Ehlers why Didnt We Trade Him
- Thread starter tarozi
- Start date
but schenn has looked okay with Berg, So he is a guy that can play top 4 in a pinch.
Yes, small sample of Samberg-Miller...but it wasn't very encouraging.
But if Samberg-Pionk holds, and maybe Morrissey-Salomonsson in the medium-term...that seems like a solid top 4. Then Someone-DeMelo as a 3rd pair? Sounds like a plan!
Agreed, but he wasn't brought in to be a top 4.
Neither was Miller.
But, you have to have someone who can play up when there is an injury.
Monkey D Luffy
Go Bombers!
Simple because they're going to re-sign him at the end of the season.
I sure hope your right, as they really need Nik to keep that 2nd line together, and be a scoring threat. Hope he’s signed.
That's not true. When Samberg was out Pionk didn't miss a beat. It is true that snerg is the perfect partner for him, though.
That ship sailed I'm afraid. I fully expect him to be dealt this summer.
They've been out there together at 5v5 for about 650 minutes and apart for about 520. Together, their on-ice metrics and analytics are great (~55%) and they're 35-20 +15 in goals. Without Samberg, Pionk's metrics are underwater across the board (~45%) and he's 17-16 +1 in goals.
The Jets really struggled while Samberg was hurt and part of that was losing the effectiveness of the 2nd pairing.
Agreed. The stretch this year that pair was not good. Granted, Fleury is not a top 4D, probably barely a 3rd pair D. Samberg really elevates that second pair to a level we haven't seen since maybe 17-18
Sure, but you have to consider who Pionk had to play with when Slammy was out.
His play in isolation IMHO was still very strong.
No one is paying anything for Heinola. He will eat popcorn next year, bounce around on waivers the year after for half a season and then set sail to finish his career in Liiga. He's just not rounded enough for the NHL. Add Heinola and Niku to your tag of what could have been.
Sure, but in that case Samberg must be amazingly good to account for a 10% swing in all the metrics/analytics and +14 goals if Pionk's been individually strong the whole time.
And we can look back for the last 3 years of Pionk's partners.
Pionk+Samberg played 900 minutes (including this year) and are positive on all the shot metrics and analytics (~54%) and ahead on goals: 40-25 +15 (although goaldiff was just even before this year).
Pionk+Morrissey played 775 minutes and are positive on all the shot metrics and analytics (~52%) and goals: 42-34 +8.
Pionk+Dillon played 1600 minutes at 5v5 and were slightly underwater on shot metrics and analytics (~48%) and goals: 63-69 -6.
And Pionk+Anyone else (600 minutes) has been a disaster in shot metrics and analytics (~41%) and goals: 17-29 -12. (Anyone else = Fleury, Stanley, Schmidt and DeMelo).
i think it's starting to look like that Samberg is amazingly good no matter how much folks want to be ignorant of it. So from this, Pionk has done well with either elite offensive (morrissey) or defensive (samberg) partners. and then mid or worse with the rest but i don't think he's ever really been the type to carry a pair except probably w/ forbort in the CDN Division year. the bad numbers with Stanley aren't a surprise, probably Fleury too.
I would agree with you. It appears the ship has sailed on Heinola. I think there is enough talent there for a NHL career, but he needs to have a lot more offense to his game to make up for the defensive side. Probably worse for him is how he looks on the ice. It is hard for a coach to shake off the scared teenager look he portrays, rightly or wrongly. I don't think any GMs are really interested in what he brings.
My guess is he will likely get one last shot next year with Schenn as a partner for a run of games.
If he doesn't do anything he's waived.
It's a shame as he plays with a lot of spunk and is good at d at the AHL level but he just doesn't have the confidence and/or ability to play that way at the NHL level.
He's at an age where he has to earn a longer leash by juat playing his game.
He's likely a player who should have been moved years ago while he still had some value.
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My eye test tells me Sammy is growing into a #2 now which is why he can carry lesser talent to satisfactory results on the 2nd pair. Neil struggles to “carry” lesser talent to decent results on the 2nd pair. I really like how Pionk plays with Samberg because Neil gets to play with a strong partner. I am less of a fan when he is away from him. Last season I thought Neil and Dillon were “ok”. To me Neil is an ideal #4 puck moving, offensive asset, on the second pair but he is not built to carry a #6 type.
Also I think Neil is replaceable if we can’t sign him. Both Dillon and DeMelo were solid top 4 D men we picked up for draft picks, Chevy just needs to make a similar deal happen.
I would be ok signing Neil to a new contract.
The problem is the defense. You don't get to play offense without it. I see the way other teams play him. They look for contact and drop him on his ass. If every team knows to do that then every team knows they don't want him because of it.
I see both sides of the argument in heinolas case:
He hasn't really done himself any favors when he's played, outside a couple strong efforts
But
He hasn't really had a run of games to really get comfortable and work out the kinks
Then you add his terrible luck with injuries, and the fact the the Jets were hell bent on making Stanley a regular.
At the end of the day, the Jets were probably one of the worst orgs for Heinola to be in at this time.
Being a true contender the last couple of years, and having a D makeup of smaller guys and lack of physicality made it hard to add another small, non physical guy to the lineup.
I think the org was really trying to make Stanley into a schenn, but this season it became obvious that is just not him as a player.
The proof of that is, they actually went out and got the real Schenn, and when we were healthy, Stan was out.
I think playoffs are going to reinforce that Stanley will never be what the org wanted him to be, and maybe, JUST MAYBE, the org will start fresh in TC with a plan to play Ville and Luke together.
In the end, it will be up to Heinola to make that last chance count. He's going to have to train like he never has before and finally show the promise that made him a first round draft puck.
Over the past two seasons:
Samberg with Pionk: 54 CF% and 56.2 xG%
Samberg without Pionk: 51 CF% and 49.9 xG%
Id argue that Samberg has been playing with better players than Pionk when they’re not together.
Just curious…how did this become the Pionk, Samberg, Heinola thread? 
