Proposal: Edmonton - Colorado

[snipes]

Yeah, it does not. Not even close. RNH = Barrie.

Reasonable posters from both sides agree Nuge for Barrie is fair value.

Adding Nurse into this discussion creates obvious roadblocks. Nurse really has progressed that much this season, he's a treat to watch this year. He's 6'4 215 pounds and still skinny, he's likely 230-245 when fully filled out.

Nurse possesses elite skating, he worked this summer with Adam Oates and his puck handling skills are vastly improved. He can read the breakout and if nothing is available he can skate it out himself blowing by the forecheck. His controlled defensive zone exit % is excellent. Add in his nasty streak and ability to clear the front of the net and kill penalties at an elite level, he's not going anywhere.

Out of Klefbom, Larsson, and Nurse it is Nurse who likely has the highest ceiling given his physical gifts.

 

[El Travo]

Avs accept and shout "No backsies" before hanging up. Get RNH to play with MacK along with Nurse in exchange for Barrie and that one guy who shouldn't be in the lineup?

 

[snipes]

Avs accept and shout "No backsies" before hanging up. Get RNH to play with MacK along with Nurse in exchange for Barrie and that one guy who shouldn't be in the lineup?

Exactly, the fact that every Avs fan has mentioned how ridiculous this is for us gives me faith in the Avs fan base. They've always been a knowledgeable group.

Nurse isn't moving, he's not some throw in. Nurse for Gelinas? **** off. We're just starting to see Nurse establish himself, Oiler fans are a critical bunch and our consensus on Nurse is that we are ecstatic about his growth and development.

 

[PAZ]

RNH for Barrie is probably fair, it has been mentioned a lot.

I am not sure if it would be very enticing for Colorado, however, with Mack, Duchene, Grigorenko, and Soderberg all as natural centers and JT Compher and Tyson Jost not far off.

Its CO's strongest position from an organizational standpoint.

CO and EDM are simply a bad match trade wise.

Mack can really benefit from a playmaker, and RNH is one of the better ones 'available'. Avs fans are starting to worry about Mack ever taking the next step, and I personally don't have much faith in it happening unless either Rantanen becomes the answer or we make a trade.

Honestly, if the Avs are still sucking at the deadline I wouldn't mind seeing a Barrie for RNH swap. As everyone pointed out, Nurse isn't available. There isn't much difference in a Nurse-Gelinas or a Zadarov-Fayne swap, both are terrible.

 

[cbzblaze]

Can argue value all day but does this proposal help either team? I don't think so.
With the expansion draft coming up, oilers will not add another good D this season. especially with the way Nurse has played this year and he's exempt from the draft.
Avs arent exactly oozing defenceman that they can afford to lose Barrie. They are a team trying to take the next step and could probably use another good defenceman over a center.

If I was the oilers, I wouldn't even do the RNH for Barie swap. RNH gets so under appreciated for the work he puts in. He's actually a really important piece to the oilers, even if fans think his offensive stats should be better.

 

[Meeqs]

To Edmonton:

Tyson Barrie
Eric Gelinas

To Colorado:

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Darnell Nurse

It's no secret Barrie for RNH has been rumoured heavily in the past. There were also talks about Yakupov for Gelinas before the Devils settled for a 3rd round pick instead. Colorado gets RNH to play with MacKinnon who can move to the wing.

So Colorado gets weaker on an already thin defense to add a 7th center to their roster in a deal where Edm fans wont like the Value.

Don't think there is much to go with here.

 

[snipes]

So Colorado gets weaker on an already thin defense to add a 7th center to their roster in a deal where Edm fans wont like the Value.

Don't think there is much to go with here.

Nuge for Barrie has consensus as being equal.

We're left with Nurse for Gelinas. Lets flip it, would you trade Zadorov for Fayne?

 

[Tweaky]

As an Avs fan, I would have to think long and hard about this. The absolute value is definitely in Colorado's favor. The relative value may not be. Barrie is a high end offensive RHD. They have very few RHD at all in the organization. As stated by others, the Avs have quite a few natural centers. And none of them are truly suited to smashmouth hockey (MacKinnon could be an exception if he gets the playoff/tourney motor gong all the time). So in that sense, RNH does not fit. But they are short on top6 forwards, and some of our centers could slide to wing quite easily. MacK seemed to have good chemistry with RNH at the WCoH, so I think it would work. But work well enough to offset losing Barrie?...that I don't know. Nurse for Gelinas is a slam dunk for the Avs. And is lopsided enough to make losing Barrie less of a problem...except for being LHD, which would cause a bit of a logjam until Beauchemin is gone at least (Zadorov, Bigras, Lindholm, etc, plus the other scrubs). Nurse will be better than 3rd pair, as is Zads already, and Bigras should be. The others may or may not be, and having too many top4 LD is a nice problem to have....maybe one or more could swap sides?

In the end, I do it, just because of how much gap there is between Nurse and Gelinas at the moment. And without his early season surge this year, I am not sure I would. 1/8th of a season is a very small sample, and n response to the poster above asking if the same argument would be made if he was struggling...yes. Oiler fans would be arguing small sample is not indicative of poor play, with the rest of us saying it is just a continuation of last season, so it is at least more trustworthy. As it is, I see it as a positive sign of development, and worth the risk...not a guarantee that he has already taken that next step.

 

[Balthazar]

RNH for Barrie makes sense IF the AVS somehow manage to get Trouba. I think it's time for the AVS to put Mackinnon on a line with a playmaker. He's been at his absolute best during his rookie year when he was playing with Stastny and also with good playmakers during international tournaments (including RNH).

It all depends on what the AVS would have to give in return for Trouba.

I think that window has come and gone with Barrie

Barrie is kinda not lookin that good anymore.

Oilers would profit immensely from Barrie. He really is the missing piece of their puzzle.

 

[snipes]

^

Nurse is completely off the table. His name being mentioned is insulting. Gelinas? No!!!

Using basic hockey evaluation, it's obvious how talented Nurse is. You just don't find high IQ, 6'4 D men who will be 225-240ish will elite skating and can play in all situations.

After McDavid, Nurse is probably the most untouchable Oiler.

 

[Jumptheshark]

RNH for Barrie is a push
Nurse for Gelinas is lopsided

Gelinas would be in a battle to be a 5/6 guy in Edmonton(Larsson, Klefbom, Sekera, Barrie being the top 4)

Nurse has stepped in up this year bigtime

 

[Jumptheshark]

and just to add--Nurse only has one less point then Barrie has at this point in time

 

[snipes]

and just to add--Nurse only has one less point then Barrie has at this point in time

Plus Barrie gets 3:17 mins/game of PP time and only plays 0:22 mins/game of PK time.

Nurse plays on the 1st team PK unit, Nurse is the 1st pairing D on the 3rd best PK % team in the NHL. Nurse only gets 0:04 mins/game of PP time. Nurse gets 4 seconds and Barrie gets over 3 mins/game yet has just 1 more point.

Barrie also sits at -8, Nurse is at a +/- of 0 and has a better Corsi for %. Add in Nurse being a better skater, 6'4 215+, and his mean streak. Honestly, I'd take Nurse over Barrie right now. Especially considering Nurse is cheaper and expansion draft exempt.

Barrie doesn't really have an argument over Nurse in terms of where they are right now.

 

[Homesick]

Is Nurse only worth a 3rd round pick now? Gelinas will probably be on waivers before the end of the season and will definitely be expansion bait

It looks to me like the Oilers are going to slowly slide Benning into that 2nd pairing RHD role. He's had some struggles but he definitely doesn't look out of place in the NHL.

I doubt the Oilers would even move RNH for Barrie at the deadline unless both are really struggling and both teams are fed up with their respective players. Plus if the Oilers are in a playoff spot why ruin the chemistry with a major shake up?

 

[Goulet17]

Colorado is not going to trade Barrie for RNH. It makes no organizational sense and it requires a great deal of illogical rationalization to support the idea IMO. It has nothing to do with RNH's ability as a player or trade value, it is simply a matter of organizational depth and need.

As I mentioned previously, EDM and CO are bad trade fits because they are built similarly in terms of organizational depth. They are both stronger with skilled forwards and centers than with defense.

On another note, I really like Nurse. I think he can develop into a modern day Adam Foote. People forget that in Foote's prime he could match up with Keith Tkachuk in one game and Pavel Bure the next. Foote was big, strong, nasty, and he could really, really skate. He could also chip in 30-35 points in his prime. Scoring is down, so I am not sure that Nurse will consistently produce the same point totals, but he brings some potentially strong versatility in his defensive game.

Nurse, Klefbom, and Larsson are a great top 3 core to build a team around IMO. I do think that Oilers fans need to temper some of their praise on Nurse, however, particularly comparing offensive numbers to Tyson Barrie based on a 10 game sample size. If you think that Nurse is going to be on the same level as Barrie offensively, then you likely believe that Nurse will become far and away the best defensemen in the NHL. I realize that is probably a hyperbolic statement, but I just think that a little perspective is required at times.

 

[snipes]

Colorado is not going to trade Barrie for RNH. It makes no organizational sense and it requires a great deal of illogical rationalization to support the idea IMO. It has nothing to do with RNH's ability as a player or trade value, it is simply a matter of organizational depth and need.

As I mentioned previously, EDM and CO are bad trade fits because they are built similarly in terms of organizational depth. They are both stronger with skilled forwards and centers than with defense.

On another note, I really like Nurse. I think he can develop into a modern day Adam Foote. People forget that in Foote's prime he could match up with Keith Tkachuk in one game and Pavel Bure the next. Foote was big, strong, nasty, and he could really, really skate. He could also chip in 30-35 points in his prime. Scoring is down, so I am not sure that Nurse will consistently produce the same point totals, but he brings some potentially strong versatility in his defensive game.

Nurse, Klefbom, and Larsson are a great top 3 core to build a team around IMO. I do think that Oilers fans need to temper some of their praise on Nurse, however, particularly comparing offensive numbers to Tyson Barrie based on a 10 game sample size. If you think that Nurse is going to be on the same level as Barrie offensively, then you likely believe that Nurse will become far and away the best defensemen in the NHL. I realize that is probably a hyperbolic statement, but I just think that a little perspective is required at times.

Thanks for the kind analysis.

We don't think Nurse will be a Barrie type numbers producer. We're realistic with him, I was just pointing out how good he is doing, honestly he's crushing it. We have him as a #5 and 1st pairing PK D man.

Darnell is beasting in that role. Next year, we might move him up to a #4 role and give him some PP time. But right now, we want him on our PK unit being tough as nails. Darnell is earning everything he gets, the Swedes are our golden boys. Nurse isn't being handed anything.

Look up his controlled defensive zone exit %. Nurse is elite moving the puck out of the defensive zone up ice. His passing ability and making his 2nd or 3rd read are vastly improved. If no passing lanes are available, he'll use his elite speed to cross the red line and dump the puck in. Watching Nurse blow by the forecheck is a sight to see, Darnell can skate!!

The analytics support the eye test, Nurse is trending towards elite territory. Plus he'll be 6'4 225-240ish with elite skating and he has a very high IQ. Yes please, I want Darnell on my team all day.

 

[Jumptheshark]

So Colorado gets weaker on an already thin defense to add a 7th center to their roster in a deal where Edm fans wont like the Value.

Don't think there is much to go with here.

Adding nurse does not make Avs weaker by a long shot

 

[KlefDown]

With the way Nurse has been playing this season, and with the added bonus of him being expansion draft exempt, it would take a lot to pry him from Oilers.
RNH - Barrie straight is still on the table though.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Adding nurse does not make Avs weaker by a long shot

it does when they loose a better of the 2 dmen......

if you lose 3 but add two, you're still down one.

 

[RegDunlop]

Nurse with intangibles is almost equal to Barrie now.
Absolutely no way he is on the table save for a major swing.

RNHs value is extremely high. You can totally forget about Gelinas. Not even close. In fact, I'm not so sure that RNH-Barrie straight across gets done from Oiler stand point right now.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

When they talked in June apparently Colorado asked for Hall or Draisaitl for Barrie. Edmonton was pushing for RNH. The answer would likely lay somewhere in the middle but adding Nurse is too much.

 

[cgf]

Problem is that the Avs need Barrie a lot more than they do RNH or Nurse; especially with how fantastic Zadorov is looking this season.

 

[KingTux]

I don't think EDM wants to move RNH. He is a very good Center to have behind McDavid

 

[McspOiler]

I honestly think nudes 2 way game has made him a fav for tmac I would see drai going for high value before nuge

 

[The Kingslayer]

Oilers say no lol