Prospect Info: Dylan Cozens, C/RW, 2019 7th overall, Lethbridge (WHL) --- Signed to ELC

[Chainshot]

Playing another year of junior has never ruined a kid’s career. Let him play in Lethbridge and go for a 2nd WJC gold. He should be a stud for that team.

The old “play him on the wing on the 3rd line” routine as a teenager doesn’t do the player any good.

Grigorenko, Girgensons, Nylander, Thompson, Mitts. The list of young promising forwards who have had their development path mismanaged by this team needs to end at 5.

With the Sabres development history, I'm leaning toward the "unless he blows our socks off in camp" to having him go back for one more season in the dub. And yes, it should be evaluated on a case by case basis, but this team, regardless of front office and coaching staff, seems to have the ability to turn chicken salad into chicken shit over and over again. Don't turn this kid into Benoit Pouliot.

 

[Kyndig]

think your math is a bit off. They'd be 21 if they played their full junior then a year in the AHL

The Olofsson comment was hyperbole but I swear that's how some people think.

 

[dortt]

The Olofsson comment was hyperbole but I swear that's how some people think.

Olofsson staying down as long as he did was beyond dumb. Same with Pilut. Those players have been playing against men for years and in Pilut's case dominating

 

[OkimLom]

Olofsson staying down as long as he did was beyond dumb. Same with Pilut. Those players have been playing against men for years and in Pilut's case dominating

Olofsson staying down last year (except for the handful of games) was NOT a dumb move. Whether it was the RIGHT move, that is up for debate I think some can make an argument it was the right move. IMO, I'm fine with VO being kept with Taylor as long as possible and not kept with Housley. It took VO a little more than a month THIS season to look competent at 5 on 5. And this is with the team's best player carrying the play. I doubt VO looks anywhere close to what he looked like before he went down if he's tasked with playing on a lower line since the beginning of the season.

Same thing with Pilut, it wasn't a dumb move, it might not have been the RIGHT move. There's a major difference.

 

[jBuds]

Please send him back to the WHL next season. I can't take another year of Botterill's fake patience.

Unless Botts miraculously discovers how to properly construct a roster, I hope to god Cozens isn't rushed to the NHL. There's no reason for a 19 year old to be in the NHL unless he's an elite/superstar talent.

Yessssss

 

[dortt]

Olofsson staying down last year (except for the handful of games) was NOT a dumb move. Whether it was the RIGHT move, that is up for debate I think some can make an argument it was the right move. IMO, I'm fine with VO being kept with Taylor as long as possible and not kept with Housley. It took VO a little more than a month THIS season to look competent at 5 on 5. And this is with the team's best player carrying the play. I doubt VO looks anywhere close to what he looked like before he went down if he's tasked with playing on a lower line since the beginning of the season.

Same thing with Pilut, it wasn't a dumb move, it might not have been the RIGHT move. There's a major difference.

The reason the move was dumb was the UFA age being 27. Gives us so few years with the team.

If we had the old UFA age of 31, then we could afford to keep dominant players in the AHL. Now, we have to squeeze what we can out of them, before they hit UFA

 

[Jame]

The reason the move was dumb was the UFA age being 27. Gives us so few years with the team.

If we had the old UFA age of 31, then we could afford to keep dominant players in the AHL. Now, we have to squeeze what we can out of them, before they hit UFA

That should make up exactly zero % of the decision making process with prospect development.

 

[OkimLom]

The reason the move was dumb was the UFA age being 27. Gives us so few years with the team.

If we had the old UFA age of 31, then we could afford to keep dominant players in the AHL. Now, we have to squeeze what we can out of them, before they hit UFA

So no teams should ever draft or develop goalies? Or should they only be drafted if they are prodigies?

This is poor reasoning to consider the choice to send VO down to Rochester has being dumb.

 

[Zman5778]

The Sabres motto as it regards all of their prospects....but specifically their high-end prospects......should be this:

Primum non nocere. First, do no harm.

A prospect will very, very, very rarely be harmed by going back to juniors or the NCAA. Or even the AHL/foreign leagues in some/most instances.

But we as a fanbase should know better by now what rushing prospects do to them. Bustmuffin, Kassian (to an extent), Grigorenko, Girgensons, Reinhart (to an extent), Zadorov, Ristolainen (to an extent), Mittelstadt.

Let's not rush another promising talent.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

The Sabres motto as it regards all of their prospects....but specifically their high-end prospects......should be this:

Primum non nocere. First, do no harm.

A prospect will very, very, very rarely be harmed by going back to juniors or the NCAA. Or even the AHL/foreign leagues in some/most instances.

But we as a fanbase should know better by now what rushing prospects do to them. Bustmuffin, Kassian (to an extent), Grigorenko, Girgensons, Reinhart (to an extent), Zadorov, Ristolainen (to an extent), Mittelstadt.

Let's not rush another promising talent.

This is all nonsense. You can try them out for nine games and it does nothing. Guhle was damaged by three games in NHL or he's not good enough. Kassian was a dope head. Yeah, Casey should have been sent down earlier because he can't ply at NHL level right now. Was O'Reilly damaged at 18. No. Giving the player a short look is fine, but pull the plug when they can't cut it. Reinhart is just soft as butter.

 

[Zman5778]

This is all nonsense. You can try them out for nine games and it does nothing.

I said nothing about a 9 game tryout. I'm not opposed to those in the least. Give them a taste. But unless they are clearly, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt ready, send them back.

This organization doesn't get my benefit of the doubt in that regard.

 

[Correct]

This is all nonsense. You can try them out for nine games and it does nothing. Guhle was damaged by three games in NHL or he's not good enough. Kassian was a dope head. Yeah, Casey should have been sent down earlier because he can't ply at NHL level right now. Was O'Reilly damaged at 18. No. Giving the player a short look is fine, but pull the plug when they can't cut it. Reinhart is just soft as butter.

A bad 9 games at the NHL level could break a prospect's confidence. Every PERSON is different. Some can overcome, some can't. In theory, you want mentally tough players, but from my experience, most people don't handle adversity well at any age, much less late teens.

It's about finding each prospect's sweet spot. Not too soon, not too late. Botterill has no intuitive feel for that process whatsoever. One of the most out of touch GMs I've ever seen.

 

[Kyndig]

Lets review all these supposed players we've ruined by rushing them.

Girgensons: NHL regular on the 4th line. All effort but no brains, not something you can really teach.

Grigorenko: probably the most mishandled prospect we've had. Was a healthy scratch for months. There's one ruined player.

Zadorov: an NHL regular for the Avs, hes doing fine and has been in their lineup essentially ever since we traded him.

Armia: an NHL regular and played a whopping 1 game for the Sabres. Really slow to develop

Risto: is finally turning into a solid defenseman under a real coach. Being in the AHL might've been the better option given how devoid of talent this team was when he played.

Reinhart: has been solid top 6 player for years. 2nd overall draft pick that didn't play until his D+1 season. Normal.

Eichel: yeah enough said there.

Nylander: pretty much was in the AHL his entire time here.

Mitts: he was rushed given he was drafted out of HS but at the same time he looked ready. The big mistake was not sending him down to the AHL since he was eligible. Currently in the AHL where he belongs.

Dahlin: nothing to say there either another top talent like Eichel.

Cozens: already spent his draft year in the juniors.

Thompson: had already played half a season in the NHL before we even acquired him. Late 1st round pick and really should've been in the AHL. Was in the AHL until injuries happened.

2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders? Please they never even make our roster to begin with because of how bad we are at drafting and developing players, Asplund is pretty much the first player we've seen that looks like he could be a fringe NHLer at the very least and that was 4 years after he was drafted. Guhle looked good but then Housley can turn treasure into trash as he messed up Pilut too.

The theory that we ruin players by rushing them is a myth, unless you expect every 1st round pick to be a top 4 defenseman or top 6 forward..which just isn't reality.

 

[sabrebuild]

Actually that would be two extra years in juniors...which is very much a waste if hes not being challenged.

There is a very tiny percentage of guys who are not being challenged in junior vs overpowered in professional hockey.

If Cozens was absolutely dominating the dub, and was clearly one of the best players in the CHL, maybe you could make a case that a player might get underdeveloped the next year.

He is not having that type of season.

I think in the last 15 years or so, the only prospects we have had that you could make a case for that type of situation would be Jack going back to college, and arguably Zadorov.

Zadorov only because he was so physically gifted compared to his age group, not because he was too good at hockey.

I get not liking general rules. But generally, only a couple guys a draft class are ready and best served by being in the NHL before they turn 20.

 

[Dex]

I have not seen any of Cozens games, but statistically he seems to be doing pretty good. He finished last year scoring 0.5 goals per game, 1.24 points per game and 3.3 shots on goal per game. This year he's scoring 0.67 goals per game, 1.53 points per game and 4.9 shots on goal per game. Like I said, don't know anything more than that.

 

[OkimLom]

Lets review all these supposed players we've ruined by rushing them.

Girgensons: NHL regular on the 4th line. All effort but no brains, not something you can really teach.

Grigorenko: probably the most mishandled prospect we've had. Was a healthy scratch for months. There's one ruined player.

Zadorov: an NHL regular for the Avs, hes doing fine and has been in their lineup essentially ever since we traded him.

Armia: an NHL regular and played a whopping 1 game for the Sabres. Really slow to develop

Risto: is finally turning into a solid defenseman under a real coach. Being in the AHL might've been the better option given how devoid of talent this team was when he played.

Reinhart: has been solid top 6 player for years. 2nd overall draft pick that didn't play until his D+1 season. Normal.

Eichel: yeah enough said there.

Nylander: pretty much was in the AHL his entire time here.

Mitts: he was rushed given he was drafted out of HS but at the same time he looked ready. The big mistake was not sending him down to the AHL since he was eligible. Currently in the AHL where he belongs.

Dahlin: nothing to say there either another top talent like Eichel.

Cozens: already spent his draft year in the juniors.

Thompson: had already played half a season in the NHL before we even acquired him. Late 1st round pick and really should've been in the AHL. Was in the AHL until injuries happened.

2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders? Please they never even make our roster to begin with because of how bad we are at drafting and developing players, Asplund is pretty much the first player we've seen that looks like he could be a fringe NHLer at the very least and that was 4 years after he was drafted. Guhle looked good but then Housley can turn treasure into trash as he messed up Pilut too.

The theory that we ruin players by rushing them is a myth, unless you expect every 1st round pick to be a top 4 defenseman or top 6 forward..which just isn't reality.

You're looking at their "finished product" and then judging if we rushed them, by doing so, you are dismissing how a slower development path may have produced a better prospect. You should really be looking at what they were when we drafted and the choices we made with them and judged what players were rushed and which were not.

Girgensons: Played 2 years in the USHL. I believe the option for him was go to college (Vermont (correct me if im wrong)). The Guy needed development into playing a more pro-like game. He was sent to Rochester under Rolston where he played one year. Considering where Girgensons was with his "pro-game" experience, another year or two may have helped him develop into a better potential center as it would've helped him understand roles. Instead he was brought up the next year under Rolston (again) and then "National Team" coach, Nolan, who is poor in the x's and o's department, and was a coach that could get players to play but poor in teaching responsibility. Both coaches were horrible in development. From that season on he would not sniff the AHL.

Grigorenko: Everything you can do to make sure their development is rushed and screwed up, they did. Talented player, but needed to see his time in Juniors run out and then time in the AHL before he gets a sniff at the NHL level.

Zadorov: yo-yo'd his development. Couldn't make anything happen. I don't think we rushed his development that much if at all for the time we had him. His development consisted of the mental aspect of the game and rounding off the sharp edges. I think the instability of the decision making for him was what was more harmful to get the most out of his potential.

Armia: Not rushed, just didn't develop well. I can't say for sure WHAT they were doing down there was messing him up, but 4 years between men's league in Finland and the AHL, in terms of rushing a prospect, I don't think they did that.

Risto: One could say he probably could've been kept safe down in the AHL, where his workload would probably be increased correctly. I think the multiple years in mens leagues and one season of the AHL, we didn't really rush his development, but I do think we did harm in his development in giving him such a heavy workload so soon in his career at the NHL level.

Reinhart: After his 9 games, was sent down to Juniors to work on things. Then brought up for good. I would say he could've spent a 1/2 year in the AHL at least, but I think because of the structure of the team, it was okay for him to start in the NHL.

Eichel: Not rushed in the slightest.

Nylander: I'm of the belief he should've had one more year in Juniors. Outside of that, they didn't rush him into the NHL and kept him in the AHL outside a few select games to see his progress. Shocked to see Chicago not put him in their system.

Mitts: Was rushed way too soon. Horrible decision making in his development. If you are judging him on his WJC, he looks ready to be sent to the AHL. If you are judging him on the longer and bigger picture of his game in college, he should've been kept in college. He had a ways to go, not only strength-wise, but learning systems, and responsibilities of centers in all 3 zones.

Dahlin: I have liked his development timeline and path so far. He has been developed the best out of all our players. full marks to the coaching staff and Botterill (if he has say) for that decision.

Cozens: was the right decision to send him down. Though I'm not sure ANYBODY has laid down the claim that he was rushed at ANY point.

Thompson: I'm not a fan of his development path so far in his career. I don't think we've done any irreversible damage to his development. Unfortunately hes been injured to see where he's at to really judge.

 

[Matt Ress]

Cozens will be given every opportunity to succeed at the NHL level next year. I think he'll stick.

 

[old kummelweck]

Cozens will be given every opportunity to succeed at the NHL level next year. I think he'll stick.

See, I think it all depends on his man body. His game is along the boards and in the high-danger areas. Battling through NHL forecheck, dzone coverage, and big bodies is a physical maturity thing more than a hockey talent thing. He looks very lanky and lean at the moment.

 

[mechaworm]

See, I think it all depends on his man body. His game is along the boards and in the high-danger areas. Battling through NHL forecheck, dzone coverage, and big bodies is a physical maturity thing more than a hockey talent thing. He looks very lanky and lean at the moment.

You might be right. Then again, Sam Reinhart makes a good living in front of the net, and he pushes around nobody.

 

[sabremike]

A bad 9 games at the NHL level could break a prospect's confidence. Every PERSON is different. Some can overcome, some can't. In theory, you want mentally tough players, but from my experience, most people don't handle adversity well at any age, much less late teens.

It's about finding each prospect's sweet spot. Not too soon, not too late. Botterill has no intuitive feel for that process whatsoever. One of the most out of touch GMs I've ever seen.

A few years back there was a player who had the worst 9 game try out I think I have ever seen. The "highlight" was him getting a penalty and when coming out of the box played the puck while still in it, drawing another penalty. He looked so bad that lots of that team's fans were advocating trading him in a package for Matt Duchenne. Good thing their GM didn't do that because you know who that kid was?

Mat Barzal.

 

[Chainshot]

Again, we'll have to see how he performs once he is in camp. He'll have Lethbridge's playoff run that I personally hope is long and fruitful and then they will have to assess where to put him if Buffalo and/or Rochester are still playing. As for next year, he's a dedicated guy. He's coming off a hand injury that usually takes months to fully recover from and he's tearing it up in the 'dub. Honestly, I'm impressed in viewings at the U20's and the snippets of in-season game action I've seen of him this year.

It'll be an interesting decision, to be sure. And one I'm sure that will be polarizing.

 

[Matt Ress]

See, I think it all depends on his man body. His game is along the boards and in the high-danger areas. Battling through NHL forecheck, dzone coverage, and big bodies is a physical maturity thing more than a hockey talent thing. He looks very lanky and lean at the moment.

They'll want him to put some muscle on, no doubt. But once the season gets rolling, he'll play the whole year up. It's just what happens when guys are too good for the C and not eligible for the the A. Especially higher picks. We could know it's right, right away but we won't know it's wrong until the end of next year.

 

[sabrebuild]

Again, we'll have to see how he performs once he is in camp. He'll have Lethbridge's playoff run that I personally hope is long and fruitful and then they will have to assess where to put him if Buffalo and/or Rochester are still playing. As for next year, he's a dedicated guy. He's coming off a hand injury that usually takes months to fully recover from and he's tearing it up in the 'dub. Honestly, I'm impressed in viewings at the U20's and the snippets of in-season game action I've seen of him this year.

It'll be an interesting decision, to be sure. And one I'm sure that will be polarizing.

If Botts can bring in a couple competent forwards, and Cozens looks the part, they should have plenty of spots to ease him into the lineup.

Like you said, coming off the injury he hasn't seemed to miss a step and should only get better.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

In Todays day and age top 7/10 picks are usually in the NHL by D+2 seasons. Because high end talent on ELCs are needed to supplement top heavy teams.

From the 2014 draft 8 out of the top 10 played more then their 9 game try outs by D+2. The two that didn't are Dal Colle (bust) and Fleury (slow cooked but looks to be a disappointment from when he was drafted.

From the 2015 draft 9 out of the top 10 were regulars by 16-17 aside from Strome and he was slow cooked and being ruined before his career was saved by Chicago.

2016 saw 8 out of the 10 be regulars by 17-18 besides Juolevi (slow cooked and looks to be underwhelming) and of course Our Nylander who while thrust into the AHL instead of another year in the O was technically slow cooked and is a massive disappointment.

#7 overall picks are considered elite prospects the next 2 years after their draft day..If they are still not in the NHL and aren't overseas developing then those prospects are usually downgraded and not tagged as an elite prospect. Cozens is doing fine this year. His PPG in the dub is higher in his D+1 then Sams was. And Cozens is a better skater, bigger, stronger. No reason why he can't be given the 9 game look in 20-21. If he is not in over his head and can handle 13 minutes a night then you keep him up. Play him at wing if need be to acclimate him to the NHL game, but we don't and shouldn't have to wait until D+3 before he is helping this team. He isn't a late 1st round pick. He was a top 7 pick and those are usually playing as full time NHLers by D+2 about 75% of the time using the last few years as metrics.

If he plays as the 3C in 20-21 then he has the inside track to take over the 2C spot when MarJos deal expires. Just because double chin Mittelstadt was a massive disappointment doesn't mean Cozens will be too. Cozens has the build to handle pro hockey at 19/20. Casey doesn't/didn't.

 

[KiwiGriff]

Debating whether a prospect should be in the NHL, AHL or wherever should be based on that player. Long gone are the days of “just treat everyone the same”. The question should not even be around the skills of that player. Leading and coaching anyone, hockey or otherwise is heavily influenced by knowing the person. What actions make them improve? What things make then switch off and stop listening? This can come down to trivial things like the choice of words you use when talking to someone. Good coaches know their players. Someone who doesn’t have the skill might need to be thrown in the deep end. The paddling pool never pushes them. Others who look dominant in the AHL need careful treatment to keep confidence high in the NHL.

We can guess at what the best decisions for each player is but we don’t know them as people. Housley sure as hell didn’t either. You get an AHL and NHL coach who can both do that ... it’s gold.