Prospect Info: Dylan Cozens, C/RW, 2019 7th overall, Lethbridge (WHL) --- Signed to ELC

[Djp]

The bolded is an odd take

1) Sam had 23g 42pts as a rookie in his D+2 season. If Cozens did that it would be a pretty impactful rookie season.

2) If you were “paying attention” to Mitts development. You would see him stagnating in his D+1 season whereas Cozens took off in his. I don’t see Mitts helping much with figuring out expectations for Cozens.

There is a lot of bias in this analysis.

Mitts went from HS to college. He did great in WJC.

Cozens still played in CHL.

If Mitts played in CHL things likely similar.

Also remember on first full year production who they played with and how used in analysis.

 

[Djp]

Adding 40 points from a forward not stapled to Eichel would be huge for this team, especially if Cozens can do that as a center.

If he is stapled eith Eichel or on a second line with two of Skinner, Reinhart, vet 2C would put an asterisk on performance

Outside of PP , how much TOI did Mitts play with the big 3? Compare that with Cozens.

 

[joshjull]

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I'll just beat @Aladyyn to the punch on this one, Sam might not be the best example to use in this case.

In his D+2 season he played in a top 6 role and on the 1st PP unit, led the team in ES points, and was probably our best possession forward. If we bring Cozens into that type of role and get that season out of him I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

Does anyone have a subscription to Bader's site to see what Reinhart's chart looks like? I'd be curious to see how they compare in D+2.

 

[Fezzy126]

Does anyone have a subscription to Bader's site to see what Reinhart's chart looks like? I'd be curious to see how they compare in D+2.

I don't have access, but he posted this one of Sam back in March comparing him to LD (looks like his tool has changed a bit)

 

[jc17]

I don't have access, but he posted this one of Sam back in March comparing him to LD (looks like his tool has changed a bit)

While there's still a lot of chance involved, I think one factor that gets overlooked in his charts is the overall team and teammate quality. The next highest scoring forward on Prince Albert was not even a point/game

 

[flashsabre]

I hope that even if the NHL season starts Jan 1st that they send Cozens to the WJCs. That experience would be a big confidence boost and help catapult him to an NHL season. Cozens and Quinn would make Team Canada fun to watch.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I hope that even if the NHL season starts Jan 1st that they send Cozens to the WJCs. That experience would be a big confidence boost and help catapult him to an NHL season. Cozens and Quinn would make Team Canada fun to watch.

He would miss a couple games which isn't a big deal, but the problem is how much/if not all of training camp he won't be there for. A perfect scenario would have games starting after Jan 10 in which case he could get in some practice to see if he's ready or need to go back to the WHL

 

[Team Cozens]

I hope that even if the NHL season starts Jan 1st that they send Cozens to the WJCs. That experience would be a big confidence boost and help catapult him to an NHL season. Cozens and Quinn would make Team Canada fun to watch.

The NHL network has been lately hinting and discussing a FEBRUARY 1st start date.

 

[haulinbass]

There is nothing out of the ordinary about a D+1 player producing 85 points in 51 games in the WHL. That is exactly what a top 10 pick in junior hockey should produce. I couldn't imagine how long the list would be if we took every D+1 player who scored at a similar PPG clip over the last 10 years.

Nearly every top 10 pick who continues to play junior hockey against kids ramps hype during that season. Going to the NCAA, SHL, AHL all the way up to the NHL is when you start to actually find out what kind of player you have.

Lets wait until that happens before putting unfair expectations on Cozens relative to a junior hockey season.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

NHL is when you start to actually find out what kind of player you have.

Guess we'll start to find out soon

 

[jc17]

There is nothing out of the ordinary about a D+1 player producing 85 points in 51 games in the WHL. That is exactly what a top 10 pick in junior hockey should produce. I couldn't imagine how long the list would be if we took every D+1 player who scored at a similar PPG clip over the last 10 years.

Nearly every top 10 pick who continues to play junior hockey against kids ramps hype during that season. Going to the NCAA, SHL, AHL all the way up to the NHL is when you start to actually find out what kind of player you have.

Lets wait until that happens before putting unfair expectations on Cozens relative to a junior hockey season.

Yeah im not sure the point totals themselves are that impressive.

But he also had little help. If you look at some comparable scorers that didn't work out in the nhl, Shane prince had toffoli, leipsic had petan and rattie, etc.

Others led their teams like cozens and still busted, so no guarantees.

I'd be interested to know how meaningful the "development curve" is, whether the jumps from year to year matter or if the guy only cares about the most recent number

 

[Gabrielor]

There is nothing out of the ordinary about a D+1 player producing 85 points in 51 games in the WHL. That is exactly what a top 10 pick in junior hockey should produce. I couldn't imagine how long the list would be if we took every D+1 player who scored at a similar PPG clip over the last 10 years.

Nearly every top 10 pick who continues to play junior hockey against kids ramps hype during that season. Going to the NCAA, SHL, AHL all the way up to the NHL is when you start to actually find out what kind of player you have.

Lets wait until that happens before putting unfair expectations on Cozens relative to a junior hockey season.

I too want to set expectations properly for Cozens. I will say his spot on the team he'd potentially fill vs. what Mittelstadt had to do will be significantly in Cozens' favor (start at wing, plus competent veterans to play with).

That said, I still have questions about Cozens that only NHL time will answer (his ability to move the puck, think, and stickhandle at high speeds).

 

[joshjull]

There is nothing out of the ordinary about a D+1 player producing 85 points in 51 games in the WHL. That is exactly what a top 10 pick in junior hockey should produce. I couldn't imagine how long the list would be if we took every D+1 player who scored at a similar PPG clip over the last 10 years.

Nearly every top 10 pick who continues to play junior hockey against kids ramps hype during that season. Going to the NCAA, SHL, AHL all the way up to the NHL is when you start to actually find out what kind of player you have.

Lets wait until that happens before putting unfair expectations on Cozens relative to a junior hockey season.

Three things

1) You’re a Red Wings fan who isn’t a fan of Cozens. I’ve read some of your posts. You’ve declared he’ll never play center in the NHL and isn’t near the level of the players drafted around him. You're hardly coming here for a discussion.

2) You clearly didn’t understand that he was using NHLe to make the comparisons not points in the WHL. It also wasn’t just about his D+1 season but his progression over a couple years. NHLe isn’t perfect but it is a good tool to compare prospects in different leagues. You’ve mentioned other leagues its applied to (all but the NHL) so I’m guessing you don’t understand what NHLe is either. It matters when talking about someone using it to compare prospects and their respective growth.

D+1 NHLe for the Sabres top 10 picks the last several years.

Reinhart (#2) ——> 34
Nylander (#8) —-> 17
Mittelstadt (#8)—> 24
Cozens (#7) ———> 41


Quite clearly they didn’t all do as well as Cozens did in his D+1 season.

3) All that tweet says is Cozens is in good company with his development/growth to this point and that we MAY have struck gold. Obviously that means we have to wait and see what happens when he gets to the NHL. It guarantees nothing.

You’re so hell bent to go after anything viewed as positive about Cozens. That you jumped into our forum to mock something you clearly didn’t bother to understand properly.

 

[jc17]

I too want to set expectations properly for Cozens. I will say his spot on the team he'd potentially fill vs. what Mittelstadt had to do will be significantly in Cozens' favor (start at wing, plus competent veterans to play with).

That said, I still have questions about Cozens that only NHL time will answer (his ability to move the puck, think, and stickhandle at high speeds).

Yeah that was the concern at the draft and watching the wjc I don't think all of those were overcome the past season. He had a good tournament in terms of production but I thought he looked a little out of control at times and lost possession more than you'd want. But it's a difficult tournament and I didn't see him at all in the whl. Just a little suprised by how high some of the national media is on him.

 

[sabremike]

Yeah that was the concern at the draft and watching the wjc I don't think all of those were overcome the past season. He had a good tournament in terms of production but I thought he looked a little out of control at times and lost possession more than you'd want. But it's a difficult tournament and I didn't see him at all in the whl. Just a little suprised by how high some of the national media is on him.

Thought Casey would've taught everyone a lesson about putting a ton of stock in a single WJC tournament, but alas...

 

[haulinbass]

Three things

1) You’re a Red Wings fan who isn’t a fan of Cozens. I’ve read some of your posts. You’ve declared he’ll never play center in the NHL and isn’t near the level of the players drafted around him. You're hardly coming here for a discussion.

2) You clearly didn’t understand that he was using NHLe to make the comparisons not points in the WHL. It also wasn’t just about his D+1 season but his progression over a couple years. NHLe isn’t perfect but it is a good tool to compare prospects in different leagues. You’ve mentioned other leagues its applied to (all but the NHL) so I’m guessing you don’t understand what NHLe is either. It matters when talking about someone using it to compare prospects and their respective growth.

D+1 NHLe for the Sabres top 10 picks the last several years.

Reinhart (#2) ——> 34
Nylander (#8) —-> 17
Mittelstadt (#8)—> 24
Cozens (#7) ———> 41


Quite clearly they didn’t all do as well as Cozens did in his D+1 season.

3) All that tweet says is Cozens is in good company with his development/growth to this point and that we MAY have struck gold. Obviously that means we have to wait and see what happens when he gets to the NHL. It guarantees nothing.

You’re so hell bent to go after anything viewed as positive about Cozens. That you jumped into our forum to mock something you clearly didn’t bother to understand properly.

I'm a hockey fan. My favorite teams right now are 1. Colorado 2. Winnipeg 3. Buffalo

With that said, maybe you should take your own advice and make sure you have all the information necessary before concluding opinions.

Two. I give zero crap anything about this system. It isn't a standard and will never be a standard to judge players seasons/progression. So my statements and opinions still hold fair in that he didn't post any type of spectacular season. I still also reserve the right to laugh at his tweet, because even with your breakthrough education you pushed on me, it is comical.

Not sure why you think I have an agenda against Cozens success in Buffalo simply because I predicted specific other players would indeed end up going ahead of him, that he won't play center in the NHL and that there are many concerns regarding him being an impact player in this league. Not a fan that Buffalo selected him, but now that they have, I hope he becomes a very effective winger that can capitalize from a great center like Eichel putting him in good situations. After all, an effective complimentary winger is what I have him pegged at.

I also haven't posted a single thing regarding Cozens in like over a year? Where does this hell bent claim come from? Sure seems to be that I don't really care that much outside of pre-draft and arguing the draft rankings.

Next time I post, I'll be sure to ask you for permission on exactly what I am aloud to discuss and what views I am able to express.

Thanks

 

[UnleashRasmus]

I'm a hockey fan. My favorite teams right now are 1. Colorado 2. Winnipeg 3. Buffalo

With that said, maybe you should take your own advice and make sure you have all the information necessary before concluding opinions.

Two. I give zero crap anything about this system. It isn't a standard and will never be a standard to judge players seasons/progression. So my statements and opinions still hold fair in that he didn't post any type of spectacular season. I still also reserve the right to laugh at his tweet, because even with your breakthrough education you pushed on me, it is comical.

Not sure why you think I have an agenda against Cozens success in Buffalo simply because I predicted specific other players would indeed end up going ahead of him, that he won't play center in the NHL and that there are many concerns regarding him being an impact player in this league. Not a fan that Buffalo selected him, but now that they have, I hope he becomes a very effective winger that can capitalize from a great center like Eichel putting him in good situations. After all, an effective complimentary winger is what I have him pegged at.

Next time I post, I'll be sure to ask you for permission on exactly what I am aloud to discuss and what views I am able to express.

Thanks

I watched him a bit in Junior last year, and yes there are still things he needs to work on, but he's definitely rounding out his game nicely. He can be a fine third line center with second line center impact.

 

[joshjull]

I'm a hockey fan. My favorite teams right now are 1. Colorado 2. Winnipeg 3. Buffalo

With that said, maybe you should take your own advice and make sure you have all the information necessary before concluding opinions.

Two. I give zero crap anything about this system. It isn't a standard and will never be a standard to judge players seasons/progression. So my statements and opinions still hold fair in that he didn't post any type of spectacular season. I still also reserve the right to laugh at his tweet, because even with your breakthrough education you pushed on me, it is comical.

Not sure why you think I have an agenda against Cozens success in Buffalo simply because I predicted specific other players would indeed end up going ahead of him, that he won't play center in the NHL and that there are many concerns regarding him being an impact player in this league. Not a fan that Buffalo selected him, but now that they have, I hope he becomes a very effective winger that can capitalize from a great center like Eichel putting him in good situations. After all, an effective complimentary winger is what I have him pegged at.

I also haven't posted a single thing regarding Cozens in like over a year? Where does this hell bent claim come from? Sure seems to be that I don't really care that much outside of pre-draft and arguing the draft rankings.

Next time I post, I'll be sure to ask you for permission on exactly what I am aloud to discuss and what views I am able to express.

Thanks

You couldn’t be more wrong with the bolded. NHLe is a standard used to help in the evaluation of prospects. One of the biggest developers/writers on the subject, Rob Vollman, was hired by the LA Kings. Teams around the league have hired similar folks. I’d be very surprised if most teams didn’t use it by now as part of their prospect evaluation.

The only thing NHLe can attempt to predict Is a players first year in the NHL.** Thats it. It can’t predict a players career. Its not designed to do that. If you understood that you would realize the guy whose tweets I posted is not using NHLe to predict Cozens will be Point or Tanguay. He’s saying he’s had numbers similar to a bunch of good players and those are two examples. The only thing close to a “prediction” is saying the Sabres MAY have struck gold. Which doesn’t really say much other than he might be good.

The most you can get out of Cozens NHLe of 41 is that he’s probably ready for the NHL. Thats all I got out of it. I’ll wait to see what he does in the NHL before thinking about what he may become.

I’m going to guess you saw Cozens and Point being compared. Then assumed it meant that guy was arguing Cozens would develop into Point. So you start off with the big laugh emojis to show how crazy that idea was. NHLe can’t predict something like that.


** NHLe is basically a formula for translating a players production in whatever league he is in into its NHL equivalent (hence the NHLe). Each league has its own value.

Here is an example from a few years ago of the translation factor each league carries. Its from Rob Vollman’s Hockey abstract before he worked for the Kings.

 

[LongWayDown37]

I'm a hockey fan. My favorite teams right now are 1. Colorado 2. Winnipeg 3. Buffalo

With that said, maybe you should take your own advice and make sure you have all the information necessary before concluding opinions.

Two. I give zero crap anything about this system. It isn't a standard and will never be a standard to judge players seasons/progression. So my statements and opinions still hold fair in that he didn't post any type of spectacular season. I still also reserve the right to laugh at his tweet, because even with your breakthrough education you pushed on me, it is comical.

Not sure why you think I have an agenda against Cozens success in Buffalo simply because I predicted specific other players would indeed end up going ahead of him, that he won't play center in the NHL and that there are many concerns regarding him being an impact player in this league. Not a fan that Buffalo selected him, but now that they have, I hope he becomes a very effective winger that can capitalize from a great center like Eichel putting him in good situations. After all, an effective complimentary winger is what I have him pegged at.

I also haven't posted a single thing regarding Cozens in like over a year? Where does this hell bent claim come from? Sure seems to be that I don't really care that much outside of pre-draft and arguing the draft rankings.

Next time I post, I'll be sure to ask you for permission on exactly what I am aloud to discuss and what views I am able to express.

Thanks

Try to take yourself a little less seriously on an internet message board.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm a hockey fan. My favorite teams right now are 1. Colorado 2. Winnipeg 3. Buffalo

With that said, maybe you should take your own advice and make sure you have all the information necessary before concluding opinions.

Two. I give zero crap anything about this system. It isn't a standard and will never be a standard to judge players seasons/progression. So my statements and opinions still hold fair in that he didn't post any type of spectacular season. I still also reserve the right to laugh at his tweet, because even with your breakthrough education you pushed on me, it is comical.

Not sure why you think I have an agenda against Cozens success in Buffalo simply because I predicted specific other players would indeed end up going ahead of him, that he won't play center in the NHL and that there are many concerns regarding him being an impact player in this league. Not a fan that Buffalo selected him, but now that they have, I hope he becomes a very effective winger that can capitalize from a great center like Eichel putting him in good situations. After all, an effective complimentary winger is what I have him pegged at.

I also haven't posted a single thing regarding Cozens in like over a year? Where does this hell bent claim come from? Sure seems to be that I don't really care that much outside of pre-draft and arguing the draft rankings.

Next time I post, I'll be sure to ask you for permission on exactly what I am aloud to discuss and what views I am able to express.

Thanks

ummm why is a troll posting in the Sabres forum? The amount of dumb in these posts is tough to read.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You couldn’t be more wrong with the bolded. NHLe is a standard used to help in the evaluation of prospects. One of the biggest developers/writers on the subject, Rob Vollman, was hired by the LA Kings. Teams around the league have hired similar folks. I’d be very surprised if most teams didn’t use it by now as part of their prospect evaluation.

The only thing NHLe can attempt to predict Is a players first year in the NHL.** Thats it. It can’t predict a players career. Its not designed to do that. If you understood that you would realize the guy whose tweets I posted is not using NHLe to predict Cozens will be Point or Tanguay. He’s saying he’s had numbers similar to a bunch of good players and those are two examples. The only thing close to a “prediction” is saying the Sabres MAY have struck gold. Which doesn’t really say much other than he might be good.

The most you can get out of Cozens NHLe of 41 is that he’s probably ready for the NHL. Thats all I got out of it. I’ll will wait to see what he does in the NHL before thinking about what he may become.

I’m going to guess you saw Cozens and Point being compared. Then assumed it meant that guy was arguing Cozens would develop into Point. So you start off with the big laugh emojis to show how crazy that idea was. NHLe can’t predict something like that.


** NHLe t is basically a formula for translating a players production in whatever league he is in into its NHL equivalent (hence the NHLe). Each league has its own value.

Here is an example from a few years ago of the translation factor each league carries. Its from Rob Vollman’s Hockey abstract before he worked for the Kings.

You have given this guy two more thoughtful posts than he deserves lol

him derping “I dunno why you don’t think I’m rooting for him??? I totally hope he develops into a complementary player who can learn to play hockey enough to get carried by someone like eichel” is too much for me to take seriously

 

[jfb392]

Why Byram and Cozens will be key in Canada's quest for another Gold - Sportsnet.ca

Cozens talk starts at 1:05. Sam Cosentino says that he has visibly filled out since the last time he saw him and took advantage of the time off to train.
He also says that he spent some time in the Yukon, before moving to Kelowna and then London to keep skating after the ice has been removed in Whitehorse, and specifically mentioned he spent a lot of time with Bo Horvat.

 

[Fezzy126]

Cozens is gonna fit right in here

 

[Fezzy126]

Cozens is gonna fit right in here

For the record I was being sarcastic, not readin anything into this... Here was the follow up tweet, which was a good response of leadership from the kids