Player Discussion: Ehlers

[10Ducky10]

Durability is absolutely a reason to depress Ehlers contract value. Same with playoff struggles.

Also have to acknowledge the effect 3rd line + PP2 usage has had on his raw numbers.

It's shaped his perception and counting stats from bonadide 1st liner with injury concerns and playoff struggles to 2nd liner with injury concerns and playoff struggles. Even within our own fan base...

You can't really ask a non-elite/all star player to produce what he does in the ice time he had been given prior to this year. You realistically can't. No one else in the league does. At a certain point ice time is somewhat out of the guy's control...in this case it feels like it is.

This isn't him overperforming, this is his stats catching up to the calibre of player he is now that he is part of the league's best PP. If anything he could be doing a fair bit better stats wise still. We just have Connor playing amazing ahead of him.

What did he produce playing with Laine and Stastny?
Serious question.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Scheif did NOT get his contract for one season's play.
KFC would get 10m or maybe more somewhere else but Chevy isn't giving him what he would get on the open marked and KFC loves playing here.
Just like Ehlers' deal won't be based on one season. He is on pace for a lot of points but he hasn't put up more than 64 points (2016-2017) and has only scored more than 60 points 3 times.
He has only played a full season 3 times in 9 years.

No I I think wpg pays Connor. He has usually had more points than Schief’s and if they believe this d is the new Connor they will open the bank. It’s not about what they have done, but, will do in the future and you bet on Connor in my opinion. As if this new play by Connor doesn’t last team is taking a big step back.

They just take the money from bottom players and move it to the top. Iafallo isn’t here next year and the cap is going up. Pionk is getting a small raise, ehlers gets a small raise or is gone. Which leaves a chunk of cap space.

Ehlers isn’t pacing at a 90-100 pace. He has 44 points and is pacing at 1.048 ppg. There are 31 games left. If he stays healthy he will likely be in the 75 point range. Nice season and certainly a career high, but can’t see him getting $10 M. If a team thinks he is worth that much I hope Chevy is as working the trade market.

Haha yep we hijacked the ehlers talk, with Connor talk sorry.

 

[Flair Hay]

What did he produce playing with Laine and Stastny?
Serious question.

I think it's kind of important to mention that 2017-18 was his 3rd season. He was still on his ELC and a year younger than Perfetti is now...

Their line 5v5 was 16 goals, 7 against in regular season and 8 goals for, 5 against

I don't know how to isolate for just those games for him individually though.

Are you looking for the drop off in his production in playoffs? May save me some time looking this up for us.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Pretty reasonable to.assume his back issues have been present for some time... id hate to let him walk and then he lights it up for five years now that it seems that is resolved...

Chevy is facing...?
Samberg - 6mx8 years
Pionk - 7mx6 years
Connor - 12mx8
Ehlers -8.5x6
Vilardi - 8.5x8
Lowry - 5x3

About 18-20m increase over next two years

Iafallo and wheeler/schmidt- 8m reduced
Chib, ford, lambert all min wage

Think its doable if chevy can get some deals... no one thought helle would take less than 10...

 

[voyageur]

Did anyone catch the Laine interview on Spittin Chicklets? Gave some insight into the dynamic of the team, with Buff at the back of the plane drinking beers, but also talks about how he and Ehlers bonded through gaming instead of team dinners, as players who struggled a bit with the language at the start.

I think it's awesome that Nik's had a 10 year relationship with the Jets. In Germany I believe that was the contractual renewal for marriage in one legislative proposal. If this is Nik's farewell tour with the Jets, it's been a memorable one. I think he's a great player to help the young guys going through some of the same issues coming overseas feel more at home.

Actually makes more of a case for them to sign rantanen than anything...huge draft and develop success story

Rantanen probably thought he had a better chance winning with Carolina than Colorado. Colorado is depth poor. They lost a fair amount of talent from their Cup winning team, guys like Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, Compher, Byram. They have a loose cannon in Nichushkin they rely on. Maybe not the best goaltending. It's a timely divorce. ahead of the Four Nations. I think Ehlers for Necas was floated around in the offseason, and Necas wasn't interested in signing here. Might become a 100 point player in Colorado with the opportunities he'll get. It's a trade that makes some sense for both sides. Given their positions.

 

[10Ducky10]

I think it's kind of important to mention that 2017-18 was his 3rd season. He was still on his ELC and a year younger than Perfetti is now...

Then, it is important to mention that his highest points total was the year before that and he hasn't scored more since...

 

[10Ducky10]

Did anyone catch the Laine interview on Spittin Chicklets? Gave some insight into the dynamic of the team, with Buff at the back of the plane drinking beers, but also talks about how he and Ehlers bonded through gaming instead of team dinners, as players who struggled a bit with the language at the start.

Ehlers struggled with English?

 

[Flair Hay]

Then, it is important to mention that his highest points total was the year before that and he hasn't scored more since...

Fair ball. I think I explained how the circumstances of his usage and his injury history have affected that.

He has always scored like a first liner. He has never gotten first line ice time.

Like I said, the injuries and playoff performances are fair to hold against him.

I'm not sure it's fair to *also* hold his ice time against him when he has been our top producer in the time he does play.

I don't expect everyone to agree but that's my stance on it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I love watching soccer, but I fully admit that i don't have the same understanding of what I'm watching as someone who has played or coached at a high level. Same with American football, etc.

I like to strum my guitar but I don't understand music like a professional musician

I'm curious why I'd be OK admitting that but people get defensive when I bring it up about hockey. There's no shame it it... I played moderately high level, I hold advanced coaching and officiating certs... but I still admit that I'm not always fully aware of the entirety of what's happening in an NHL game

Sure, people with experience being involved in an activity are generally better equipped to appreciate the subtleties and nuances. That doesn't mean that people without that experience can't also appreciate it. They can, and do. They may even acquire some level of expertise.

It isn't that people get defensive when you bring it up about hockey. It is that you keep using that to support your opinions. It is a kind of appeal to authority, with yourself as the authority. The implications are that no one who has not played - at a high level - can understand the game.

 

[voyageur]

Ehlers struggled with English?

Laine for sure did, Ehlers I don't remember having that much trouble, maybe was just socially awkward in his first years.

 

[robertocarlos]

It's not easy to find good leverpostej and frikadelle in Winnipeg.

 

[DRW204]

Fair ball. I think I explained how the circumstances of his usage and his injury history have affected that.

He has always scored like a first liner. He has never gotten first line ice time.

Like I said, the injuries and playoff performances are fair to hold against him.

I'm not sure it's fair to *also* hold his ice time against him when he has been our top producer in the time he does play.

I don't expect everyone to agree but that's my stance on it.

also 2 of the years were covid shortened , 19-20 and 20-21 where his PPG was higher than that 16-17 year. which i wouldn't hold against him. PO performance for sure he wears, injuries i think is a bit 50-50. he is pone to injuries for sure.. how much is it suck it up and play or actually seriously being injured?

if people are expecting career-long PPG or near-PPG level consistency playing primarily 2nd line with a rotating cast of Centers, and PP2, they really need to get their expectations reconfigured imo. not a lot of players score over 60 points with his Average TOI. IMO the talks of 10M are ridiculous for him. 7-8M i think is quite fair.

 

[Gm0ney]

Ehlers struggled with English?

He speaks 6 languages or something...and he spent a couple of years in Halifax with the Mooseheads. His English has always been strong.

Laine was always pretty good with English. Not as good as Ehlers, but I don't think it was a major barrier.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Sure, people with experience being involved in an activity are generally better equipped to appreciate the subtleties and nuances. That doesn't mean that people without that experience can't also appreciate it. They can, and do. They may even acquire some level of expertise.

It isn't that people get defensive when you bring it up about hockey. It is that you keep using that to support your opinions. It is a kind of appeal to authority, with yourself as the authority. The implications are that no one who has not played - at a high level - can understand the game.

Sometimes appealing to authority is the only argument you can make as sometimes decisions can’t be justified using numbers and the information available to us.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sometimes appealing to authority is the only argument you can make as sometimes decisions can’t be justified using numbers and the information available to us.

Sometimes, sure. But we have a huge amount of data available to us, not counting everyone's eye-test.

At those points when other arguments fail maybe you shouldn't defend an opinion. For example, Pionk's improved play this year has left me unable to decide whether or not I want to re-sign him. I don't appeal to authority for an opinion. I bow to authority and put my trust in Chevy to make a good decision. It is not that I have that much faith in Chevy. It is that I have nothing else to turn to. The only alternative I have is to go along with any consensus that develops here.

 

[Hobble]

Did anyone catch the Laine interview on Spittin Chicklets? Gave some insight into the dynamic of the team, with Buff at the back of the plane drinking beers, but also talks about how he and Ehlers bonded through gaming instead of team dinners, as players who struggled a bit with the language at the start.

I think it's awesome that Nik's had a 10 year relationship with the Jets. In Germany I believe that was the contractual renewal for marriage in one legislative proposal. If this is Nik's farewell tour with the Jets, it's been a memorable one. I think he's a great player to help the young guys going through some of the same issues coming overseas feel more at home.

Rantanen probably thought he had a better chance winning with Carolina than Colorado. Colorado is depth poor. They lost a fair amount of talent from their Cup winning team, guys like Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, Compher, Byram. They have a loose cannon in Nichushkin they rely on. Maybe not the best goaltending. It's a timely divorce. ahead of the Four Nations. I think Ehlers for Necas was floated around in the offseason, and Necas wasn't interested in signing here. Might become a 100 point player in Colorado with the opportunities he'll get. It's a trade that makes some sense for both sides. Given their positions.

I didn’t gather that the isolation was based on language. I interpreted his comments to be that they, as young rookies, found it difficult to socially interact with the vets at the time, which is why he said that now he tries to get the young players more involved on his current teams.

Perhaps that speaks to why there was some tension between Wheeler et al. with some of the rookies at the time (potentially).

 

[Adam da bomb]

Sometimes, sure. But we have a huge amount of data available to us, not counting everyone's eye-test.

At those points when other arguments fail maybe you shouldn't defend an opinion. For example, Pionk's improved play this year has left me unable to decide whether or not I want to re-sign him. I don't appeal to authority for an opinion. I bow to authority and put my trust in Chevy to make a good decision. It is not that I have that much faith in Chevy. It is that I have nothing else to turn to. The only alternative I have is to go along with any consensus that develops here.

For instance I’d rather baron on second unit pp over Iafallo, but, hey we are winning. Maybe, the coach knows something I don’t.

Either way I’m going to keep my pitch fork down till we start losing.

 

[wasup]

Boy , there are a lot of piss poor contract nego.. on here . I'm glad Chevy is our GM and not HF boards .

 

[Skidooboy]

Ehlers struggled with English?

No...But Laine did

Wheeler: " Pate...you haven't worked out in weeks. your getting pushed around on th eIce, you haven't scored in 3 games, quit playing f***ing videogames and gety in the gym with the rest of the team"

Laine"Olen laiska, enkä välitä. Tulen toimeen lahjakkuudella. Välitän vain itsestäni ja teeskentelen, etten ymmärrä englantia, Katso kun tapan tämän 8-vuotiaan pojan Pub G:ssä!"

 

[Buffdog]

Sure, people with experience being involved in an activity are generally better equipped to appreciate the subtleties and nuances. That doesn't mean that people without that experience can't also appreciate it. They can, and do. They may even acquire some level of expertise.

It isn't that people get defensive when you bring it up about hockey. It is that you keep using that to support your opinions. It is a kind of appeal to authority, with yourself as the authority. The implications are that no one who has not played - at a high level - can understand the game.

Yes, people with more experience in the game (or anything in life) generally have a better understanding of it lol

There's absolutely nothing controversial about that

Like I said... I have zero problem admiting that in my own life. In fact, when I meet someone with more experience than me in something that interests me, instead of arguing with them, I try to learn from them

I think a lot of folks with strong opinions who haven't played the game competitively could be well served by framing their opinion as "I've never really played hockey at a high level, but it seems obvious to me that Fleury is a better option on D than Stanley... yet the coach keeps playing him. Can anyone with more knowledge and experience explain to me why he's doing that?"

Believe it or not, some of us who have been around the game enough could probably shed some light on it

It's a general lack of humility on the part of some posters.

 

[wasup]

People can say what they want about Patty but I found his personality refreshing . He was a good player for us and I was sad to see him go .

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Yes, people with more experience in the game (or anything in life) generally have a better understanding of it lol

There's absolutely nothing controversial about that

Like I said... I have zero problem admiting that in my own life. In fact, when I meet someone with more experience than me in something that interests me, instead of arguing with them, I try to learn from them

I think a lot of folks with strong opinions who haven't played the game competitively could be well served by framing their opinion as "I've never really played hockey at a high level, but it seems obvious to me that Fleury is a better option on D than Stanley... yet the coach keeps playing him. Can anyone with more knowledge and experience explain to me why he's doing that?"

Believe it or not, some of us who have been around the game enough could probably shed some light on it

It's a general lack of humility on the part of some posters.

@Buffdog lecturing the board about humility made my day...

I havent played hockey in a long time... but ive run my own businesses for 25 years - and one of my critical mistakes was believing i didnt need social media because i was the original guide/my gut knew best... blah blah

Things change - and if you dont change with it... then you will change at some point haha

I would venture that this attitude was very much like Maurice... and thats how we ended up carrying sbisa and beaulieu for so long... they had intangibles - that didnt matter anymore

I literally dont see anyone on this board or in the analytics world saying that adv stats are the only thing that matters... yet that argument is always presented... bizarre

 

[Gm0ney]

For instance I’d rather baron on second unit pp over Iafallo, but, hey we are winning. Maybe, the coach knows something I don’t.

Either way I’m going to keep my pitch fork down till we start losing.

How it would ever come down to deferring to Arniel's (or Payne's) expertise here when there's no real support for Barron over Iafallo on the power play apart from your own personal preference...?

If the 2nd unit was terrible and Iafallo was possibly the problem and there was some evidence that Barron might be better in that role, then you'd have a point. But none of those things are true, so it's not really a good example.

Usually when someone's suggesting a change, it's because something isn't working and there's evidence (or hope) that a change might be better than the status quo.

 

[Adam da bomb]

How it would ever come down to deferring to Arniel's (or Payne's) expertise here when there's no real support for Barron over Iafallo on the power play apart from your own personal preference...?

If the 2nd unit was terrible and Iafallo was possibly the problem and there was some evidence that Barron might be better in that role, then you'd have a point. But none of those things are true, so it's not really a good example.

Usually when someone's suggesting a change, it's because something isn't working and there's evidence (or hope) that a change might be better than the status quo.

My eye test tells me that Barron has been producing more offence lately 5 v5 by crashing the net then Iafallo. Yet iafallo keeps getting chances in top 6 and pp.
How can you know if something will or will not work if you don’t try it.
That the team would benefit more by giving barron the opportunities than status quo.

Morgan Barron is only 7 points behind Iafallo without the same minutes in top 6 and pp.

 

[King Woodballs]

I don't think they can trade him with the team at the top of the standings and Ehlers being a big part of the league's best power play. They can't afford to mortgage their present...even if it means Ehlers walks for nothing in July.

For the right return you absolutely can trade him.