Proposal: EDM/STL and EDM/TB

[McSuper]

Or he pulls an Ales Hemsky and gets hurt right before the deadline and we get Jack squat for him at the deadline. You don't deal our 1st unless we are in playoff contention at the deadline or you get a long term solution.

That is always a possibility . Any player can get hurt at anytime and you can not build a team around the worries of a player getting hurt . Should we trade McDavid because he could sustain a career ending injury in the future ? Shatterkirk can also help the young guys to develop their O side of the game just as Oates help Edmonton centres become better in the face off circle . I certainly understand the risk of 2 young guys breaking out which I think would be the case with Reinhart as St Louis has the depth to shelter him and bring him along slowly but there are risk both ways with this trade , it is not all one sided . I also think Yakupov best chance of breaking out is with Edmonton . We could not say this before but with 3 scoring lines he can play and put up points with McD or he gets soft 3rd line minute with Draisaitl .

 

[Dbrownss]

Or he pulls an Ales Hemsky and gets hurt right before the deadline and we get Jack squat for him at the deadline. You don't deal our 1st unless we are in playoff contention at the deadline or you get a long term solution.

What happens when Yak and Reinhart continue to be busts, Shattenkirk helps the Oilers make the playoffs, thus making that 1st a most likely 20th+....

So Stl just traded a prized dman for 2 scrubs and a bleh pick. Stop acting like the Oilers shoulder all the risk

 

[belair]

It's not a ridiculous price to pay at all. Just look at what Yandle got for the Coyotes.... Duclair, Moore, a 1st, and a 2nd.... for basically Shattenkirk plus an extra couple months.

Reinhart and Yakupov are not exactly prized prospects at this point like Duclair. They've both got major question marks, and any hope that they'll fulfill their draft day potential is probably wishful thinking at best.

I don't hate the proposal, as Yakupov at least fulfills a positional need, but I'd probably rather just keep Shattenkirk for the year.

And how does that deal look in hindsight?

That was a Cup contending team trading their depth for someone to help put them over the top. This deal is a team at the bottom trading important, cheap future pieces for a guy who's going to walk in seven months. I'm not even going to talk about Shattenkirk the player, because the idea of the deal is downright awful.

 

[tony d]

Edmonton and St.Louis maybe do these deals but I can't see Tampa doing it whatsoever.

 

[Ranksu]

Edmonton is the only team what Shattenkirk has noted out to public he doesn't wanna go.

Sad how many Yakupov proposals there is in the first page.

 

[belair]

Edmonton is the only team what Shattenkirk has noted out to public he doesn't wanna go.

Sad how many Yakupov proposals there is in the first page.

Agreed.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

What happens when Yak and Reinhart continue to be busts, Shattenkirk helps the Oilers make the playoffs, thus making that 1st a most likely 20th+....

So Stl just traded a prized dman for 2 scrubs and a bleh pick. Stop acting like the Oilers shoulder all the risk

No offense but as a fan of the Oilers or if I was in management I wouldn't care what risks the opposing team is taking if they accept a deal. The bottom line is that Shattenkirk doesn't want to be in Edmonton so we have 1 year of his services if all goes well. If he signed an extension before this deal I'd add value to our proposed package but he isn't. I'm not moving our 1st for 1 year or less of Shattenkirk period, we are not a cup contender and wouldn't be even with Shattenkirk this season.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

That is always a possibility . Any player can get hurt at anytime and you can not build a team around the worries of a player getting hurt . Should we trade McDavid because he could sustain a career ending injury in the future ? Shatterkirk can also help the young guys to develop their O side of the game just as Oates help Edmonton centres become better in the face off circle . I certainly understand the risk of 2 young guys breaking out which I think would be the case with Reinhart as St Louis has the depth to shelter him and bring him along slowly but there are risk both ways with this trade , it is not all one sided . I also think Yakupov best chance of breaking out is with Edmonton . We could not say this before but with 3 scoring lines he can play and put up points with McD or he gets soft 3rd line minute with Draisaitl .

You should not throw away 1st round picks for a guy that will walk in less than 1 years time unless he is the final piece for a cup run.

We have McDavid's rights for 6 more seasons so if you think that it's the exact same situation then I'm not going to waste more time on this beyond this post.

Yeah Shattenkirk will help all of our D become more offensive just by being there, may as well hire Coffey as a skating and offensive defenseman coach if it's that easy.

This trade makes no sense for us beyond this season.

 

[Dbrownss]

No offense but as a fan of the Oilers or if I was in management I wouldn't care what risks the opposing team is taking if they accept a deal. The bottom line is that Shattenkirk doesn't want to be in Edmonton so we have 1 year of his services if all goes well. If he signed an extension before this deal I'd add value to our proposed package but he isn't. I'm not moving our 1st for 1 year or less of Shattenkirk period, we are not a cup contender and wouldn't be even with Shattenkirk this season.

From the rumors around the draft, Edmonton still wants Shattenkirk even with the knowledge he doesn't want to stay there. The rumor was since he wouldn't agree to an extention, they wanted a huge addition to Shattenkirk for Hall or supposedly offered RNH straight across. This says Chiarelli feels he could convince Shattenkirk to stay once he's in Edmonton. It's not too hard to beleive either, get in on the ground floor of what should be a powerhouse team.


That package as I said is pretty boom/bust for Stl....leaning towards only the 1st being a valuable piece. Even then....with the roster they have, if they don't make the playoffs, I would be extremely shocked. You have wild question marks in Anaheim and LA. It's not hard to project the Oilers making the playoffs, especially with Shattenkirk, At the expense of 2 players who woefully failed to meet expectations and a 1st. As another poster said, if Shattenkirk's mind isn't changed. A contender will cough up a 1st and most likely more at the TDL.

 

[bluetuned]

And how does that deal look in hindsight?

That was a Cup contending team trading their depth for someone to help put them over the top. This deal is a team at the bottom trading important, cheap future pieces for a guy who's going to walk in seven months. I'm not even going to talk about Shattenkirk the player, because the idea of the deal is downright awful.

Whether the Yandle deal worked out for the Rangers doesn't change the fact that it's the going rate for a trade like this. It's a pretty standard deal for a player of Shattenkirk's caliber.

And since when are Yakupov and Reinhart 'important, cheap future pieces' at this point? They're not. They're both 4 years out from their draft year and not even remotely the players that they were projected to be. Yak is behind McDavid, Draisaitl, Puljujarvi, Eberle, Lucic, and RNH among your forwards. You're all hoping and praying that McDavid can carry him to a decent season this year.

Those two guys and a 1st is a very reasonable price to pay for a defenseman who could realistically help push your team into the playoffs for the first time in a decade.

 

[belair]

Whether the Yandle deal worked out for the Rangers doesn't change the fact that it's the going rate for a trade like this. It's a pretty standard deal for a player of Shattenkirk's caliber.

And since when are Yakupov and Reinhart 'important, cheap future pieces' at this point? They're not. They're both 4 years out from their draft year and not even remotely the players that they were projected to be. Yak is behind McDavid, Draisaitl, Puljujarvi, Eberle, Lucic, and RNH among your forwards. You're all hoping and praying that McDavid can carry him to a decent season this year.

Those two guys and a 1st is a very reasonable price to pay for a defenseman who could realistically help push your team into the playoffs for the first time in a decade.

First off, there's no 'going rate' in the NHL. Trades happen because two sides agree to the price they're willing to pay for the player(s) they covet. A few years ago Paul Gaustad got the Sabres a first at the deadline. Is that the 'going rate' for checking line centres now? The Rangers made a bad trade. That didn't set the precedent for anything.

Secondly, Griffin Reinhart is still a very valuable piece to the Oilers' puzzle on defense. He's not fully developed at this moment and trading him would be a foolish waste of assets. He's 22 and eight months younger than Jordan Schmaltz, who Blues fans seem to think is a future top 4 guy still. Funny how that works.

The 1st is the definition of a cheap future piece.

And Nail Yakupov is what he is. He's a highly skilled player who hasn't found a consistent role on this team. He's going to be a depth player this year and he's either going to a)play well and stay, b)play well and get traded for value, c)play poorly and get traded for little or d)play however and get selected by Las Vegas.

Regeardless of this all, these pieces mean a lot more to Edmonton long-term. Especially when Kevin Shatterkirk laces up his skates as a New York Ranger in 2017.

 

[Spektre]

If it's ever made public that Army turned down RNH straight up for Shattenkirk even though Edm knew Shattenkirk didn't want to resign, it should cement Army as a derelict.

If Berglund + 4th rd pick returns Yakupov I'd want more than a 1st for Shattenkirk. Army is already a derelict for not trading Shattenkirk. I refuse to believe Army will let Shattenkirk walk into UFA. Shattenkirk should fetch a 1st + a good prospect at the TDL.

 

[BluesTraveller]

If it's ever made public that Army turned down RNH straight up for Shattenkirk even though Edm knew Shattenkirk didn't want to resign, it should cement Army as a derelict.

If Berglund + 4th rd pick returns Yakupov I'd want more than a 1st for Shattenkirk. Army is already a derelict for not trading Shattenkirk. I refuse to believe Army will let Shattenkirk walk into UFA. Shattenkirk should fetch a 1st + a good prospect at the TDL.

No way does he trade him at the TDL if we are in the thick of a playoff race, which we should be.

Blues fans need to come to grips with the fact that he will most likely walk. At the very least, we get him in a contract year and after last year, he is due to rebound.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Edmonton is the only team what Shattenkirk has noted out to public he doesn't wanna go.

Sad how many Yakupov proposals there is in the first page.

Where exactly did Shattenkirk say he doesn't want to go to Edmonton. I'll sit back and wait for you to provide a link to the quote. Thanks.

 

[ChuckLefley]

No thanks. I would rather keep Shattenkirk and try to re-sign him.

And pay $6m+ for someone to play on the third pair? He is not surpassing Petro or Parayko, neither are going to switch to the left side and he isn't either.

 

[PaulGG]

Tampa isn't desperate for cap space and surely would not fool with our roster unless it clearly made us better for the upcoming season. After the season some guys are going to move.

 

[Dbrownss]

Where exactly did Shattenkirk say he doesn't want to go to Edmonton. I'll sit back and wait for you to provide a link to the quote. Thanks.

The talk was Shattenkirk(extended) for Hall. Shattenkirk's agent told Edmonton he wasn't interested in an extention. Also worth note is that Shattenkirk provided Armstrong with 5 teams he would extend with, not exclusively in the east.

 

[McHaNugYakEbNurDra]

Tampa isn't desperate for cap space and surely would not fool with our roster unless it clearly made us better for the upcoming season. After the season some guys are going to move.

Assuming General Fanager is correct, Tampa has ~$6.6 million in space this year, with Kucherov and Nesterov still to be signed. I assume that the two of them sign for more than $6.6 million for this coming season, leaving me to wonder how you figure Tampa isn't desperate for cap space? (I'm going to ignore the next year implications and assume you are correct that 'some guys are going to move' before next years resignings of Johnson, Palat, Bishop?, Drouin).

I assume that if Tampa Bay wasn't 'desperate for cap space' that Kucherov and Nesterov would have already been resigned...no?

 

[Spektre]

No way does he trade him at the TDL if we are in the thick of a playoff race, which we should be.

Blues fans need to come to grips with the fact that he will most likely walk. At the very least, we get him in a contract year and after last year, he is due to rebound.

Wasn't Army shopping Shattenkirk at the TDL last season when the Blues were in a playoff run? The only difference this year is he'll be more forced to find a trade partner.

 

[bluetuned]

First off, there's no 'going rate' in the NHL. Trades happen because two sides agree to the price they're willing to pay for the player(s) they covet. A few years ago Paul Gaustad got the Sabres a first at the deadline. Is that the 'going rate' for checking line centres now? The Rangers made a bad trade. That didn't set the precedent for anything.

Secondly, Griffin Reinhart is still a very valuable piece to the Oilers' puzzle on defense. He's not fully developed at this moment and trading him would be a foolish waste of assets. He's 22 and eight months younger than Jordan Schmaltz, who Blues fans seem to think is a future top 4 guy still. Funny how that works.

The 1st is the definition of a cheap future piece.

And Nail Yakupov is what he is. He's a highly skilled player who hasn't found a consistent role on this team. He's going to be a depth player this year and he's either going to a)play well and stay, b)play well and get traded for value, c)play poorly and get traded for little or d)play however and get selected by Las Vegas.

Regeardless of this all, these pieces mean a lot more to Edmonton long-term. Especially when Kevin Shatterkirk laces up his skates as a New York Ranger in 2017.

Of course there is a 'going rate' for trades. Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule, but players of Shattenkirk's caliber typically get traded for something along the lines of a lesser established NHL roster player (Yakupov), a prospect (Reinhart), and a 1st.

For examples of this, just look at Ryan to Ottawa, Lucic to LA, Yandle to the Rangers, etc. Obviously every deal is different, but that's what a player like Shattenkirk returns in a trade. Ladd got the Jets a 1st and Dano as a deadline rental. A full season of Shattenkirk unquestionably warrants more in return, which is what this proposal is.

Reinhart may still become a serviceable NHL player or even a top 4 defenseman, sure, but that's part of giving up value to get to get value. The reason why his specific scenario is different than a guy like Schmaltz is because Reinhart's stock as a prospect has basically plummeted in the years since his draft. That hasn't happened with Schmaltz, who still projects to be about as good as what we expected when we picked him. Also most Blues fans haven't exactly penciled him into the Top 4 either, certainly not with Petro and Parayko already there. We think Schmaltz can be a cheaper version of Shattenkirk who won't be wasted on the 3rd pairing like Shattenkirk will be. That's a lot different than calling him a Top 4 guy.

You may not have any interest in making a trade like this because you still have high hopes for your guys, and that's totally fine, but you're off-base if you think this is too much for a player of Shattenkirk's caliber. He helps your back end in a huge way this year and can realistically help push you into the playoffs for the first time in 10 years. And if you're still not in playoff contention by the time the deadline rolls around, you'd easily get a 1st+ back in return by flipping him to a contender.

 

[belair]

Of course there is a 'going rate' for trades. Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule, but players of Shattenkirk's caliber typically get traded for something along the lines of a lesser established NHL roster player (Yakupov), a prospect (Reinhart), and a 1st.

For examples of this, just look at Ryan to Ottawa, Lucic to LA, Yandle to the Rangers, etc. Obviously every deal is different, but that's what a player like Shattenkirk returns in a trade. Ladd got the Jets a 1st and Dano as a deadline rental. A full season of Shattenkirk unquestionably warrants more in return, which is what this proposal is.

Reinhart may still become a serviceable NHL player or even a top 4 defenseman, sure, but that's part of giving up value to get to get value. The reason why his specific scenario is different than a guy like Schmaltz is because Reinhart's stock as a prospect has basically plummeted in the years since his draft. That hasn't happened with Schmaltz, who still projects to be about as good as what we expected when we picked him. Also most Blues fans haven't exactly penciled him into the Top 4 either, certainly not with Petro and Parayko already there. We think Schmaltz can be a cheaper version of Shattenkirk who won't be wasted on the 3rd pairing like Shattenkirk will be. That's a lot different than calling him a Top 4 guy.

You may not have any interest in making a trade like this because you still have high hopes for your guys, and that's totally fine, but you're off-base if you think this is too much for a player of Shattenkirk's caliber. He helps your back end in a huge way this year and can realistically help push you into the playoffs for the first time in 10 years. And if you're still not in playoff contention by the time the deadline rolls around, you'd easily get a 1st+ back in return by flipping him to a contender.

Examples they are. They're examples of why GMs should avoid these types of trades like the plague. And we're talking about contending teams. What the hell are the Oilers, a team currently in the cellar of the NHL standings going to do with a player that doesn't want to be there in June? He could be Paul Coffey in his prime (which he isn't) and it wouldn't do them any good in the long run.

And your example at the end, trading him at the deadline...remember the Isles and Thomas Vanek? How did that work out for them? Not too good.

And as I've said before, the Oilers path to a Western division title goes through St Louis. So giving them three good shots at cheap depth players for a guy heading East is awful, awful value for them.

If Shattenkirk does get traded this season, I'd wager it's to a contender. I'd put money on that. Will he get similar value? That's up for debate, obviously. 1st rounders aren't traded as openly as before and GMs have gotten pretty frugal at the deadline in recent years. But what I can tell you for certain is that the Oilers would have to be brain-dead to consider this deal.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

From the rumors around the draft, Edmonton still wants Shattenkirk even with the knowledge he doesn't want to stay there. The rumor was since he wouldn't agree to an extention, they wanted a huge addition to Shattenkirk for Hall or supposedly offered RNH straight across. This says Chiarelli feels he could convince Shattenkirk to stay once he's in Edmonton. It's not too hard to beleive either, get in on the ground floor of what should be a powerhouse team.


That package as I said is pretty boom/bust for Stl....leaning towards only the 1st being a valuable piece. Even then....with the roster they have, if they don't make the playoffs, I would be extremely shocked. You have wild question marks in Anaheim and LA. It's not hard to project the Oilers making the playoffs, especially with Shattenkirk, At the expense of 2 players who woefully failed to meet expectations and a 1st. As another poster said, if Shattenkirk's mind isn't changed. A contender will cough up a 1st and most likely more at the TDL.

I call BS. That would make the Hall trade (for those that thought that it was a bad trade) look like a coup for the Oilers. There's no way in hell that Chia would've offered RNH for Shattenkirk if he already said that he wasn't interested in an extension.

The 1st IMO is the most valuable piece in the deal seeing we've drafted top 10 for the last 8 years including a majority of them being top 5. That said a non extended Shattenkirk would not return much ore than that if the team landing him doesn't think that he'd stay.

If he gets hurt prior to the deadline or gets a Vanek like return like Snow did you piss away a number of useful trade assets to improve your team long term. I've heard that this draft is deep in RHD, if so I'd be even more inclined to hold onto the pick unless a long term solution is coming in.

If it's ever made public that Army turned down RNH straight up for Shattenkirk even though Edm knew Shattenkirk didn't want to resign, it should cement Army as a derelict.

If Berglund + 4th rd pick returns Yakupov I'd want more than a 1st for Shattenkirk. Army is already a derelict for not trading Shattenkirk. I refuse to believe Army will let Shattenkirk walk into UFA. Shattenkirk should fetch a 1st + a good prospect at the TDL.

No doubt, I call BS on the bolded.

I'd consider moving our 1st for Shatt if we were close to a playoff spot at the deadline, but before the season starts without him committing to an extension? Too risky for my blood especially if he allegedly already told us that he wouldn't extend with us.

The talk was Shattenkirk(extended) for Hall. Shattenkirk's agent told Edmonton he wasn't interested in an extention. Also worth note is that Shattenkirk provided Armstrong with 5 teams he would extend with, not exclusively in the east.

All eastern teams and Colorado would be my guess.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Examples they are. They're examples of why GMs should avoid these types of trades like the plague. And we're talking about contending teams. What the hell are the Oilers, a team currently in the cellar of the NHL standings going to do with a player that doesn't want to be there in June? He could be Paul Coffey in his prime (which he isn't) and it wouldn't do them any good in the long run.

And your example at the end, trading him at the deadline...remember the Isles and Thomas Vanek? How did that work out for them? Not too good.

And as I've said before, the Oilers path to a Western division title goes through St Louis. So giving them three good shots at cheap depth players for a guy heading East is awful, awful value for them.

If Shattenkirk does get traded this season, I'd wager it's to a contender. I'd put money on that. Will he get similar value? That's up for debate, obviously. 1st rounders aren't traded as openly as before and GMs have gotten pretty frugal at the deadline in recent years. But what I can tell you for certain is that the Oilers would have to be brain-dead to consider this deal.

Not to mention the GM's that made those trades wanted those players long term and only 1 of the 3 actually signed. Lucic would've stayed in LA if they had the cap space, meanwhile Yandle bolted the first chance that he got and had more than a single season left on his deal when he was dealt IIRC. Shattenkirk has a single season left and he's allegedly already said that he doesn't want to sign in Edmonton, add that to the team not being a legit contender and........ It makes no sense unless you are hell bent on making sure that we don't break the record of playoff futility.

 

[belair]

Not to mention the GM's that made those trades wanted those players long term and only 1 of the 3 actually signed. Lucic would've stayed in LA if they had the cap space, meanwhile Yandle bolted the first chance that he got and had more than a single season left on his deal when he was dealt IIRC. Shattenkirk has a single season left and he's allegedly already said that he doesn't want to sign in Edmonton, add that to the team not being a legit contender and........ It makes no sense unless you are hell bent on making sure that we don't break the record of playoff futility.

Even the one that signed still pales in comparision to the price his team paid to get him.

Tons and tons of examples of teams on the losing end.

 

[zar]

To St. Louis:

RW Nail Yakupov
LD Griffin Reinhart
EDM 1st 2017

To Edmonton:

RD Kevin Shattenkirk

Reasoning: With no club in his preferred conference willing to pony up the assets that Blues management is seeking, Edmonton would be acquiring Shattenkirk as a pure rental. His value in this trade reflects that; a young roster forward with potential upside, a prospect defenceman with significant pedigree and an unprotected pick are all useful pieces to a team that is undergoing a bit of a refresh.

Before anyone objects, realize that the package presented here is very similar to the one that fetched Keith Yandle from Arizona in 2015. That the pieces might be lesser- Duclair looks to be a better player than Yakupov, and Reinhart needs to establish himself to be considered on par even with John Moore- is fair given that Yandle was traded with 1.5 years of service left. Edmonton, on the other hand, will only have Shattenkirk for 1.

To Tampa Bay:

RD Mark Fayne (20% retained)

To Edmonton:

C Valtteri Filppula
RD Dylan Blujus
RD Luke Witkowski

Reasoning: With the Lightning pressed right up to the cap and Kucherov yet to sign, something has to give. Tampa frees up $2M in space- just enough to squeak in both of their Russian RFAs- at the price of two young right-handers who have a clearer path to an NHL job in Edmonton. The Lightning have drafted and developed well, and can easily surrender such players thanks to Andrej Sustr, Nikita Nesterov, Slater Koekkoek, Jake Dotchin and Ben Thomas all either in the NHL or on the way there.

Edmonton, meanwhile, fetches a veteran Finnish center to anchor their third line and help countryman Jesse Puljujarvi acclimate to North America.



Milan Lucic-Connor McDavid-Jordan Eberle
Patrick Maroon-Ryan Nugent-Hopkins-Leon Draisaitl
Benoit Pouliot-Valteri Filppula-Jesse Puljujarvi
Matt Hendricks-Mark Letestu-Zack Kassian
Anton Lander Iiro Pakarinen

Andrej Sekera-Kevin Shattenkirk
Oscar Klefbom-Adam Larsson
Brandon Davidson-Dylan Blujus/Luke Witkowski/Matt Benning/PTO
Jordan Oesterle

Cam Talbot
Jonas Gustavsson

Cap- $4.5M



Schwartz-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Steen-Stastny-Fabbri
Perron-Berglund-Yakupov
Upshall-Brodziak-Rattie/Jaskin
Ryan Reaves Magnus Paajarvi

Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Gunnarsson-Parayko
Edmundson-Schmaltz
Bortuzzo

Allen
Hutton

Cap- $4.7M



Palat-Johnson-Kucherov
Drouin-Stamkos-Killorn
Brown-Namestnikov-Callahan
Paquette-Boyle-Condra
Gabriel Dumont Joel Vermin

Hedman-Stralman
Garrison-Sustr
Nesterov-Coburn
Fayne

Bishop
Vasilevskiy

Cap: $219K

... and who are the Oilers protecting in the Expansion Draft?

Obviously would be going 8+ Talbot

Must Protects due to NMC
1. Milan Lucic
2. Valteri Filppula
3. Andrej Sekera
4. Kevin Shattenkirk (you have to be counting on re-signing him and he would demand a NMC)

IMO, the next four would be...
5. Oscar Klefbom
6. Adam Larsson
7. Leon Draisaitl
8. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

Left available for Las Vegas...
Jordan Eberle
Brandon Davidson
Benoit Pouliot
Patrick Maroon

You can't make these moves and be forced to expose Eberle and Davidson.

I would not want any part whatsoever of Filppula and his brutal contract.

It is understood that Shattenkirk would not sign in Edmonton, so it make zero sense to give up what is being offered for him unless it is felt the Oilers are competing for the Cup this year, which they won't be.