Player Discussion: Ehlers

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I didn’t gather that the isolation was based on language. I interpreted his comments to be that they, as young rookies, found it difficult to socially interact with the vets at the time, which is why he said that now he tries to get the young players more involved on his current teams.

Perhaps that speaks to why there was some tension between Wheeler et al. with some of the rookies at the time (potentially).

It had nothing to do with language, nor a shyness for social interaction. He was an 18 year old kid that did what a considerable number of 18 year old kids do.

If you've been following Laine's struggles with addiction, it's all come out recently...he was addicted to video games. He lived in the virtual world nearly every moment he was away from the rink.

The tension existed with other team members because they found it bizarre that so much attention was being given to Fortnite rather than on his hockey career.

Many might find it laughable it took entering the NHL Players Assistance Program for something as trivial as video game addition, but it was seriously destroying his career to the point he took a year away from hockey.

 

[hn777]

What did he produce playing with Laine and Stastny?
Serious question.

I don't think Ehlers played PP1 back then. Pretty sure that was Connor, Scheifele, Wheeler, Laine, Buff.

 

[Gm0ney]

For the right return you absolutely can trade him.

Sure, but getting that right return will be nearly impossible. You'd need an equivalent roster player with either term or otherwise under team control (or willing to sign here, or a sign-and-trade)...otherwise we're back to square one this summer.

And why would the other team trade that for an unsigned Ehlers, unless the Jets sign-and-trade him or he expresses a willingness to sign there?

Ehlers might refuse to say if he's willing to sign with any other team, and he also has a 10 team NTC. He's probably not going to be super thrilled about being traded mid-season when the Jets are top of the league and he's a point-per-game player. Maybe if he's sent to a contender - but what contender is sending back an equivalent roster player with team control? With the cap going up to maybe $97M next season?

And even if you do miraculously meet all these criteria, there's the risk that you might screw up something that's been working really well this season.

It just seems like an impossibly tall order.

 

[10Ducky10]

Laine for sure did, Ehlers I don't remember having that much trouble, maybe was just socially awkward in his first years.

I'm pretty sure he speaks viruses languages.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes, people with more experience in the game (or anything in life) generally have a better understanding of it lol

There's absolutely nothing controversial about that

Like I said... I have zero problem admiting that in my own life. In fact, when I meet someone with more experience than me in something that interests me, instead of arguing with them, I try to learn from them

I think a lot of folks with strong opinions who haven't played the game competitively could be well served by framing their opinion as "I've never really played hockey at a high level, but it seems obvious to me that Fleury is a better option on D than Stanley... yet the coach keeps playing him. Can anyone with more knowledge and experience explain to me why he's doing that?"

Believe it or not, some of us who have been around the game enough could probably shed some light on it

It's a general lack of humility on the part of some posters.

No, of course there is nothing controversial about that. But the word generally in there is important.

I still don't agree that a poster should need to reference his experience playing the game. Smacks of elitism. We are all fans here. We all want the Jets to win. We are all entitled to our opinions. If, with the benefit of your experience, you disagree with a post, enlighten us. Argue the point, with no need to reference your experience level. The point will stand or fall on its merits, not on the relative experience levels of the posters.

Something that pops up here quite often (IIRC you bring it up) is the information that GMs and coaches have that we don't. That is a different story. But what additional information they may or may not have is an unknown. We don't usually just assume that they are right and we are wrong as a result of that info. If we did that we could just shut this board down entirely.

We see the professionals make poor decisions all the time. It isn't easy being in the position of making actual decisions instead of just critiquing the ones we see. But critiquing is what we are doing here. We form opinions without the stress that the pros have. It is easier for us to see the bigger picture. We have those advantages to somewhat offset our disadvantages.

 

[Hobble]

It had nothing to do with language, nor a shyness for social interaction. He was an 18 year old kid that did what a considerable number of 18 year old kids do.

If you've been following Laine's struggles with addiction, it's all come out recently...he was addicted to video games. He lived in the virtual world nearly every moment he was away from the rink.

The tension existed with other team members because they found it bizarre that so much attention was being given to Fortnite rather than on his hockey career.

Many might find it laughable it took entering the NHL Players Assistance Program for something as trivial as video game addition, but it was seriously destroying his career to the point he took a year away from hockey.

Not sure how what you’re saying is much different than a shy/awkward teen phase amongst adults, which is normal. He literally says that as two younger guys, Ehlers and him just wanted to stay in and play video games rather than going out to socialize with the older guys. He felt a little uncomfortable being amongst the older players, and just wanted to stay in, recover, etc.

Not discrediting any other reports, but he didn’t really attribute his staying in to his addiction in this interview. Who knows what came first, could be the ole chicken or egg debate.

 

[scelaton]

It had nothing to do with language, nor a shyness for social interaction. He was an 18 year old kid that did what a considerable number of 18 year old kids do.

If you've been following Laine's struggles with addiction, it's all come out recently...he was addicted to video games. He lived in the virtual world nearly every moment he was away from the rink.

The tension existed with other team members because they found it bizarre that so much attention was being given to Fortnite rather than on his hockey career.

Many might find it laughable it took entering the NHL Players Assistance Program for something as trivial as video game addition, but it was seriously destroying his career to the point he took a year away from hockey.

This makes a lot of sense. Gaming addiction is real, though there is still some controversy about whether it qualifies as a psychiatric disorder. Laine was a setup for it, with his teenage stardom, crazed fans and likely little to no psychological maturity/insight/resilience.

PS-Addiction, broadly defined, is ubiquitous. There are, no doubt, posters amongst us whose time on HF Jets is having negative consequences on their work and relationships. Just sayin...

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Not sure how what you’re saying is much different than a shy/awkward teen phase amongst adults, which is normal. He literally says that as two younger guys, Ehlers and him just wanted to stay in and play video games rather than going out to socialize with the older guys. He felt a little uncomfortable being amongst the older players, and just wanted to stay in, recover, etc.

Not discrediting any other reports, but he didn’t really attribute his staying in to his addiction in this interview. Who knows what came first, could be the ole chicken or egg debate.

As you already stated, Ehlers & Laine were well known to stay in playing video games during the Laine years. I guess it's possible a full blown addiction hadn't manifested, but clearly the seed was being sown. One could make the point the organization had Ehlers involved to make sure Laine actually went to bed!

Curious if anyone ever ran into Laine out on the town? We once had a thread titled the "Jets Out & About." Being in the hospitality industry, I've seen nearly every Jet / Moose player at some point as well as simply out on the town. Living in River Heights Wheeler, Lowry & Demero all live/lived closeby. Kane once cut me off travelling north east on the bridge by St. Mary's Academy.

One of the few I'd never seen out was Laine (& even non-socialite Buff I witnessed eating by himself upstairs at the Pony Pier 7), but I have seen Ehlers in the food courts at Polo Park (btw his girlfriend would be approved by Jets 31 as hotter than Plain Jane), the Forks & even saw him bowling in his rookie season when Uptown Lanes was on Academy.

 

[Buffdog]

No, of course there is nothing controversial about that. But the word generally in there is important.

I still don't agree that a poster should need to reference his experience playing the game. Smacks of elitism. We are all fans here. We all want the Jets to win. We are all entitled to our opinions. If, with the benefit of your experience, you disagree with a post, enlighten us. Argue the point, with no need to reference your experience level. The point will stand or fall on its merits, not on the relative experience levels of the posters.

Something that pops up here quite often (IIRC you bring it up) is the information that GMs and coaches have that we don't. That is a different story. But what additional information they may or may not have is an unknown. We don't usually just assume that they are right and we are wrong as a result of that info. If we did that we could just shut this board down entirely.

We see the professionals make poor decisions all the time. It isn't easy being in the position of making actual decisions instead of just critiquing the ones we see. But critiquing is what we are doing here. We form opinions without the stress that the pros have. It is easier for us to see the bigger picture. We have those advantages to somewhat offset our disadvantages.

I'll give you an example

Last season, every other post was about how Ehlers should be playing with Scief because of the stats

It seemed obvious to me that there was some locker room dynamics going on there... Schief signed his extension with Chevy after long talks about the direction of the team and his role on it

Someone who's never been in a hockey team can't understand the dynamics there. Guys were saying stuff like "if he doesnt want to play with ehlers, trade his ass". That's not how today's NHL works

Those of us who have been through that kind of thing on teams before just sort of shrug our shoulders and say "that's just the way it is". If you want to keep your 1C, you give him some sway on his linemates

That should have been the end of the discussion... but instead we got 4 months of spreadsheets. Those people have no idea what it's like to coach a team, let alone an NHL team full of at least somewhat entitled millionaires

I tried adding the context (plus some inside stuff I know though close friends being close to Chipman and TNSE). But people just went back to their xGF

 

[Cotton Eye Joe]

No, of course there is nothing controversial about that. But the word generally in there is important.

I still don't agree that a poster should need to reference his experience playing the game. Smacks of elitism. We are all fans here. We all want the Jets to win. We are all entitled to our opinions. If, with the benefit of your experience, you disagree with a post, enlighten us. Argue the point, with no need to reference your experience level. The point will stand or fall on its merits, not on the relative experience levels of the posters.

Something that pops up here quite often (IIRC you bring it up) is the information that GMs and coaches have that we don't. That is a different story. But what additional information they may or may not have is an unknown. We don't usually just assume that they are right and we are wrong as a result of that info. If we did that we could just shut this board down entirely.

We see the professionals make poor decisions all the time. It isn't easy being in the position of making actual decisions instead of just critiquing the ones we see. But critiquing is what we are doing here. We form opinions without the stress that the pros have. It is easier for us to see the bigger picture. We have those advantages to somewhat offset our disadvantages.

Couldn't agree more with this post. Well said.
My opinion is that the majority of posters on this forum are hockey fans, love the Jets and enjoy reading and discussing all aspects relating to the NHL and Jets in particular. Differing points of view are common and should be discussed in a respectful manner and allowed to take place, whether a poster agrees with it as right or wrong. Fun to discuss the Jets, especially when we are at the top!

However, when a poster starts stating, "haven't you learned yet?" and "you are in WAY over your head" to name a couple it is over the line. If you disagree with something, state your position and then let it be. To hound others to state an apology and admittance of being wrong is ridiculous. Apologies would be non-stop for all statements and predictions. And when they repeatedly state how high a level of hockey they have played, coached and officiated it does smell of elitism.
I am positive that many on this board have extensive experience in hockey, they just don't list it.
And from my experience, those who need to list it usually don't have near of what we are told.

NHL coaches and Gm's certainly have more intel the majority of the time when making decisions. However, it is commonplace for many of their decisions to not work out like they predicted.
That is the beauty and enjoyment for we fans to express what we would do if coaching or managing.

Cheers all. Keep up the great commentary. Go Jets Go!

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Couldn't agree more with this post. Well said.
My opinion is that the majority of posters on this forum are hockey fans, love the Jets and enjoy reading and discussing all aspects relating to the NHL and Jets in particular. Differing points of view are common and should be discussed in a respectful manner and allowed to take place, whether a poster agrees with it as right or wrong. Fun to discuss the Jets, especially when we are at the top!

However, when a poster starts stating, "haven't you learned yet?" and "you are in WAY over your head" to name a couple it is over the line. If you disagree with something, state your position and then let it be. To hound others to state an apology and admittance of being wrong is ridiculous. Apologies would be non-stop for all statements and predictions. And when they repeatedly state how high a level of hockey they have played, coached and officiated it does smell of elitism.
I am positive that many on this board have extensive experience in hockey, they just don't list it.
And from my experience, those who need to list it usually don't have near of what we are told.

NHL coaches and Gm's certainly have more intel the majority of the time when making decisions. However, it is commonplace for many of their decisions to not work out like they predicted.
That is the beauty and enjoyment for we fans to express what we would do if coaching or managing.

Cheers all. Keep up the great commentary. Go Jets Go!

You sound very reasonable sir, But I still have a bone to pick with you.

If it hadn't been for you, I'd been married long time ago. #poorsinglefonz

 

[Bob E]

I wonder if Ehlers will be one of the FAs that Chevy tries to sign during the 4 Nations break. Hope so. If you can get him signed to around $8M/yr on a 5+ yr deal, take it and run Chevy. I'm thinking a $7.75M/yr for 5 yrs deal ($38.75M total).

Then, Connor and RFAs Vilardi and Samberg are next this summer. Lock them in for 7 or 8 yrs Chevy.

Having Connor, Vilardi and Ehlers signed ensures your top 6 is set. It offers veteran stability to support young players coming in, star players that FAs would know who they are playing with for the next several years, or signed trade chips if the right deal comes along.

 

[Buffdog]

Couldn't agree more with this post. Well said.
My opinion is that the majority of posters on this forum are hockey fans, love the Jets and enjoy reading and discussing all aspects relating to the NHL and Jets in particular. Differing points of view are common and should be discussed in a respectful manner and allowed to take place, whether a poster agrees with it as right or wrong. Fun to discuss the Jets, especially when we are at the top!

However, when a poster starts stating, "haven't you learned yet?" and "you are in WAY over your head" to name a couple it is over the line. If you disagree with something, state your position and then let it be. To hound others to state an apology and admittance of being wrong is ridiculous. Apologies would be non-stop for all statements and predictions. And when they repeatedly state how high a level of hockey they have played, coached and officiated it does smell of elitism.
I am positive that many on this board have extensive experience in hockey, they just don't list it.
And from my experience, those who need to list it usually don't have near of what we are told.

NHL coaches and Gm's certainly have more intel the majority of the time when making decisions. However, it is commonplace for many of their decisions to not work out like they predicted.
That is the beauty and enjoyment for we fans to express what we would do if coaching or managing.

Cheers all. Keep up the great commentary. Go Jets Go!

I'll say it again

I'm getting into soccer. I consider myself a fan. That said, if only understand the game in a superficial level

Last summer I wanted to start watching Premiere League. I decided on Arsenal as a team to cheer for almost randomly

If I thought Mikel Arteta was making a strange choice with regards to player deployment, I wouldn't go into an Arsenal forum filled with life long Arsenal fans who have played and coached soccer since they were 4 and start blazing away with stats and numbers like I knew better than them and Arteta

Instead, I would ask "hey guys... I don't have a ton of experience in soccer but it appears to me from looking at these stats that players x and y have better results than players y and z... can anyone with more insight and experience explain to me why Arteta plays y and z all the time?"

Then I would listen and learn. It's basic humility

As for demanding an apology from you... Yes I did. And the reason I did was because you made i statement that I showed to you was factually false, but you didn't even acknowledge your mistake. THEN, ironically, you made a veiled accusation about me (or people like me?) being the ones who make bad predictions and factually incorrect statements

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I miss inanna and stumbledore.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I'll give you an example

Last season, every other post was about how Ehlers should be playing with Scief because of the stats

It seemed obvious to me that there was some locker room dynamics going on there... Schief signed his extension with Chevy after long talks about the direction of the team and his role on it

Someone who's never been in a hockey team can't understand the dynamics there. Guys were saying stuff like "if he doesnt want to play with ehlers, trade his ass". That's not how today's NHL works

Those of us who have been through that kind of thing on teams before just sort of shrug our shoulders and say "that's just the way it is". If you want to keep your 1C, you give him some sway on his linemates

That should have been the end of the discussion... but instead we got 4 months of spreadsheets. Those people have no idea what it's like to coach a team, let alone an NHL team full of at least somewhat entitled millionaires

I tried adding the context (plus some inside stuff I know though close friends being close to Chipman and TNSE). But people just went back to their xGF

Weird. I seem to remember a huge conversation about why Ehlers wasnt on PP1... that result doesnt fit the narrative though...

 

[JetsFan815]

Couldn't agree more with this post. Well said.
My opinion is that the majority of posters on this forum are hockey fans, love the Jets and enjoy reading and discussing all aspects relating to the NHL and Jets in particular. Differing points of view are common and should be discussed in a respectful manner and allowed to take place, whether a poster agrees with it as right or wrong. Fun to discuss the Jets, especially when we are at the top!

However, when a poster starts stating, "haven't you learned yet?" and "you are in WAY over your head" to name a couple it is over the line. If you disagree with something, state your position and then let it be. To hound others to state an apology and admittance of being wrong is ridiculous. Apologies would be non-stop for all statements and predictions. And when they repeatedly state how high a level of hockey they have played, coached and officiated it does smell of elitism.
I am positive that many on this board have extensive experience in hockey, they just don't list it.
And from my experience, those who need to list it usually don't have near of what we are told.

NHL coaches and Gm's certainly have more intel the majority of the time when making decisions. However, it is commonplace for many of their decisions to not work out like they predicted.
That is the beauty and enjoyment for we fans to express what we would do if coaching or managing.

Cheers all. Keep up the great commentary. Go Jets Go!

I had to adjust my ignore list to see who this was about and wasn't surprised. I have them ignored for most of the season and it's been a much better experience reading these boards. That was also the same poster who during covid here used to be a covid and vaccine denier/conspiracy theorist. I have been on this board for like 12 years now and only had to ignore Laine stans, this guy managed to get on it twice for completely unrelated reasons, once for the covid nonsense and then for general belligerence and unpleasantness.

 

[JetsFan815]

Laine for sure did, Ehlers I don't remember having that much trouble, maybe was just socially awkward in his first years.

I don't recall Laine having a language issue. I mean he spoke with an accent but other than that seemed like just another player to me. His draftmate Jesse Puljujarvi was the one who struggled with language for a while.

 

[Buffdog]

I had to adjust my ignore list to see who this was about and wasn't surprised. I have them ignored for most of the season and it's been a much better experience reading these boards. That was also the same poster who during covid here used to be a covid and vaccine denier/conspiracy theorist. I have been on this board for like 12 years now and only had to ignore Laine stans, this guy managed to get on it twice for completely unrelated reasons, once for the covid nonsense and then for general belligerence and unpleasantness.

You suggested we put Connor on the 4th line as a PP specialist

You also suggested we "dump" JoMo when we signed Schimdt

I keep you off my ignore list just for the sheer hilarity of your takes like the two above. They DQ you from anyone ever taking any of your opinions seriously

The reason you ignore me is because you hate being wrong in our exchanges all the time

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I'll say it again

I'm getting into soccer. I consider myself a fan. That said, if only understand the game in a superficial level

Last summer I wanted to start watching Premiere League. I decided on Arsenal as a team to cheer for almost randomly

If I thought Mikel Arteta was making a strange choice with regards to player deployment, I wouldn't go into an Arsenal forum filled with life long Arsenal fans who have played and coached soccer since they were 4 and start blazing away with stats and numbers like I knew better than them and Arteta

Instead, I would ask "hey guys... I don't have a ton of experience in soccer but it appears to me from looking at these stats that players x and y have better results than players y and z... can anyone with more insight and experience explain to me why Arteta plays y and z all the time?"

Then I would listen and learn. It's basic humility

As for demanding an apology from you... Yes I did. And the reason I did was because you made i statement that I showed to you was factually false, but you didn't even acknowledge your mistake. THEN, ironically, you made a veiled accusation about me (or people like me?) being the ones who make bad predictions and factually incorrect statements

I think the difference is that all posters on this forum are actually using the correct name of the sport they are commenting on. Perhaps.

 

[Whileee]

I must say I find a discourse about the high value of demonstrated expertise in hockey discussion forums quite ironic in an era where everyone seems to have become an expert in research methodology, virology, epidemiology and immunology without any advanced training or experience.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I must say I find a discourse about the high value of demonstrated expertise in hockey discussion forums quite ironic in an era where everyone seems to have become an expert in research methodology, virology, epidemiology and immunology without any advanced training or experience.

I will admit that the older I get... I find thatmy hands on expertise is limited to a couple specific interests...

Luckily we created machines that hold insane amounts of information about almost everything for all of those other topics.

 

[Buffdog]

I must say I find a discourse about the high value of demonstrated expertise in hockey discussion forums quite ironic in an era where everyone seems to have become an expert in research methodology, virology, epidemiology and immunology without any advanced training or experience.

For the record, I have advanced training and experience in all of those

And hockey lol

 

[Heldig]

Ehlers is an 80 to 90 point player all day long, if he’s given a spot on power play # 1 , and proper ice time, and used properly like Arneil is now. He is averaging over a point per game this year, which shows his real value

Ehlers is worth $ 8.5 to 9 mil per year as a UFA, and the Jets should resign Nik.

I am not a fan of the paying a guy based on the % of the CAP.

IMO Helle and Scheifele are the standard. Ehlers should not be paid more.

Connor will be the highest paid Jet in a year.

 

[Heldig]

It's not easy to find good leverpostej and frikadelle in Winnipeg.

Bistro Dansk?

 

[Jet]

Connor and Scheifele have their share of head scratcher plays, but they are not as obvious to many. When Connor makes a soft play inside his blueline that results in a turnover, many don't see that as a huge mistake, but the result is often very damaging, forcing the Jets to defend without structure in their own zone. Similarly, when Scheifele fails to support the puck from "underneath" in his zone and is trying to fly for offense, and it results in a dangerous turnover, few fans seem to notice. Those two certainly haven't been perfect in their play. They've been much more diligent this season and it's led to more success for that line (though they've lapsed into some of those bad habits the past few games).

It's incredible to me that people are still trying to include Nikolai Ehlers in the same conversation as 55 and 81. Yes, Schiefele and Connor have their weaknesses but the main difference that is plain to see is those two are incredibly consistent, durable producers. There's always an excuse with Ehlers. The other two produce in tight games and clutch situations too.

Once Ehlers can stay healthy and do that then we can start including him in that echelon.

Don't get me wrong, I think Nik is fabulous and I feel fortunate to have watched him over the years but there is clearly a divide between him and the next level. That's fine. You need great secondary scoring but to entertain the thought that Ehlers is as important to the Jets as the other two is ridiculous.