on and on about. The power of hindsight.

 

[hnlnz]

Hello,

The only players with more 5v5 points than Pettersson from the start of the 2022-23 season to 3 days after his signing (Mar 5, 2024) were: MacKinnon, McDavid, Pastrnak, and Kucherov.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Out of the top 20 NHL players based on 5v5 points from the start of the 2022-23 season to Mar 5, 2024, Pettersson:
- Had the lowest average 5v5 TOI/gp.
- Got the second most Selke votes in 2022-23. (Only top 20 player with more votes was Marner).
- Is the third youngest player.

To summarize, if we look at the list of top 20 NHL players based on 5v5 points from Oct 12, 2022 to Mar 5, 2024:
- Pettersson is the 5th most productive player.
- Pettersson is the 2nd best defensive forward.
- Pettersson is the 3rd youngest player.
- Pettersson plays the center position.

Elite. Productive. Complete. Young. Center.

Everything I've stated above is fact. My personal opinion is that when Elias Pettersson is at his best, he is the 4th best center in the NHL behind McDavid, MacKinnon, and Draisaitl.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Pearson-Pettersson-Toffoli, Erickkson-Pettersson-Boeser etc. weren’t fast North-South lines but were effective at controlled play, making small passes, using deception, strategically breaking down defences etc. Agree with a previous poster that Pettersson doesn’t need a fast skating north-south winger but a good east-west winger with high IQ (Matt Tkachuck would’ve been perfect but Jimbo drafted Juolevi).

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Pettersson thinks the game at a 1st line level, not at a 3rd line level. This is his greatest strength and his biggest flaw. He doesn't play in straight lines so as to mesh with Mikheyev and Hoglander. This is what Crosby does so well. He keeps his game simple despite who he is playing with. That way, wingers know they can play the same way and it will work. Not so for Pettersson.

A winger that thinks the game at a 1st line level gets the most out of Pettersson. More east west. Playing into space. Short passes. Deception etc... This is why Toffoli would have worked with him. This is why Kuzmenko worked with him.

Throwing a bunch of good possession players against a wall may work. Heinen, Sherwood, DeBrusk etc... One of them could fit, cross your fingers and let's hope.

Agree.

 

[racerjoe]

I find it pretty funny that many of the people who were complaining about Petey's performance in the playoffs saying it didn't matter who he played with are also the same ones who are saying he needs a player who thinks the game like a 1st line player...

 

[Bleach Clean]

I find it pretty funny that many of the people who were complaining about Petey's performance in the playoffs saying it didn't matter who he played with are also the same ones who are saying he needs a player who thinks the game like a 1st line player...

There were calls to have Boeser on his wing in the playoffs. He didn't look on form with anyone else.

I'm not sure who you're referring to with your argument? Or if that argument is even incorrect. Seems to hold.

 

[Regal]

I find it pretty funny that many of the people who were complaining about Petey's performance in the playoffs saying it didn't matter who he played with are also the same ones who are saying he needs a player who thinks the game like a 1st line player...

Not sure what the problem is with that line of thinking. He was bad enough down the stretch and in the playoffs to the point where it wasn’t worth ruining other lines to get him going, and the team doesn’t really have the high IQ first line players being talked about other than Miller and Boeser, and Pettersson-Boeser and the Lotto line both didn’t play well when they were tried down the stretch either. Obviously the discussion is with the caveat that he won’t continue to be the player we saw in the playoffs going forward. Saying he would likely play well with Guentzel or other high IQ players in general doesn’t mean they would have made him play much better in the playoffs.

 

[racerjoe]

Not sure what the problem is with that line of thinking. He was bad enough down the stretch and in the playoffs to the point where it wasn’t worth ruining other lines to get him going, and the team doesn’t really have the high IQ first line players being talked about other than Miller and Boeser, and Pettersson-Boeser and the Lotto line both didn’t play well when they were tried down the stretch either. Obviously the discussion is with the caveat that he won’t continue to be the player we saw in the playoffs going forward. Saying he would likely play well with Guentzel or other high IQ players in general doesn’t mean they would have made him play much better in the playoffs.

90% it wasn't you in the original debate, but during the playoffs when Petey was playing bad, there was a large number of people saying he should just step up and it doesnt matter who he is playing with... he should just be better. There was a poster who went through top 10 players and who they played with mostly, and how much better they were than Mik and Hog. Now some of them have posted about needing to get him a better linemate... that seems to go against the original debate to me.

 

[PavelBure10]

I think Petey is going to have a massive season next year. With a healthy Pettersson I see another 100+ points season coming.

 

[alternate]

When Petey retires, he'll do so as the best forward in franchise history.

 

[Regal]

90% it wasn't you in the original debate, but during the playoffs when Petey was playing bad, there was a large number of people saying he should just step up and it doesnt matter who he is playing with... he should just be better. There was a poster who went through top 10 players and who they played with mostly, and how much better they were than Mik and Hog. Now some of them have posted about needing to get him a better linemate... that seems to go against the original debate to me.

I think both things can be true to an extent though. Pettersson was no doubt hindered by his linemates, but he was also playing poorly on his own and we’ve seen him and other elite centres play well with poor linemates. I don’t think he should be expected to be on a hundred point pace in the playoffs or anything with those guys, but he should be expected to put up more than 1 goal in 13 games even with poor linemates. Obviously the injury was a factor as well though.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Hello,

The only players with more 5v5 points than Pettersson from the start of the 2022-23 season to 3 days after his signing (Mar 5, 2024) were: MacKinnon, McDavid, Pastrnak, and Kucherov.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Out of the top 20 NHL players based on 5v5 points from the start of the 2022-23 season to Mar 5, 2024, Pettersson:
- Had the lowest average 5v5 TOI/gp.
- Got the second most Selke votes in 2022-23. (Only top 20 player with more votes was Marner).
- Is the third youngest player.

To summarize, if we look at the list of top 20 NHL players based on 5v5 points from Oct 12, 2022 to Mar 5, 2024:
- Pettersson is the 5th most productive player.
- Pettersson is the 2nd best defensive forward.
- Pettersson is the 3rd youngest player.
- Pettersson plays the center position.

Elite. Productive. Complete. Young. Center.

Everything I've stated above is fact. My personal opinion is that when Elias Pettersson is at his best, he is the 4th best center in the NHL behind McDavid, MacKinnon, and Draisaitl.

Heluva 1st post!

 

[LordBacon]

Hello,

The only players with more 5v5 points than Pettersson from the start of the 2022-23 season to 3 days after his signing (Mar 5, 2024) were: MacKinnon, McDavid, Pastrnak, and Kucherov.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Out of the top 20 NHL players based on 5v5 points from the start of the 2022-23 season to Mar 5, 2024, Pettersson:
- Had the lowest average 5v5 TOI/gp.
- Got the second most Selke votes in 2022-23. (Only top 20 player with more votes was Marner).
- Is the third youngest player.

To summarize, if we look at the list of top 20 NHL players based on 5v5 points from Oct 12, 2022 to Mar 5, 2024:
- Pettersson is the 5th most productive player.
- Pettersson is the 2nd best defensive forward.
- Pettersson is the 3rd youngest player.
- Pettersson plays the center position.

Elite. Productive. Complete. Young. Center.

Everything I've stated above is fact. My personal opinion is that when Elias Pettersson is at his best, he is the 4th best center in the NHL behind McDavid, MacKinnon, and Draisaitl.

Bro just got here and decided to drop the hardest post so far in this offseason.

 

[racerjoe]

I think both things can be true to an extent though. Pettersson was no doubt hindered by his linemates, but he was also playing poorly on his own and we’ve seen him and other elite centres play well with poor linemates. I don’t think he should be expected to be on a hundred point pace in the playoffs or anything with those guys, but he should be expected to put up more than 1 goal in 13 games even with poor linemates. Obviously the injury was a factor as well though.

I completely agree.

The funny thing is people were saying he wasn't injured... and even now trying to down play his injury.

 

[F A N]

I completely agree.

The funny thing is people were saying he wasn't injured... and even now trying to down play his injury.

The more concerning part is why management/coaching staff were downplaying his injury.

 

[racerjoe]

The more concerning part is why management/coaching staff were downplaying his injury.

If I had to guess, its because in the playoffs... why would you want the other team to know where an injury is... We see it all the time.

 

[F A N]

If I had to guess, its because in the playoffs... why would you want the other team to know where an injury is... We see it all the time.

Well during the playoffs Tocchet didn't need to make a big deal out of not lying. I have no issues with him downplaying Petey's injuries during the playoffs. Tocchet also said that they did not consider shutting down Petey or resting Petey. I assume that if management/coaching staff felt Petey was dealing with a serious injury they would have at least rested him. I'm guessing you do not share the same assumptions?

 

[racerjoe]

Well during the playoffs Tocchet didn't need to make a big deal out of not lying. I have no issues with him downplaying Petey's injuries during the playoffs. Tocchet also said that they did not consider shutting down Petey or resting Petey. I assume that if management/coaching staff felt Petey was dealing with a serious injury they would have at least rested him. I'm guessing you do not share the same assumptions?

They were not going to shut him down. The rest he would have actually needed would have been closer to months than a week off and thats if he would have been healed in time for the playoffs.

I do think they should have rested him as soon as he got it... but once they didn't they really were not in a spot to do much. As people who know more about this injury than myself have said it is an injury where if you don't wait for it to heal 100% it just comes back and hurts just as much.