Ego vs Immortality Framed Forever

[Blueline2757]

Smart move by Army.

No it wasn't. But I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

No it wasn't. But I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you.

You just did.

 

[Blueline2757]

You just did.

Whatever

 

[Celtic Note]

On the topic of loyalty, it’s completely overvalued and way too often. The only time loyalty works is when you have two parties that exhibit equal amounts of it toward each other and when they are doing things on the up-and-up. All those other times, loyalty is wasted as it can be a highly exploitive endeavor. It also gives people an out for doing unethical things.

*These are general statements about loyalty and not explicitly written about the situation at hand.

 

[TheDizee]

I'd rather see 57 on the rafters and in statue. That guy came back TWICE. He wanted to be here.

AND...he won the Cup like Petro.

IMO, DP57 was our best player in the regular season that ended with COVID. He also gave a shit during the COVID Cup. Outside of his occasional offensive zone penalties, he plays to win.

I know, DP will never make the rafters, he will never be a statue, but he's what you want. He WANTS to be here.

ya perron wanted to be here and took less to do so. but according to a ton of people we should retire captain creampuff's number after he ditches us for every penny he can get, all while claiming hes a "family guy" as he goes right off to LAS VEGAS. LOL it sounds so farfetched but its the reality.

when I think of family towns and communities to raise three young kids, LAS VEGAS is clearly first on my list!! Why would I wanna stay in the city where my wife and her family is from when I can sign (for less money overall mind you) in the family friendly city of Las Vegas!

i will never forget the dallas series a few years ago where Benn used him as his own personal Lazyboy chair and 27 literally just took it. Thats why I laugh so much when people compare him to Pronger, can you imagine Pronger acting that way LOL



Toodaloo 27 you will get a nice applause and video when you return and nothing more. I respect Backes a hell of a lot more as a leader and captain though. Thanks for the cup though and good luck.

 

[Blueline2757]

ya perron wanted to be here and took less to do so. but according to a ton of people we should retire captain creampuff's number after he ditches us for every penny he can get, all while claiming hes a "family guy" as he goes right off to LAS VEGAS. LOL it sounds so farfetched but its the reality.

when I think of family towns and communities to raise three young kids, LAS VEGAS is clearly first on my list!! Why would I wanna stay in the city where my wife and her family is from when I can sign (for less money overall mind you) in the family friendly city of Las Vegas!

i will never forget the dallas series a few years ago where Benn used him as his own personal Lazyboy chair and 27 literally just took it. Thats why I laugh so much when people compare him to Pronger, can you imagine Pronger acting that way LOL



Toodaloo 27 you will get a nice applause and video when you return and nothing more. I respect Backes a hell of a lot more as a leader and captain though. Thanks for the cup though and good luck.

Wow such saltiness

 

[DatDude44]

Maybe I'm overreacting but after some of the stuff I'm seeing. I always though Petro was good person and class act. Now my views of him has changed.

In years past, we all had to deal with former Blues players like Hull, Shanahan and Pronger hoisting the Cup in Jerseys other then the Note. I have a framed picture of the first ever Blues player to hoist the Cup hanging on the wall in my office...a moment that made me so proud to be an Blues fan and proud for all other and orginal Blues fans from the team’s inception and it was a moment that brought tears to my eyes. Thinking of every single player that so proudly wore that Jersey and worked so hard to bring the Cup to St. Louis. A picture that would probably be the mold of another statute to be displayed outside the Enterprise Center next to Hull, MAC and Ferderko And now to have that player a team captain no less essentially leave for what??? To trade all the honor, prestige and immortality that lies within the Blues community to be “THAT CAPTAIN” to bring home the Cup just for you to TURN YOUR BACK makes me shake my head now when I look at that picture...when it should have always brought a sense of joy to look upon it for the rest of my life...it now also brings a sense of disappointment of a player’s loss of a sense of where he stood in The Blues storied history then, now and in the future sad when personal pride obscures a person’s vision. I just want to take that picture down and put in storage room. Former Blues that understand the history of the Note and the honor they hold for having played for it...for a hell of a lot less money as well!!! Players that will always be welcomed to any Blues reunion hard to imagine a reunion for Petro when he chose to turn his back from the franchise even if he was the first Blues Player and Captain ever to hoist the Cup and even if he will forever be immortalized in that picture and even if his ego stood in his way to see that.

He’s done so much for this organization and brought our first cup, how can anyone hate Petro. And not the organization, for trading for and extending Faulk who’s been nothing but a bum for us, then paying krug. It’s a business and the blues couldn’t retain Petro for under 9 which is an embarassement to Armstrong. Petro is well worth 9-9.5 and vegas got him under 9...... I understand the cap ceiling being frozen at 81.5 but for **** sakes pay your top 10 in the league #1 all around Defenceman

 

[fallingquarters]

when I think of family towns and communities to raise three young kids, LAS VEGAS is clearly first on my list!! Why would I wanna stay in the city where my wife and her family is from when I can sign (for less money overall mind you) in the family friendly city of Las Vegas!

I understand why you feel the way you do. But it's not like he's ditching the Blues to let his triplets crawl around on the casino floor. Las Vegas is just a regular, arid hellscape of a city. He'll probably be in Summerlin in a big McMansion living the exact same boring suburban family life that he'd have in Creve Coeur or wherever.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I'd rather see 57 on the rafters and in statue. That guy came back TWICE. He wanted to be here.

AND...he won the Cup like Petro.

IMO, DP57 was our best player in the regular season that ended with COVID. He also gave a shit during the COVID Cup. Outside of his occasional offensive zone penalties, he plays to win.

I know, DP will never make the rafters, he will never be a statue, but he's what you want. He WANTS to be here.

I could get behind an effort to recognize Perron. I know he doesn’t meet the usual standard for things like this, but I’d be pleased to see 57 retired.

 

[Xerloris]

ya perron wanted to be here and took less to do so. but according to a ton of people we should retire captain creampuff's number after he ditches us for every penny he can get, all while claiming hes a "family guy" as he goes right off to LAS VEGAS. LOL it sounds so farfetched but its the reality.

when I think of family towns and communities to raise three young kids, LAS VEGAS is clearly first on my list!! Why would I wanna stay in the city where my wife and her family is from when I can sign (for less money overall mind you) in the family friendly city of Las Vegas!

i will never forget the dallas series a few years ago where Benn used him as his own personal Lazyboy chair and 27 literally just took it. Thats why I laugh so much when people compare him to Pronger, can you imagine Pronger acting that way LOL



Toodaloo 27 you will get a nice applause and video when you return and nothing more. I respect Backes a hell of a lot more as a leader and captain though. Thanks for the cup though and good luck.

Not only did he not have the balls to defend himself but not a single person on the team cared either. What would happen if someone did that to Steen?

 

[Blueline2757]

He’s done so much for this organization and brought our first cup, how can anyone hate Petro. And not the organization, for trading for and extending Faulk who’s been nothing but a bum for us, then paying krug. It’s a business and the blues couldn’t retain Petro for under 9 which is an embarassement to Armstrong. Petro is well worth 9-9.5 and vegas got him under 9...... I understand the cap ceiling being frozen at 81.5 but for **** sakes pay your top 10 in the league #1 all around Defenceman

I didn't mean that stuff i said about him and i take it back the emotion of him leaving got the better of me. I don't hate on him. He did what was best for him and his family. It's a business after all. Atmstrong made a massive mistake he should've just gave Petro what he wanted.

I know Petro did a lot for the Blues organization and St. Louis and the Blues will dearly miss him.

 

[Majorityof1]

ya perron wanted to be here and took less to do so. but according to a ton of people we should retire captain creampuff's number after he ditches us for every penny he can get, all while claiming hes a "family guy" as he goes right off to LAS VEGAS. LOL it sounds so farfetched but its the reality.

when I think of family towns and communities to raise three young kids, LAS VEGAS is clearly first on my list!! Why would I wanna stay in the city where my wife and her family is from when I can sign (for less money overall mind you) in the family friendly city of Las Vegas!

i will never forget the dallas series a few years ago where Benn used him as his own personal Lazyboy chair and 27 literally just took it. Thats why I laugh so much when people compare him to Pronger, can you imagine Pronger acting that way LOL



Toodaloo 27 you will get a nice applause and video when you return and nothing more. I respect Backes a hell of a lot more as a leader and captain though. Thanks for the cup though and good luck.

As can be expected from this poster, comments about LV being an awful place to raise a family are just ignorant. It's not like he would be living in downtown Vegas. For the most part, most major cities are nice if you go to where the millionaires live. They will have great schools, nice houses and safe neighborhoods. Vegas is no exception. Saying Vegas isn't a good place to raise a family because it has the strip is like saying St. Louis is a bad place to raise a family because of the crime downtown and racial issues in Ferguson. People who know St. Louis know the statement is made out of ignorance because those issues do not touch Clayton, and the other areas where an athlete would live.

 

[Em etah Eh]

Wow such saltiness

He’s from the STL area and he should know better than to paint a town with such a broad brush. OMG, Krug chose Saint Louis? I hope he buys bullet proof glass for all of his vehicles...

As if Vegas doesn’t have nice suburbs to raise a family...

 

[Cotton McKnight]

Why in sports does loyalty only go one way when it comes to fans anger? The athlete is the loyal dog who is expected to run through fire for its owner. But nobody questions the owner's loyalty for telling his "beloved" dog to run through mother-f***ing fire. I don't know, that's probably a mixed metaphor, or a plain bad analogy. The point is that it takes two to tango, there are two sides to every story and all that jazz. The athlete shouldn't be expected to take whatever offer the team gives him strictly out of loyalty regardless of how he's been treated.

As a point of clarification, my issue with Armstrong is not "disloyalty" but stupidity in tying $13M up for 7 years on two god awful defensive D-men while letting a good one go. Its a roster construction issue , not a loyalty, honor, immortality or any of that nonsense.

Sure, Krug and Faulk are questionable I'll give you that. My issue with AP27 was his open and not so honest attempts to get fans to side with him during the negotiations, only to try to force the Blues to take a long term contract that could blow up in their face if he were to get injured or if his productivity were to fall off (talking about NMC/NT clauses). When I saw the term of the contract he signed I gulped for a minute (meaning that was what we likely would have accepted) and then remembered he wanted to hold the Blues feet to the fire with a NMC clause in the later years and bonuses in an attempt to prevent a buyout. The NMC and the attempt to prevent ever being bought out tells me he expects to fall off, not do the job and still get paid, that's no good. He is not going to be a HOF player, unless he sets the world on fire in Vegas and is the catalyst for getting them multiple cups. Outside of the SC winning year I was never really high on Petro, he always lived up to his "creampuff" namesake, and I'll always remember he attempt at being a park bench for Benn.

I'd rather see 57 on the rafters and in statue. That guy came back TWICE. He wanted to be here.

AND...he won the Cup like Petro.

IMO, DP57 was our best player in the regular season that ended with COVID. He also gave a shit during the COVID Cup. Outside of his occasional offensive zone penalties, he plays to win.

I know, DP will never make the rafters, he will never be a statue, but he's what you want. He WANTS to be here.

Oh man, this is exactly how I feel too!

 

[DeuceNine]

I back the team. I don't back individual players, and I don't care even what city the team is in. To me, unless there was no effort to make a good faith honest offer to the player, at some point if that player doesn't want to show any loyalty that's on him. I hope he does well, but not at our expense. He's an asset like a truck or other piece of capital. We move on.

 

[TruBlu]

I back the team. I don't back individual players, and I don't care even what city the team is in. To me, unless there was no effort to make a good faith honest offer to the player, at some point if that player doesn't want to show any loyalty that's on him. I hope he does well, but not at our expense. He's an asset like a truck or other piece of capital. We move on.

To expand on this. We already know that DA went outside of his comfort zone in offering a partial nmc. The money Petro accepted was close to what he was offered here. There's evidence that army bargained in good faith, but the evidence points to the fact that Petro was never going to budge on his nmc. DA wanted the ability to make moves when Petro started to decline. Petro, knowing he'd decline before the end of that contract, didn't want to get shipped out when he did start to decline. Petro went to vegas because it was best for him. DA didn't do the nmc because it was not what was best for the team. It really is that simple.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

To expand on this. We already know that DA went outside of his comfort zone in offering a partial nmc. The money Petro accepted was close to what he was offered here. There's evidence that army bargained in good faith, but the evidence points to the fact that Petro was never going to budge on his nmc. DA wanted the ability to make moves when Petro started to decline. Petro, knowing he'd decline before the end of that contract, didn't want to get shipped out when he did start to decline. Petro went to vegas because it was best for him. DA didn't do the nmc because it was not what was best for the team. It really is that simple.

I don't blame Petro for not budging on the NMC. Other comparable players around the league had it, why couldn't he? He had watched Perron, Oshie and Backes get moved off the roster unceremoniously when they didn't want to leave or didn't want to leave but wanted to be shown some appreciation for their time, blood, sweat and tears and instead got shown the curb; why couldn't he as the captain of the Cup-winning team and then then-longest tenured player and the unquestioned #1D on the roster, who'd been here through the lousy days back in the Andy Murray and Davis Payne eras and stuck it out instead of demanding a trade at some point and jumping like his past buddies, get full protection from similarly being moved against his wishes?

Everyone else has agreed to not get a full NTC at the end of their deals because they know they'll be on the decline. So? Frankly, they're not nearly as well-regarded players and their styles of play make it more likely they'll decline to the point of being sub-replacement sooner. Faulk has one vote for a major award since his rookie year: a 5th for the Norris in '15. Steen has a scattering of votes for the Selke and three votes for the Hart (3rd, 4th, 5th) in '14. Krug has two votes for the Norris - a 2nd in '17, a 5th in '20. Schenn is still waiting for his first vote for any NHL end-of-season award, at any level; his top award otherwise is being named the week's 1st star in the NHL on December 11, 2017. Pietrangelo has a ton of votes for the Norris across the years that's lead to a 4th (2013), 5th (2014) and 4th (2020) place finish; said another way, he's got more 1st place votes for the Norris for his career than Faulk, Schenn and Krug have total votes for all major NHL awards excluding the Calder.

That tells you what others around North America think of him - and teams pay for that accordingly, and provide benefits for those players accordingly that they won't give to lesser-regarded players.

As I think Vladdy Gumption stated: if you want to argue that no one is special, we can't just hand stuff out because someone thinks they are, fine. That's your choice. Just know that you're probably going to lose out on high-end FAs who'd like to come here, you're going to have a more difficult time of retaining high-end FAs you have when their contracts expire, and over time you're going to end up at a competitive disadvantage unless you've got a top-tier development system that's cranking out bona fide NHL players. [Spoiler: we don't.] If you're OK with that, go for it.

 

[TruBlu]

I don't blame Petro for not budging on the NMC. Other comparable players around the league had it, why couldn't he? He had watched Perron, Oshie and Backes get moved off the roster unceremoniously when they didn't want to leave or didn't want to leave but wanted to be shown some appreciation for their time, blood, sweat and tears and instead got shown the curb; why couldn't he as the captain of the Cup-winning team and then then-longest tenured player and the unquestioned #1D on the roster, who'd been here through the lousy days back in the Andy Murray and Davis Payne eras and stuck it out instead of demanding a trade at some point and jumping like his past buddies, get full protection from similarly being moved against his wishes?

Everyone else has agreed to not get a full NTC at the end of their deals because they know they'll be on the decline. So? Frankly, they're not nearly as well-regarded players and their styles of play make it more likely they'll decline to the point of being sub-replacement sooner. Faulk has one vote for a major award since his rookie year: a 5th for the Norris in '15. Steen has a scattering of votes for the Selke and three votes for the Hart (3rd, 4th, 5th) in '14. Krug has two votes for the Norris - a 2nd in '17, a 5th in '20. Schenn is still waiting for his first vote for any NHL end-of-season award, at any level; his top award otherwise is being named the week's 1st star in the NHL on December 11, 2017. Pietrangelo has a ton of votes for the Norris across the years that's lead to a 4th (2013), 5th (2014) and 4th (2020) place finish; said another way, he's got more 1st place votes for the Norris for his career than Faulk, Schenn and Krug have total votes for all major NHL awards excluding the Calder.

That tells you what others around North America think of him - and teams pay for that accordingly, and provide benefits for those players accordingly that they won't give to lesser-regarded players.

As I think Vladdy Gumption stated: if you want to argue that no one is special, we can't just hand stuff out because someone thinks they are, fine. That's your choice. Just know that you're probably going to lose out on high-end FAs who'd like to come here, you're going to have a more difficult time of retaining high-end FAs you have when their contracts expire, and over time you're going to end up at a competitive disadvantage unless you've got a top-tier development system that's cranking out bona fide NHL players. [Spoiler: we don't.] If you're OK with that, go for it.

We'll see how it turns out for vegas. My personal opinion is that DA has been doing the gm thing a long time, and a handful of guys screaming at the top of their lungs on hfboards about how bad of a job he's done probably doesn't make him lose any sleep. We've done just fine under the system he's laid out here; we're a year out from a cup win. I don't know if you guys are best friends with Petros third cousin or what, but you can follow him in vegas if you're that upset about him not being signed here. It is what it is. He's gone, and not everyone on this board, in fact, the majority seem to still be pretty optimistic about the near and, thanks to not giving the nmc clause on an 8 year contract, distant future. Petros a great player. I wish him no ill will, but I don't buy the argument that top tier free agents won't come here because of no move clauses. Top tier players want to go where they have a team that can compete for a cup. As long as we continue to make decisions that allow us to move out declining contracts we'll be fine.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I don't know if you guys are best friends with Petros third cousin or what, but you can follow him in vegas if you're that upset about him not being signed here.

Yeah, that's it. We're all 3rd cousins of Petro and signed up en masse years ago when Petro was like 14 or so, knowing he was going to get drafted by the Blues in a few years and play for them for about the next 10 or 11 years after, and one day after a highly successful career with the Blues where he captained the team to a Cup he'd walk as a UFA - and when that day happened, we'd all be here to scream about it and tell you and everyone else what a massive ...

Look, I know 2020 is a weird year, and COVID is really screwing with the world, but that's still no excuse to make a dumb comment like that.

 

[TheDizee]

We'll see how it turns out for vegas. My personal opinion is that DA has been doing the gm thing a long time, and a handful of guys screaming at the top of their lungs on hfboards about how bad of a job he's done probably doesn't make him lose any sleep. We've done just fine under the system he's laid out here; we're a year out from a cup win. I don't know if you guys are best friends with Petros third cousin or what, but you can follow him in vegas if you're that upset about him not being signed here. It is what it is. He's gone, and not everyone on this board, in fact, the majority seem to still be pretty optimistic about the near and, thanks to not giving the nmc clause on an 8 year contract, distant future. Petros a great player. I wish him no ill will, but I don't buy the argument that top tier free agents won't come here because of no move clauses. Top tier players want to go where they have a team that can compete for a cup. As long as we continue to make decisions that allow us to move out declining contracts we'll be fine.

If its anything like the Elliott situation (OMG WE JUST TRADED THE GOALIE WHO TOOK US TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS!!!! WE ARE DOOMED!!!!), this board will basically be 1/3 St Louis Pietrangelo's talk and 2/3 Blues talk.

 

[Blueline2757]

We'll see how it turns out for vegas. My personal opinion is that DA has been doing the gm thing a long time, and a handful of guys screaming at the top of their lungs on hfboards about how bad of a job he's done probably doesn't make him lose any sleep. We've done just fine under the system he's laid out here; we're a year out from a cup win. I don't know if you guys are best friends with Petros third cousin or what, but you can follow him in vegas if you're that upset about him not being signed here. It is what it is. He's gone, and not everyone on this board, in fact, the majority seem to still be pretty optimistic about the near and, thanks to not giving the nmc clause on an 8 year contract, distant future. Petros a great player. I wish him no ill will, but I don't buy the argument that top tier free agents won't come here because of no move clauses. Top tier players want to go where they have a team that can compete for a cup. As long as we continue to make decisions that allow us to move out declining contracts we'll be fine.

I watched the Pietrangelo interview on the knights Twitter. I can read body language I could tell he didn't want to be there. He said he was happy to play for Vegas, But his body language said otherwise. I think he has regrets.

I hope it works out for him.

I disagree. I think it's not a good look on an organization, if i was a free agent and the one teams that i was interested in and see their captain walk coming off a cup win. I wouldn't want to go there. I think its a bad look

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I don't blame Petro for not budging on the NMC. Other comparable players around the league had it, why couldn't he? He had watched Perron, Oshie and Backes get moved off the roster unceremoniously when they didn't want to leave or didn't want to leave but wanted to be shown some appreciation for their time, blood, sweat and tears and instead got shown the curb; why couldn't he as the captain of the Cup-winning team and then then-longest tenured player and the unquestioned #1D on the roster, who'd been here through the lousy days back in the Andy Murray and Davis Payne eras and stuck it out instead of demanding a trade at some point and jumping like his past buddies, get full protection from similarly being moved against his wishes?

Everyone else has agreed to not get a full NTC at the end of their deals because they know they'll be on the decline. So? Frankly, they're not nearly as well-regarded players and their styles of play make it more likely they'll decline to the point of being sub-replacement sooner. Faulk has one vote for a major award since his rookie year: a 5th for the Norris in '15. Steen has a scattering of votes for the Selke and three votes for the Hart (3rd, 4th, 5th) in '14. Krug has two votes for the Norris - a 2nd in '17, a 5th in '20. Schenn is still waiting for his first vote for any NHL end-of-season award, at any level; his top award otherwise is being named the week's 1st star in the NHL on December 11, 2017. Pietrangelo has a ton of votes for the Norris across the years that's lead to a 4th (2013), 5th (2014) and 4th (2020) place finish; said another way, he's got more 1st place votes for the Norris for his career than Faulk, Schenn and Krug have total votes for all major NHL awards excluding the Calder.

That tells you what others around North America think of him - and teams pay for that accordingly, and provide benefits for those players accordingly that they won't give to lesser-regarded players.

As I think Vladdy Gumption stated: if you want to argue that no one is special, we can't just hand stuff out because someone thinks they are, fine. That's your choice. Just know that you're probably going to lose out on high-end FAs who'd like to come here, you're going to have a more difficult time of retaining high-end FAs you have when their contracts expire, and over time you're going to end up at a competitive disadvantage unless you've got a top-tier development system that's cranking out bona fide NHL players. [Spoiler: we don't.] If you're OK with that, go for it.

But, he left on his own accord. He went for the extra year from Boston. I don't understand Backes being on that list at all. Berglund on that list? Sure. But, not Backes.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

But, he left on his own accord. He went for the extra year from Boston. I don't understand Backes being on that list at all. Berglund on that list? Sure. But, not Backes.

I'm not saying every move was unjustified. (No, I wouldn't have given Backes 5/30 for $6M per. I'd have to go find notes to see what I was thinking would be fair.) I'm saying that in all of those situations, the player at least had some (a lot? a whole lot?) desire to stay here, and it didn't happen - and all of them were teammates of Pietrangelo that he grew in the NHL with and came to be a part of the team with.

Yes, add Berglund to that list.

 

[sfvega]

Fans will love you as long as you play for their team and play well. Very few of us missed Edmundson when he was shipped out as a business move. Well, it's still business when Petro leaves for better terms. They only owe the fans loyalty to the degree which fans show loyalty themselves. Same as when Pujols left, I hold no ill will. He played his tail off in this city, and deserves to go where he chooses. That's sports. He doesn't owe me shit.

 

[Matchbox 18]

One just has to look north to see why it was a smart move to not offer petro a full nmc. The hawks are saddled with 4 contracts on players they can’t do anything with, whom are now mad that they are having to go through a rebuild. You don’t saddle yourself by paying a guy on the wrong side of 30 nine million dollars and let him decide whether you can move him when he becomes dead weight.
Had petro been 28 no problem, but he will be 31 shortly after the season starts. We’re also in a pandemic that no one knows when it will return everything back to normal. I say cherish the good times with petro, thank him for his service and move on to trying to win the next cup. Getting nostalgic wins you nothing and will leave you like the trash up north.