Dzingel (Alarm) Bells

[bert]

Dzingel is a great player, that's not what's being/nor should be discussed.

What should be discussed is we won't be able to afford him + we need help elsewhere more importantly that his value can help with.

Well the thing is there is lots of cap space. With Dzingel being 26 and Duchene being 28 and Duchene likely bringing back a much much larger return that is who I would trade if they have to choose two of three UFA's to be. Duchene likely wants 10 million while Dzingel is probably in the 4.5 million dollar range and his age fits in better with the rebuild.

If the sens were run properly I would just want them to sign all three, dont take this as thinking I want the sens to trade Duchene its literally the opposite. Just from a rebuild asset management/money perspective Duchene might be the better guy to trade in the long run.

 

[Yourkeyparka]

Well the thing is there is lots of cap space. With Dzingel being 26 and Duchene being 28 and Duchene likely bringing back a much much larger return that is who I would trade if they have to choose two of three UFA's to be. Duchene likely wants 10 million while Dzingel is probably in the 4.5 million dollar range and his age fits in better with the rebuild.

If the sens were run properly I would just want them to sign all three, dont take this as thinking I want the sens to trade Duchene its literally the opposite. Just from a rebuild asset management/money perspective Duchene might be the better guy to trade in the long run.

Disagree. Duchene is a playmaker and scorer and a top line centre. Much more lethal offensively than Dzingel the winger who scores but does not impact the game like Duchene can. I will always keep the number 1 centre over a top 6 winger any day.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Why all this BS on Dzingel.. He is an offensive player. He has excellent speed. His hands have improved. He has a good shot. The list is very short on who is better on this roster right now.

 

[Yourkeyparka]

Why all this BS on Dzingel.. He is an offensive player. He has excellent speed. His hands have improved. He has a good shot. The list is very short on who is better on this roster right now.

Because he will be a UFA next year demanding more money than he is worth.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Because he will be a UFA next year demanding more money than he is worth.

What are his demands? If he becomes a UFA we won't have to worry about it.

 

[bert]

Disagree. Duchene is a playmaker and scorer and a top line centre. Much more lethal offensively than Dzingel the winger who scores but does not impact the game like Duchene can. I will always keep the number 1 centre over a top 6 winger any day.

That wasnt the debate at all. Not sure why you took it there. If you'd like to actually address the points I made feel free.

Because he will be a UFA next year demanding more money than he is worth.

First of all how do you know that? Second of all you clearly have an agenda towards the player so how can you be a properly evaluate the player at all?

 

[Yourkeyparka]

What are his demands? If he becomes a UFA we won't have to worry about it.

So then we lose him for nothing - brilliant asset management.

 

[Yourkeyparka]

First of all how do you know that? Second of all you clearly have an agenda towards the player so how can you be a properly evaluate the player at all?

I can evaluate based on what I see and what his stats are. People that have agendas also have opinions, just as valid as yours.

 

[BondraTime]

I can evaluate based on what I see and what his stats are. People that have agendas also have opinions, just as valid as yours.

Not all opinions are valid, no.

His stats for instance, you seem to be skipping over the part he's on his way to a ~60 point season by calling him a 40 point forward.

You're looking for him to fail, as we can all plainly see by the pathetic "he's -1 response" as soon as they scored. Makes it very obvious, along with seemingly coming out of nowhere with this thread.

What about every other goal, going to comment on all the guys at fault there, or just going for your agenda?

I have no issues trading Dzingel, but these criticisms are completely foolish looking at this team, akin to the "Hoffman useless, so bad defensively" narrative we had last year.

 

[Yourkeyparka]

Not all opinions are valid, no.

His stats for instance, you seem to be skipping over the part he's on his way to a ~60 point season by calling him a 40 point forward.

You're looking for him to fail, as we can all plainly see by the pathetic "he's -1 response" as soon as they scored. Makes it very obvious, along with seemingly coming out of nowhere with this thread.

What about every other goal, going to comment on all the guys at fault there, or just going for your agenda?

I have no issues trading Dzingel, but these criticisms are completely foolish looking at this team, akin to the "Hoffman useless, so bad defensively" narrative we had last year.

I find your opinion invalid. Eyes don't lie. He'll get nowhere near 60 points this year or any other. Give your head a good shake.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

60 points for Dzingel is very possible. I think he lands closer to 50, but it's not an insane suggestion that he could keep this pace up.

People said the same shit about Hoffman and he proved them wrong real quick.

 

[BondraTime]

I find your opinion invalid. Eyes don't lie. He'll get nowhere near 60 points this year or any other. Give your head a good shake.

I find yours invalid, more than invalid actually.

I trust my eyes 10000000 times more than yours, some offence

 

[BondraTime]

60 points for Dzingel is very possible. I think he lands closer to 50, but it's not an insane suggestion that he could keep this pace up.

People said the same **** about Hoffman and he proved them wrong real quick.

It's like clockwork

 

[alfstheman]

Disagree. Duchene is a playmaker and scorer and a top line centre. Much more lethal offensively than Dzingel the winger who scores but does not impact the game like Duchene can. I will always keep the number 1 centre over a top 6 winger any day.

The biggest issue isnt whether we open the wallet for Duchene (which is a question whether melnyk will pay appropriate bonuses), its will Duchene sign even if offered a fair contract?

Pretty sure that he will be gone by the TDL since he wants to win a cup and thats not happening anytime soon with the Sens, and getting something is better than nothing even if its an underwhelming return which it will be with Dorion at the table...

I think Dzingle will want to stay with the sens as he is pretty much guaranteed a top 6 role for the forseeable future. His speed plays a nice complementary role even if he isnt as dominant as Duchene

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's like clockwork

Yup. Always driving our skill players away for bs reasons while making sure we re-up the grinders!

 

[coladin]

If Duchene is out long term, ti will be interesting to see what Dzingel can manufacture without him. This is going to be quite the revelation either way. If he is going to command 5M+, it will be time for him to show it.

 

[Korpse]

I have no issues trading Dzingel, but these criticisms are completely foolish looking at this team, akin to the "Hoffman useless, so bad defensively" narrative we had last year.

I think a lot of it is preference of player. Hoffman while extremely skilled, left a lot to be desired defensively and not becuase he couldn’t be better. He could, he just wasn’t willing to buy in, I see a lot of the same tendencies with Dzingel but isn’t in the same tier of skill set. I think it’s a fair criticism.

Pointing out Dzingel was a minus wasn’t the right way to go about the discussion but let’s not act like there aren’t players who are unfairly criticized by the hour becuase a poster doesn’t like them.

 

[BondraTime]

I think a lot of it is preference of player. Hoffman while extremely skilled, left a lot to be desired defensively and not becuase he couldn’t be better. He could, he just wasn’t willing to buy in, I see a lot of the same tendencies with Dzingel but isn’t in the same tier of skill set. I think it’s a fair criticism.

Pointing out Dzingel was a minus wasn’t the right way to go about the discussion but let’s not act like there aren’t players who are unfairly criticized by the hour becuase a poster doesn’t like them.

The guys who are the whipping horses (Ceci, Pyatt, Boro) are so for a reason. They continuously make bad plays as players who are there for defending and making smart plays. Dzingel isn't out there for that, his job is literally to provide offense, which he is. It's like getting mad at Methot when he isn't making the right plays offensively.

Dzingel isn't there for defense, he's a North-South skater who is there for offense. Dzingel isn't s defensive player, not sure why we are expecting him to be. He never has, and never will be. He's a 2nd line offensive guy, who is producing like an offensive 2nd line guy.

Hoffman was never a defensive player. Never has, never will be. We decided he needed to play with guys like Pyatt and Pageau because of his "defense". Literally destroying what could be a shut down line, as well as Hoffman as an offensive guy.

If you're expecting guys like Dzingel and Hoffman to play as though they are Bergeron and Barkov, they won't. They are 1 dimensional offensive wingers, who have been, and are, playing like 1 dimensional offensive wingers.

 

[GCK]

The guys who are the whipping horses (Ceci, Pyatt, Boro) are so for a reason. They continuously make bad plays as players who are there for defending and making smart plays. Dzingel isn't out there for that, his job is literally to provide offense, which he is. It's like getting mad at Methot when he isn't making the right plays offensively.

Dzingel isn't there for defense, he's a North-South skater who is there for offense. Dzingel isn't s defensive player, not sure why we are expecting him to be. He never has, and never will be. He's a 2nd line offensive guy, who is producing like an offensive 2nd line guy.

Hoffman was never a defensive player. Never has, never will be. We decided he needed to play with guys like Pyatt and Pageau because of his "defense". Literally destroying what could be a shut down line, as well as Hoffman as an offensive guy.

If you're expecting guys like Dzingel and Hoffman to play as though they are Bergeron and Barkov, they won't. They are 1 dimensional offensive wingers, who have been, and are, playing like 1 dimensional offensive wingers.

So you are saying the Coaching decisions have been subpar.

I will agree.

 

[BondraTime]

So you are saying the Coaching decisions have been subpar.

I will agree.

I've been saying the coaching has been garbage since the cup run, nothing new there

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

So then we lose him for nothing - brilliant asset management.

So you said he was going to be a UFA. I was just saying if it gets that far we won't have to worry about it because he'd be gone.. I was not recommending letting him become a UFA.. go back and read your post.

 

[Korpse]

The guys who are the whipping horses (Ceci, Pyatt, Boro) are so for a reason. They continuously make bad plays as players who are there for defending and making smart plays. Dzingel isn't out there for that, his job is literally to provide offense, which he is. It's like getting mad at Methot when he isn't making the right plays offensively.

Dzingel isn't there for defense, he's a North-South skater who is there for offense. Dzingel isn't s defensive player, not sure why we are expecting him to be. He never has, and never will be. He's a 2nd line offensive guy, who is producing like an offensive 2nd line guy.

Hoffman was never a defensive player. Never has, never will be. We decided he needed to play with guys like Pyatt and Pageau because of his "defense". Literally destroying what could be a shut down line, as well as Hoffman as an offensive guy.

If you're expecting guys like Dzingel and Hoffman to play as though they are Bergeron and Barkov, they won't. They are 1 dimensional offensive wingers, who have been, and are, playing like 1 dimensional offensive wingers.

Definitely wouldn’t expect either player to be like Barkov or Bergeron. I don’t expect any forward to be. Wouldn’t expect them to be defensive players either but that doesn’t excuse them from any defensive responsibility, every player has to do their part. It’s a fair criticism imo, one he often gets a pass for. You look at Montreal’s first goal on Tuesday and I don’t care if it’s Conor McDavid you don’t get excused for that and it’s a pretty constant theme for Dzingel as it was for Hoffman. Personally not the type of player I want on my team, especially Dzingel who doesn’t generate offence at nearly a good enough rate to be given slack for his absent defensive play. But hey only blame the same players over and over for simply being on the ice at the time something goes wrong, and everything will be fine when there gone I guess.

 

[BondraTime]

Definitely wouldn’t expect either player to be like Barkov or Bergeron. I don’t expect any forward to be. Wouldn’t expect them to be defensive players either but that doesn’t excuse them from any defensive responsibility, every player has to do their part. It’s a fair criticism imo, one he often gets a pass for. You look at Montreal’s first goal on Tuesday and I don’t care if it’s Conor McDavid you don’t get excused for that and it’s a pretty constant theme for Dzingel as it was for Hoffman. Personally not the type of player I want on my team, especially Dzingel who doesn’t generate offence at nearly a good enough rate to be given slack for his absent defensive play. But hey only blame the same players over and over for simply being on the ice at the time something goes wrong, and everything will be fine when there gone I guess.

Are we watching the same team? There is one guy who is playing defensively an thats Stone. Every single other forward is doing flybys and cheating. Literally everyone. If you don't want that type of guy of guy on the team then Stone is the only forward that would still be here.

I never blamed anyone else, though I will blame guys who make the same mistakes game in and game out for the better part of 3 years. It just so happens that is the same 2-3 guys.

I understand that you are going to fire back at anyone blaming Ceci, that's the hill you've chose. Ceci is the only one to blame for his criticisms, which are more than warranted.

 

[aragorn]

Yup. Always driving our skill players away for bs reasons while making sure we re-up the grinders!

No one drove Hoffman away except maybe EK forced PD to trade him in order to keep him. That turned out to be a very bad play on PD's part since EK did not re-sign & hence, he lost two offensive players.

They also don't re-up the grinders, there has been plenty of grinders moved from this team over the yrs, in fact, more so than the offensive players. If Dzingel gets moved it will be because of the owner & money again or they are trying to stock pile assets for the future. It could be they are playing a longer game & have no intention of contending for a playoff berth this yr or next.

 

[Sentron5000]

Are we watching the same team? There is one guy who is playing defensively an thats Stone. Every single other forward is doing flybys and cheating. Literally everyone. If you don't want that type of guy of guy on the team then Stone is the only forward that would still be here.

I never blamed anyone else, though I will blame guys who make the same mistakes game in and game out for the better part of 3 years. It just so happens that is the same 2-3 guys.

I understand that you are going to fire back at anyone blaming Ceci, that's the hill you've chose. Ceci is the only one to blame for his criticisms, which are more than warranted.

I would say White is a pretty honest player.