Rumor: Ducks trying to unload a contract in order to re-sign Rakell/Lindholm

[Heraldic]

It really isn't like that at all, and you won't find many Anaheim fans calling Manson a solid first pairing guy.

Exactly.

Stoner has only been in Anaheim for two seasons. Who do you think he played with before he came here? It wasn't Vatanen. Furthermore, he's had ice time in Anaheim that didn't include Vatanen. He's been fine. Stoner is a solid player with, or without Vatanen. That doesn't mean he's worth what he is getting paid, but you're suggesting he's a product of Vatanen.

It doesn't really matter with who he played several years ago. It's about what he is right now.

When Stoner played with Vatanen they were actually winning matchups. Without Vatanen Stoner gets clearly beaten mach-ups wise. Without Vatanen he's having a really clear negative impact on your team. I really don't see getting beaten up that badly in a sheltered role "being fine".

You're comparing a 24 year old, still developing defenseman with a 30+ year old, with a number of established years in the NHL before he even came to Anaheim.

I'm not comparing them. But I'm illustrating the similarities in the situations they were last season (Stoner and Manson). Meaning having clearly better partner with them.

 

[Heraldic]

Your claim isn't based on anything tangible. It's based on a negative, and relies on everyone dismissing what this player did up until last season.

I'm actually basing my claims on something... Can you say the same?

 

[Exit Dose]

I'm actually basing my claims on something...

Citation needed.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

And still you saw Bieksa getting as much ice time as he did... Considering Despres was out majority of the season, there wasn't that much after Lindholm, Fowler and Vatanen. Manson is not a bad player by any means, but he would have gotten no business where he was if not because of Lindholm.

I may bee wrong but wernt you the guy that claimed manson carried lindholm defensively?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

You kind of glossed over the key point, which is that Montour isn't someone who would be added to sweeten a deal...

Facepalm yourself all you want. Maybe you're just not acknowledging that Stoner's two year cap hit is too problematic for most GMs, and that it narrows down the market to maybe 2-3 teams. Is Montour enough for those 2-3 teams to take on Stoner's contract? You can pretend you know that answer all you want. I won't.

 

[Sojourn]

Exactly.

I don't think that point is what you think it is.

It doesn't really matter with who he played several years ago. It's about what he is right now.

When Stoner played with Vatanen they were actually winning matchups. Without Vatanen Stoner gets clearly beaten mach-ups wise. Without Vatanen he's having a really clear negative impact on your team. I really don't see getting beaten up that badly in a sheltered role "being fine".

And how big is this sample size you're talking about? How much have you actually observed his play to come to this conclusion? It always baffles me how people can say a player loses a match up because of, what? Shot differential? Please.

You're reaching. You already admitted you don't follow Anaheim, but somehow you're coming to these conclusions? Give me a break, man.

I'm not comparing them. But I'm illustrating the similarities in the situations they were last season (Stoner and Manson). Meaning having clearly better partner with them.

The demands of the role are vastly different. So are the expectations. You used Manson as an example. That is a comparison. And a poor one. No one is saying Manson is a top pairing defenseman. I could understand the comparison if people were saying Stoner was a top 4 defenseman, but that isn't an argument being made. He's a solid 6/7 guy, albeit one who is overpaid. He's had a career proving he is exactly that, but you're taking this one last season and ignoring all else.

 

[HockeyShack]

How much in real dollars does Anaheim need to shed in any trade? Was thinking of deals that may work between Tampa and them. First deal would be based around Fowler and Garrison +, Anaheim saves 400k this year and 1.5mil next in real dollars while getting a replacement for the 2nd pair just not sure what the plus would be, for Tampa they save 600k in cap this year and next. Second deal would be Filppula for Stoner + Thompson, real dollars are almost identical this year Anaheim has an extra 1.75mil next year. This deal is more a way to make use of the nearly 5mil they're paying Stoner and Thompson, won't be paying Stoner to be in the A and Filppula is a huge upgrade on Thompson, for Tampa they get a depth forward to replace Filppula and save 1.75 on the cap next year and can hopefully rid Stoner then to free up more space.

Are you trying to help Anaheim at all?

They need 4mil of cap space I think right now.

 

[Sojourn]

Facepalm yourself all you want. Maybe you're just not acknowledging that Stoner's two year cap hit is too problematic for most GMs, and that it narrows down the market to maybe 2-3 teams. Is Montour enough for those 2-3 teams to take on Stoner's contract? You can pretend you know that answer all you want. I won't.

Since I addressed that in the rest of the post, the one that you cut, I think I've said all I need to say. If you can't be bothered to read my post as a whole, that's on you.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Since I addressed that in the rest of the post, the one that you cut, I think I've said all I need to say. If you can't be bothered to read my post as a whole, that's on you.

I read it, it wasn't worth re-posting. But go ahead and pretend your opinion is fact, over and over again.

 

[Emerald Duck]

Facepalm yourself all you want. Maybe you're just not acknowledging that Stoner's two year cap hit is too problematic for most GMs, and that it narrows down the market to maybe 2-3 teams. Is Montour enough for those 2-3 teams to take on Stoner's contract? You can pretend you know that answer all you want. I won't.

No way Montour is packaged to move Stoner. Teams are better off asking for our #1 pick (which we have only moved once) or asking the Ducks to retain $1M of salary than expecting someone like Theodore, Montour or even Larsson would be moved.

Just my opinion.

 

[Sojourn]

I read it, it wasn't worth re-posting. But go ahead and pretend your opinion is fact, over and over again.

It's common sense. It might be opinion, but it's backed with precedent, and you haven't refuted it with anything approaching logic. You're just dismissing it entirely, because, why? I won't pretend to know your motives.

 

[robbieboy3686]

BM will and most likely make RR and Lindholms contract middle-back loaded due to our cap this year, I don't know why this hasn't been mentioned( that I have seen) stoner being claimed might just be enough(if it happens of course)

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

No way Montour is packaged to move Stoner. Teams are better off asking for our #1 pick (which we have only moved once) or asking the Ducks to retain $1M of salary than expecting someone like Theodore, Montour or even Larsson would be moved.

Just my opinion.

And you're welcome to it. If only other posters could respond that way.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It's common sense. It might be opinion, but it's backed with precedent, and you haven't refuted it with anything approaching logic. You're just dismissing it entirely, because, why? I won't pretend to know your motives.

No I'm not dismissing your opinion one bit. In fact I probably lean toward your OPINION. I simply know the difference between opinion and fact. You seem intent on forcing your opinion on a lot of people around here, because why? I won't pretend to know your motives.

 

[Sojourn]

No I'm not dismissing your opinion one bit. In fact I probably lean toward your OPINION. I simply know the difference between opinion and fact. You seem intent on forcing your opinion on a lot of people around here, because why? I won't pretend to know your motives.

You should say opinion a few more times. Really get your point across. Whatever it is.

I backed up my opinion. I'm not forcing it on anyone. I even elaborated on why I felt my opinion was accurate, but, as I already pointed out, you ignored it. How am I supposed to prove a negative? There is zero evidence that Montour is even available, let alone actively being shopped in an attempt to move Stoner.

You aren't even trying to refute what I'm saying. You just keep trying to reinforce that it's an opinion. Yes, it is. An opinion backed by evidence. A lack of it, and past precedent. If you want to continue this discussion, why not offer up something substantial? Stop arguing just to be contrary. If I'm being overbearing, it's because of ridiculous responses like this. People throwing out completely unsubstantiated claims, and suddenly these claims need to be proven wrong? Give me a break. You can't expect me to provide evidence of something that hasn't happened.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

You should say opinion a few more times. Really get your point across. Whatever it is.

I backed up my opinion. I'm not forcing it on anyone. I even elaborated on why I felt my opinion was accurate, but, as I already pointed out, you ignored it. How am I supposed to prove a negative? There is zero evidence that Montour is even available, let alone actively being shopped in an attempt to move Stoner.

You aren't even trying to refute what I'm saying. You just keep trying to reinforce that it's an opinion. Yes, it is. An opinion backed by evidence. A lack of it, and past precedent. If you want to continue this discussion, why not offer up something substantial? Stop arguing just to be contrary.

Going back to what you started on me about...I said I wouldn't take a guess at what the sweeteners were to a Stoner trade. That was apparently such an unsatisfactory statement for you that you felt it necessary to start up an argument with me (after getting all riled up about another poster's guess, which he said was a guess).

So when I say that I won't guess about something, I don't have to provide evidence when I'm not taking a stand on the issue. The only evidence I need to provide in order to prove I'm not guessing...is to not guess.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

If I'm being overbearing, it's because of ridiculous responses like this. People throwing out completely unsubstantiated claims, and suddenly these claims need to be proven wrong? Give me a break. You can't expect me to provide evidence of something that hasn't happened.

Oh yes, you're being overbearing when you can't leave the other poster's opinion alone. I never said you need to prove anything either. I don't care, except for the fact that you can't leave me alone either over saying that I wouldn't take a guess at the sweetener to a Stoner deal.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Are you trying to help Anaheim at all?

They need 4mil of cap space I think right now.

They have over 8mil in capspace, don't think it's a capspace issue with them. They take on 600k in one deal and 150k in another not massive amounts. They also save real dollars in one deal which I believe is more important to them and in the other the get much better use out of their real dollars. Seems like nobody is willing to help them out right now, these deals help them at least slightly and they help Tampa too which is what you need to make a deal.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Ducks and sabers fans are always so loving in the offseason

 

[Sojourn]

Going back to what you started on me about...I said I wouldn't take a guess at what the sweeteners were to a Stoner trade. That was apparently such an unsatisfactory statement for you that you felt it necessary to start up an argument with me (after getting all riled up about another poster's guess, which he said was a guess).

So when I say that I won't guess about something, I don't have to provide evidence when I'm not taking a stand on the issue. The only evidence I need to provide in order to prove I'm not guessing...is to not guess.

It's interesting that you are laying the blame on me, for calling out someone for making **** up. You're the one who interjected yourself into that discussion. One you had no reason to be a part of, except as, apparently, a Devil's advocate. My initial response to you wasn't even remotely aggressive. I simply said it made no sense.

If you need a refresher in what actually happened, I responded to the initial post by saying it was unlikely that Montour was ever offered. And here we are. You trying to criticize me for having an opinion, and being unable to prove a negative. I have to say, I've had a lot of discussions on HFB. This might be the first where I'm being called out for having an opinion on something that never happened. Or, if you want to be pedantic, on something you can't prove ever happened.

And on that note, I think it's time to move on. If you're just going to regurgitate the same meal over and over again, you can't expect me to come back for more.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It's interesting that you are laying the blame on me, for calling out someone for making **** up. You're the one who interjected yourself into that discussion. One you had no reason to be a part of, except as, apparently, a Devil's advocate. My initial response to you wasn't even remotely aggressive. I simply said it made no sense.

If you need a refresher in what actually happened, I responded to the initial post by saying it was unlikely that Montour was ever offered. And here we are. You trying to criticize me for having an opinion, and being unable to prove a negative. I have to say, I've had a lot of discussions on HFB. This might be the first where I'm being called out for having an opinion on something that never happened. Or, if you want to be pedantic, on something you can't prove ever happened.

And on that note, I think it's time to move on. If you're just going to regurgitate the same meal over and over again, you can't expect me to come back for more.

Spin.

 

[Sojourn]

Spin.

Fact.

This isn't a political discussion.

 

[lindholmie]

Did i stumble into a Sabres thread? thats all i see ITT. Buncha sabres fans lmaoo they have this weird thing against the duck

 

[Duck Off]

Did i stumble into a Sabres thread? thats all i see ITT. Buncha sabres fans lmaoo they have this weird thing against the duck

As long as they stay here and away from our boards; I'm happy.

Not sure why several felt the need to come to our board and say things like "I'm sorry but you guys should expect an offer sheet from us." Been on this board for a while, but that's a new one for me.

 

[gilfaizon]

No way Montour is packaged to move Stoner. Teams are better off asking for our #1 pick (which we have only moved once) or asking the Ducks to retain $1M of salary than expecting someone like Theodore, Montour or even Larsson would be moved.

Just my opinion.

Not just your opinion. Anybody with a bit of knowledge about the team and their front office will agree. However, I doubt see any of the three OR the 1st round pick being moved.