Confirmed with Link: [EDM/BUF] McLeod + Tullio for Matt Savoie

[Mr Positive]

Trading McLeod wasn't necessarily the best for the Oilers with hindsight but it was the best for him. It was a self reflection trade. I doubt he ever becomes the player he is on Buffalo with the Oilers. If people are thinking we are getting the same guy from Buffalo, you're mistaken.

It can be the best for the Oilers if we would need to open up the wallet to keep him. It's better to get Savoie for him rather than lose him for some offer sheet. Getting Savoie is great imo as he has the better chance to replace an aging top sixer of ours

 

[CycloneSweep]

Just clarifying.
So what aspects of the team do you have a positive take on?

I’m positive about Bouchard and think he is just going thru a slow period like he did last year.
I have said multiple times that I think our Pk is still good cause statistically it is, but our goaltending is letting it down.
McDavid and Draisaitl are always positives. Ekholm is still so good.

It can be the best for the Oilers if we would need to open up the wallet to keep him. It's better to get Savoie for him rather than lose him for some offer sheet. Getting Savoie is great imo as he has the better chance to replace an aging top sixer of ours

The trade itself wasn’t bad, it’s what they did to replace him that was underwhelming to bad. We had to trade him away because we signed Skinner who isn’t gritty, physical either but is awful defensively and his offensive game has fallen off a cliff it seems. Objectively good trade but the situation around it hasn’t been great.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I’m also positive about some things hockey.

Unlike you.

You thrive on negativity, enjoy bringing posters down to your level.


Eberle was also a much better player than McLeod when he was traded

McLeod’s in zone defense was almost as bad as eberle before he got traded

Dude I literally post positive things all the time, not my fault you thrive at yelling at other peoples negativity.

 

[La Bamba]

Even if McLeod becomes a decent player for the Sabres and Savoie ends up being a bust, I’ll still be happy McLeod is off the team. His boneheaded giveaways will always piss me off

 

[ThePhoenixx]

17

5

6

11

+7

 

[Shanahanigans]

This “ you can’t win with McLeod” BS is untrue , we made it to game 7 of the cup finals, and 2 final 4 appearances in 3 years with him anchoring our bottom 6. Once again, it’s a classic case of missing the forest for the trees. McLeod as a 3C or a bottom 6 play driver is an incredibly valuable player. Guess what, there are parts of the game he struggles with, like everyone else! Good teams complement those strengths , like we did when we acquired Henrique, who isn’t the play driver that McLeod is but better along the walls and making the “hard” play.

We will see how this trade plays out but McLeod has been vastly under appreciated by this fan base. He’s a great homegrown 3C and his struggles can be supported by shoring up other parts of the roster , instead of getting rid of the player entirely. I’m glad we got Savoie but at this point , he is an unknown.

 

[Oilhawks]

This “ you can’t win with McLeod” BS is untrue , we made it to game 7 of the cup finals, and 2 final 4 appearances in 3 years with him anchoring our bottom 6. Once again, it’s a classic case of missing the forest for the trees. McLeod as a 3C or a bottom 6 play driver is an incredibly valuable player. Guess what, there are parts of the game he struggles with, like everyone else! Good teams complement those strengths , like we did when we acquired Henrique, who isn’t the play driver that McLeod is but better along the walls and making the “hard” play.

We will see how this trade plays out but McLeod has been vastly under appreciated by this fan base. He’s a great homegrown 3C and his struggles can be supported by shoring up other parts of the roster , instead of getting rid of the player entirely. I’m glad we got Savoie but at this point , he is an unknown.

He got scratched in the playoffs and almost single-handedly gave away a comfortable lead (with trademark soft play) vs Vancouver in game 7

Time will tell if he can perform at the highest level

 

[Old Boys Club]

McLeod's on a heater right now. Scoring on >1/3 of his shots and has a 13.5% OIsh% and 1.06 PDO. Has worse underlying numbers this year, is actually being outchanced at a 60/40 ratio.

I'd give it a bit, similar to Broberg in STL as up until his injury everything he touched went in (pts on 100% of goals while he was on ice) while his goalies had a 97% sv% with him on ice despite being out chanced.

 

[Shanahanigans]

He got scratched in the playoffs and almost single-handedly gave away a comfortable lead (with trademark soft play) vs Vancouver in game 7

Time will tell if he can perform at the highest level

Every player in the bottom 6 was scratched at a certain point in the playoffs. Thats the point, we had depth. That was a testament to the strength of our roster.

 

[Oilhawks]

Every player in the bottom 6 was scratched at a certain point in the playoffs. Thats the point, we had depth. That was a testament to the strength of our roster.

I've stated elsewhere that I am a fan of the player. I was not a fan of his unwillingness to go to the hard areas to make plays. The few times he did, he produced. He's a fine player but as @Old Boys Club pointed out, is on a heater, while most of the players on this team are cold.

This is all hindsight hand-wringing, everyone was celebrating the "summer of Jeff Jackson" with all of the 'great' signings he made. Those that are realistic and understand there is a cap knew that something had to give. And this trade was almost universally lauded here as further proof of JJ's 'genius' by clearing cap with an inconsistent player that was not performing in high pressure games while bringing in a top prospect to boot.

Probably a little too early to make a judgement on this trade, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Shanahanigans]

I've stated elsewhere that I am a fan of the player. I was not a fan of his unwillingness to go to the hard areas to make plays. The few times he did, he produced. He's a fine player but as @Old Boys Club pointed out, is on a heater, while most of the players on this team are cold.

This is all hindsight hand-wringing, everyone was celebrating the "summer of Jeff Jackson" with all of the 'great' signings he made. Those that are realistic and understand there is a cap knew that something had to give. And this trade was almost universally lauded here as further proof of JJ's 'genius' by clearing cap with an inconsistent player that was not performing in high pressure games while bringing in a top prospect to boot.

Probably a little too early to make a judgement on this trade, but maybe that's just me.

I see what you’re saying about the cap but I disagree that this is hindsight. This is what I said on this thread right after the trade:

Savoie is a top prospect but McLeod is getting heavily , heavily underrated here by the old school “hits and battles” crowd. We all love that. But McLeod is also one of the best zone exit players in the league on a bottom 6 and D core that struggles to break out, along with one of the best play driving bottom 6 centres in the league. His warts are what they are, if he was physical and battled more he’d be a 5 million dollar player instead of 2. He’s an incredibly useful player and I think this trade makes us worse in the short run.

Henrique was murdered possession wise as 3C in the regular season and playoffs for us, and was kept afloat by unsustainable on ice shooting + sv%. We got significantly older and slower in the bottom 6 by losing McLeod and Foegele.
I value McLeod higher than most , I remember the years before he got here and we were getting murdered in the non Mcdrai minutes. As soon as he gets here, our third line suddenly carries water and allows us to have a playable bottom 6. Savoie might turn out to be a stud, but I worry about a bottom 6 that suddenly got 10 years older and lost all their speed. I can almost guarantee we’ll be looking for a McLeod type shot suppression zone exit player by the deadline.

His contribution to the team was incredibly valuable in all the ways that may not make it onto the scoresheet. His softness frustrated me too but I’ll take it unless we find a better 3C option. I’m not sold that 34 year old Henrique is that option.

 

[Oilhawks]

I see what you’re saying about the cap but I disagree that this is hindsight. This is what I said on this thread right after the trade:

Fair enough, props for sticking to your guns. Some on here have been revising their views as if that was the view they always had.

 

[oobga]

This “ you can’t win with McLeod” BS is untrue , we made it to game 7 of the cup finals, and 2 final 4 appearances in 3 years with him anchoring our bottom 6. Once again, it’s a classic case of missing the forest for the trees. McLeod as a 3C or a bottom 6 play driver is an incredibly valuable player. Guess what, there are parts of the game he struggles with, like everyone else! Good teams complement those strengths , like we did when we acquired Henrique, who isn’t the play driver that McLeod is but better along the walls and making the “hard” play.

We will see how this trade plays out but McLeod has been vastly under appreciated by this fan base. He’s a great homegrown 3C and his struggles can be supported by shoring up other parts of the roster , instead of getting rid of the player entirely. I’m glad we got Savoie but at this point , he is an unknown.

It is pretty crazy to me how much people piled on McLeod. Like he isn’t allowed to be inexperienced and develop and learn anymore with 200 games under his belt and a few playoff years as a depth guy.

Extremely smart utility player with loads of speed and decent skill. Just needed to learn to handle big moments a bit better which is the case with loads of players that learn from mistakes and end up winning it all. But since our management operates like emotional fans his presence on the team was just intolerable.

 

[guymez]

It is pretty crazy to me how much people piled on McLeod. Like he isn’t allowed to be inexperienced and develop and learn anymore with 200 games under his belt and a few playoff years as a depth guy.

Extremely smart utility player with loads of speed and decent skill. Just needed to learn to handle big moments a bit better which is the case with loads of players that end up winning it all. But since our management operates like emotional fans his presence on the team was just intolerable.

This team has had a penchant for putting time and resources into developing players and then giving up on them before they become full time difference makers.
This IMO is another example of that.

 

[JustNapalmIt]

This team has had a penchant for putting time and resources into developing players and then giving up on them before they become full time difference makers.
This IMO is another example of that.

Yeah, just a mite early imo

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Savoie being cost controlled the next 2 3/4 years is going to come in very handy.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It is pretty crazy to me how much people piled on McLeod. Like he isn’t allowed to be inexperienced and develop and learn anymore with 200 games under his belt and a few playoff years as a depth guy.

Extremely smart utility player with loads of speed and decent skill. Just needed to learn to handle big moments a bit better which is the case with loads of players that learn from mistakes and end up winning it all. But since our management operates like emotional fans his presence on the team was just intolerable.

Yeah. I was one of his few fans here. Even started an appreciation thread on him. He wasn't well appreciated here despite the many things he did well and the development and upside that a player with this speed and skills could bring. To me he was going to get better. Its the type of player you should stick with regardless. McLeod is a guy that ticks a lot of boxes. Loved the player. of course he's gone.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Savoie being cost controlled the next 2 3/4 years is going to come in very handy.

IF he makes the NHL and actually plays well

 

[bucks_oil]

IF he makes the NHL and actually plays well

That's a very cynical statement for a kid who scored 71 points in 33 WHL games last year as a 19 year old, and 14 points in 19 games so far in his first few months of pro hockey.

It would be tough to find a player with boxcars like that completely wash out.

He's trending way above Yamamoto as one example (who we may all forget was a 40 point player before having his head knocked off).

Smaller players who Savoie's stat-lines compare well to (age for age) include: Stankoven (similar at age 19 and 20 up until Stankoven got called up), Gourde (Savoie way ahead), Marchand (pretty similar 1st year AHL numbers thus far), Marchessault (pretty similar 1st year AHL numbers so far).

I see him as a potential black ace this year.

 

[Jumptheshark]

That's a very cynical statement for a kid who scored 71 points in 33 WHL games last year as a 19 year old, and 14 points in 19 games so far in his first few months of pro hockey.

It would be tough to find a player with boxcars like that completely wash out.

He's trending way above Yamamoto as one example (who we may all forget was a 40 point player before having his head knocked off).

Smaller players who Savoie's stat-lines compare well to (age for age) include: Stankoven (similar at age 19 and 20 up until Stankoven got called up), Gourde (Savoie way ahead), Marchand (pretty similar 1st year AHL numbers thus far), Marchessault (pretty similar 1st year AHL numbers so far).

I see him as a potential black ace this year.

There is a big difference between JRS and the nhl. His size concerns me and others. One reason why buffalo had zero hesitation in trading him

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

There is a big difference between JRS and the nhl. His size concerns me and others. One reason why buffalo had zero hesitation in trading him

Buffalo had zero hesitation because they were desperate for a player like McLeod to be a middle-6 center, so they overpaid, and because they've been bad for so long, they have alot of prospects.

Don't invent things.

 

[CupofOil]

This team has had a penchant for putting time and resources into developing players and then giving up on them before they become full time difference makers.
This IMO is another example of that.

Yep, very frustrating, but in this case they got a high valued young asset back as opposed to mediocre picks in the past or guys like Spooner.

The problem is timeline really. The Oilers wanted to clear out his caphit and bring in more proven players. I don't like it necessarily because the Oilers need more size and speed not less but the value with Savoie was good at least.

With that said, I'd feel better about the Oilers chances especially going forward if they still had Broberg, Holloway and McLeod but now the Cup window has been significantly shrunk with these offseason moves. Hopefully good use will be made of the cap space with a player that can not only help this season but also be a longer term solution.

 

[bucks_oil]

There is a big difference between JRS and the nhl. His size concerns me and others. One reason why buffalo had zero hesitation in trading him

Of course there's a bit difference between Jrs and NHL. That's why I compared AHL stats as well - against other adult pros. And he's successfully made that leap, as well or better than the other smaller NHL players that I listed.

To date, there is zero actual cause for concern. Buffalo traded him because they are FLUSH with young talent and wanted McLeod.... a young C who has good advanced defensive stats. (if that's not an indictment of advanced stats, I don't know what is lol). Savoie's not going to transition as a pro-level center, but he can still be a darn good winger... not much to say contrary yet.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Of course there's a bit difference between Jrs and NHL. That's why I compared AHL stats as well - against other adult pros. And he's successfully made that leap, as well or better than the other smaller NHL players that I listed.

To date, there is zero actual cause for concern. Buffalo traded him because they are FLUSH with young talent and wanted McLeod.... a young C who has good advanced defensive stats. (if that's not an indictment of advanced stats, I don't know what is lol). Savoie's not going to transition as a pro-level center, but he can still be a darn good winger... not much to say contrary yet.

C'mon. McLeod offers much more than advanced defensive stats. He was one of our best players at zone outs/entries, moved well with puck, with his speed, and could push D back with that speed or get to pucks on forcheck with that speed. The player scored commensurate with usage, was a good pk player here and had generally sound 200ft game.

My interjection isn't regarding Savoie, I too feel positive about him as a prospect but some of the reactions are not in isolation to this deal. Its that the team obtained Savoie, a prospect, even while showing that it has little deference to its prospects in losing Broberg, Holloway, Lavoie outright, and McLeod in trade. This is a team with a terrible record of development and this is the team now that has Savoie.

But I don't know why on the board theres a constant tendency to denounce what we have over what we're getting. This being a dynamic here for decades in which any player lost/traded gets the gears here and almost any incoming is constantly over valuated.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Replacement, like with Arvidsson, you're angry because short. It's ok, that doesn't really matter.