Post-Game Talk: Ducks 4 - Jets 3 in OT

[Buffdog]

Well not to be a Donny downer but take away the hot start and they are 11-10-2
I am not sure about you but that concerns me or makes me believe they really are about a .500 team

Since we're cherry picking games to get rid of....

If you take away all their losses, they're undefeated

 

[Adam da bomb]

With nearly every NHL PP set up as a 1-3-1, it seems like the more successful units are the ones that offer some kind of wrinkle to the vanilla “two flanks, QB, bumper, netfront” look.

I almost see Ehlers as a bit of a “rover” on that unit. He’s primarily in the bumper spot, but he gets utilized just about everywhere, including netfront (see goal #1 vs Wild a few weeks ago). He skates it out to the point alongside Morrissey and all of a sudden the Jets are in more of a 2-3 spread. They also move him out of the bumper to give more of an umbrella look at 5v3.

Long winded way of saying I agree with you, Ehlers has been instrumental in our PP success this season.

He has been instrumental. Many players have been. He also hasn’t been responsible for zone entries.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Long winded way of saying I agree with you, Ehlers has been instrumental in our PP success this season.

Not long winded at all, well articulated. Great post!

 

[Jet]

I’m guessing you mean 1RD cause Josh is our 1LD

Yes absolutely

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Well not to be a Donny downer but take away the hot start and they are 11-10-2
I am not sure about you but that concerns me or makes me believe they really are about a .500 team

12-10-2*. We started 15-1-0 and are now 27-11-2.

The defending champs are 11-9-1 since they clobbered the Jets 5-0 in mid November. Are they a 0.500 team? Cherry picking like that you can make almost any team look mediocre or worse.

I had some concerns after we barely squeaked past the Sharks and got badly outplayed by the Ducks. Since then, it seems like their 5v5 play has gradually started to correct itself. Ehlers coming back is a huge part of that, IMO.

 

[Jet]

12-10-2*. We started 15-1-0 and are now 27-11-2.

The defending champs are 11-9-1 since they clobbered the Jets 5-0 in mid November. Are they a 0.500 team? Cherry picking like that you can make almost any team look mediocre or worse.

I had some concerns after we barely squeaked past the Sharks and got badly outplayed by the Ducks. Since then, it seems like their 5v5 play has gradually started to correct itself. Ehlers coming back is a huge part of that, IMO.

I anticipate we'll see the Jets play gravitate more towards the level of play in the first 20 games now that we are back home and have a few instances of extra days off.

 

[WolfHouse]

I mean, your opinion, insight, as to why he's the one who's driving the line, the engine, etc?

The stats that have been previously posted, is it from this year? The PP has had a facelift, more moving pieces, and because of this, more options have openend up as to who they can pass to.

That's not to say that Ehlers isn't adding to the movement, he does, he's certainly important to it, but I don't see how he's the one creating the most movement, rather, any more movement than say Morrissey or KFC. And he's not one of the players carrying the puck on zone entries (edit - saw that this was mentioned in the previous posts). Credit to Ehlers though, he's making the most of his opportunity.

Ive mentioned it before - his speed on entry pushes the D back whether he is carrying the puck or not - which he does a fair bit..

The main benefit is his willingness to move into the slot and the dual threat if hum swapping bumper duties with vilardi

Ehlers movement keeps both teams a little off balance so scheif never settles back into his perfect pass mode

 

[WolfHouse]

With nearly every NHL PP set up as a 1-3-1, it seems like the more successful units are the ones that offer some kind of wrinkle to the vanilla “two flanks, point, bumper, netfront” look.

I almost see Ehlers as a bit of a “rover” on that unit. He’s primarily in the bumper spot, but he gets utilized just about everywhere, including netfront (see goal #1 vs Wild a few weeks ago). He skates it out to the point alongside Morrissey and all of a sudden the Jets are in more of a 2-3 spread. They also move him out of the bumper to give more of an umbrella look at 5v3.

Long winded way of saying I agree with you, Ehlers has been instrumental in our PP success this season.

Rover is a better way of explaining it than splitting bumper with vilardi yes

 

[WolfHouse]

Not long winded at all, well articulated. Great post!

Look at us!!! Positive posts and actual discussion!!!

Wheres @Buffdog to ruin it all

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

I guess we can't win them all. But that game really sucked.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I hope we never have to see pp with any other configurations so being like oh yeah let’s see someone else snip on pp becomes silly.

It also has the feel of pick your favourite jet and say he is the most important part of pp vibes to it.

Without Villardi we have no net presence with soft hands.
No one can snipe like kc and stopping him is the focus of the pk.
Schief drives the pp by bringing it into other team’s end.
Morrissey is the best distributor and keeps teams honest by having the best point shot.

 

[Cotton Eye Joe]

Honest question, what is Miller doing better than Stan or Fleury? Bit picking a fight just genuinely want to know why you have that opinion.

For the record, I'm all for getting a 1LD to push Demelo down if the price or term is right.

I"d say its a toss up with Miller and Fleury. Stan and Ville a step behind.
I'd actually say Miller and Fleury are 7 D. We could use a top 4 D to play with JoMo and a bottom pairing guy with DeMelo.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I"d say its a toss up with Miller and Fleury. Stan and Ville a step behind.
I'd actually say Miller and Fleury are 7 D. We could use a top 4 D to play with JoMo and a bottom pairing guy with DeMelo.

Doesn’t answer what is Miller doing better? He is definitely faster. Doesn’t hit as hard not as good of offensive instincts, but a harder shot.

 

[Cotton Eye Joe]

Doesn’t answer what is Miller doing better? He is definitely faster. Doesn’t hit as hard not as good of offensive instincts, but a harder shot.

Exactly. It's a toss up with Miller and Fleury. Put either one on the final pairing. But they are both #7 D. Need a better D if we are serious.

I hope we never have to see pp with any other configurations so being like oh yeah let’s see someone else snip on pp becomes silly.

It also has the feel of pick your favourite jet and say he is the most important part of pp vibes to it.

Without Villardi we have no net presence with soft hands.
No one can snipe like kc and stopping him is the focus of the pk.
Schief drives the pp by bringing it into other team’s end.
Morrissey is the best distributor and keeps teams honest by having the best point shot.

??? Makes some sense.
Far better to have 2 units ready to go on the PP.
And, be assured that other teams are copying our first unit and coming up with ways to stop them.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Exactly. It's a toss up with Miller and Fleury. Put either one on the final pairing. But they are both #7 D. Need a better D if we are serious.


??? Makes some sense.
Far better to have 2 units ready to go on the PP.
And, be assured that other teams are copying our first unit and coming up with ways to stop them.

When I say I hope we don’t have to see any other configuration I mean I hope guys stay healthy.

I was comparing miller to Stan. Miller is faster, less brain farts, but, less physical. Miller has a harder shot than Stan, but, I haven’t seen him make a great break out pass or have as good of offensive instincts. Stan has taken the puck down lower than blue line and created something.

Fleury vs Stan. Less physical takes less penalties, much faster, don’t think he has as good of offensive instincts.

 

[Buffdog]

I"d say its a toss up with Miller and Fleury. Stan and Ville a step behind.
I'd actually say Miller and Fleury are 7 D. We could use a top 4 D to play with JoMo and a bottom pairing guy with DeMelo.

Stan has played his way up to equal or more with Fleury for me. IMO he's actually looked better on the 2nd pairing with Pionk than he has on the 3rd

Makes you wonder if we should rethink who is dragging who down when he's paid with Heinola

 

[Adam da bomb]

Stan has played his way up to equal or more with Fleury for me. IMO he's actually looked better on the 2nd pairing with Pionk than he has on the 3rd

Makes you wonder if we should rethink who is dragging who down when he's paid with Heinola

Although, Stan has had good series before, I think we shouldn’t get over excited till he can keep it up for a longer period.

He’s got his strengths and definite weaknesses.

Berg is still the 2nd ld. Should just be happy to have depth.

 

[Whileee]

I have criticized Stanley plenty, but outside of some rust after coming back, he has played a very stable, puck moving game.

With the level of play of he and Heinola right now, I'm dressing Stanley if i want to win.

Heinola is doing pretty much nothing positive out there. Stanley is at least moving the puck well, generating some offense, and most of his mistakes are ones that practically every defenseman make. This isn't directed at you but some are working extremely hard to amplify everything negative he does and giving zero credit for the positives. I think he's actually playing better than Miller, and He's pretty close to Fleury, with the edge being skating.

I agree with you a lot, but not on this.

I agree that Heinola hasn't shown enough to be granted that 3rd pair role.

My point is that the Jets need a better D than Stanley in that role if they want to be a real contender, and I have tried to support my opinion with specific examples (like mistakes or penalties at key moments). Of course other D make mistakes too, but I don't really see the benefit with Stanley, especially in the playoffs when the pace increases substantially and fighting becomes even less relevant.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

I anticipate we'll see the Jets play gravitate more towards the level of play in the first 20 games now that we are back home and have a few instances of extra days off.

I like the positive take and hope it happens

12-10-2*. We started 15-1-0 and are now 27-11-2.

The defending champs are 11-9-1 since they clobbered the Jets 5-0 in mid November. Are they a 0.500 team? Cherry picking like that you can make almost any team look mediocre or worse.

I had some concerns after we barely squeaked past the Sharks and got badly outplayed by the Ducks. Since then, it seems like their 5v5 play has gradually started to correct itself. Ehlers coming back is a huge part of that, IMO.

I am not trying to make them look bad. I feel they are not as good as their record. I hope this home stand proves me wrong but two games vs the Ducks wherein they were suffocated by their forecheck has me wondering about this squad.

 

[voyageur]

I agree that Heinola hasn't shown enough to be granted that 3rd pair role.

My point is that the Jets need a better D than Stanley in that role if they want to be a real contender, and I have tried to support my opinion with specific examples (like mistakes or penalties at key moments). Of course other D make mistakes too, but I don't really see the benefit with Stanley, especially in the playoffs when the pace increases substantially and fighting becomes even less relevant.

This defense is so hard to predict. A few weeks ago De Melo's demise was being predicted, myself included. He's now +18 on the the year, which is trending towards last season's result. Pionk took a good drop in his stats going from Sammy to Fleury. Stan has maybe stabilized his game a little since jumping up into the top 4., which wasn't predicted here. Samberg hopefully elevates Pionk's game back to where it was at the start of the season. Miller is just quietly going about a very respectable season.

Healthy, maybe Stan can get some confidence from recent games. His ability to stop players in their tracks is an asset, as the games get greasier around the net. Fleury has some very respectable PK numbers, but so too does Josh Morrissey, so there's some options there. The penalties are certainly a concern, but some of that cycle movement in the offensive zone that Stan was a part of last night was a sign of a player who is fitting in to what is being coached.

It will be interesting to see how much draft capital Chevy invests in this run. I'd say a consistent PKing center behind Lowry, who can play top 6 might be his biggest priority.

Defense the depth chart doesn't look so bad

Morrissey-De Melo
Samberg-Pionk
Stanley-Miller
Fleury-Coghlan
Heinola-Salomonsson/Lundmark

It's not a good enough defense to beat Vegas, maybe not Colorado either. Can the Jets get out of the first round with that group? I think it's possible. Chemistry is something that is developed.
If Stanley was capable of that +6, 2 goal playoff that he had during the Covid season that would be a big relief for the organization.

There's a lot of question marks. Can the top line dominate in the playoffs? Is there anybody on the 2nd line who can score in the playoffs? Can Lowry stay healthy through the whole season, because the 3rd line success depends on his play? Can the 4th line contribute? Can the 4th line kill penalties? Can the Jets win games in the playoffs with their PP? Who can win key draws? Can either top 4 pairing handle playoff hockey? Can Helle turn regular season success into playoff success?

Stanley's just a piece of that big puzzle.

 

[Adam da bomb]

This defense is so hard to predict. A few weeks ago De Melo's demise was being predicted, myself included. He's now +18 on the the year, which is trending towards last season's result. Pionk took a good drop in his stats going from Sammy to Fleury. Stan has maybe stabilized his game a little since jumping up into the top 4., which wasn't predicted here. Samberg hopefully elevates Pionk's game back to where it was at the start of the season. Miller is just quietly going about a very respectable season.

Healthy, maybe Stan can get some confidence from recent games. His ability to stop players in their tracks is an asset, as the games get greasier around the net. Fleury has some very respectable PK numbers, but so too does Josh Morrissey, so there's some options there. The penalties are certainly a concern, but some of that cycle movement in the offensive zone that Stan was a part of last night was a sign of a player who is fitting in to what is being coached.

It will be interesting to see how much draft capital Chevy invests in this run. I'd say a consistent PKing center behind Lowry, who can play top 6 might be his biggest priority.

Defense the depth chart doesn't look so bad

Morrissey-De Melo
Samberg-Pionk
Stanley-Miller
Fleury-Coghlan
Heinola-Salomonsson/Lundmark

It's not a good enough defense to beat Vegas, maybe not Colorado either. Can the Jets get out of the first round with that group? I think it's possible. Chemistry is something that is developed.
If Stanley was capable of that +6, 2 goal playoff that he had during the Covid season that would be a big relief for the organization.

There's a lot of question marks. Can the top line dominate in the playoffs? Is there anybody on the 2nd line who can score in the playoffs? Can Lowry stay healthy through the whole season, because the 3rd line success depends on his play? Can the 4th line contribute? Can the 4th line kill penalties? Can the Jets win games in the playoffs with their PP? Who can win key draws? Can either top 4 pairing handle playoff hockey? Can Helle turn regular season success into playoff success?

Stanley's just a piece of that big puzzle.

People keep just going with the he’s there to fight, but, I think Stan has better offensive instincts than berg, fleury, miller, Demelo, and is our 3rd best d in that regard.

People want to point to he’ll be roasted by fast teams but he stood up just fine. Yeah they might beat him, but, he keeps it all in the outside.

 

[voyageur]

People keep just going with the he’s there to fight, but, I think Stan has better offensive instincts than berg, fleury, miller, Demelo, and is our 3rd best d in that regard.

People want to point to he’ll be roasted by fast teams but he stood up just fine. Yeah they might beat him, but, he keeps it all in the outside.

It would be nice if the offensive instincts turn into offense. I wouldn't say he is better than Melo, who is just a little more timely when he jumps in. And goes bar down. I'm so unsure of what we have. Good Stanley looks good, bad Stanley looks bad, sometimes downright awful. The last time the Jets won a playoff series, Stan was out there, playing the first two games on the road with little protection from being caught out there against the best player in the world. And his sidekick. The next two months of hockey are going to show what the weaknesses are. And hopefully strengths.

 

[Adam da bomb]

It would be nice if the offensive instincts turn into offense. I wouldn't say he is better than Melo, who is just a little more timely when he jumps in. And goes bar down. I'm so unsure of what we have. Good Stanley looks good, bad Stanley looks bad, sometimes downright awful. The last time the Jets won a playoff series, Stan was out there, playing the first two games on the road with little protection from being caught out there against the best player in the world. And his sidekick. The next two months of hockey are going to show what the weaknesses are. And hopefully strengths.

You are right when he is bad he is awful. Point is great we have fleury and Stan so hopefully one of them will be hot at right time.

Also anyone who is okay with Stan there is pressure to go to his defence when ppl limit him to big and a fighter.

Dont think replacing him is our biggest need. We have lots of holes. Our 7th d is less important than getting our 2nd and 4th line contributing in my opinion.

We also need a higher d to play with mo if that pushes everyone great.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

I like the positive take and hope it happens


I am not trying to make them look bad. I feel they are not as good as their record. I hope this home stand proves me wrong but two games vs the Ducks wherein they were suffocated by their forecheck has me wondering about this squad.

“You are what your record says you are” -Bill Parcells.

They’re obviously not going to sustain the 0.938 point percentage from the first 16 games. They’re likely a fair bit better than the just above 0.500 team we’ve seen in the last 24 games.

It’s all moot, speculative, and frankly useless talk until we hit the playoffs. And even the most pessimistic of posters here realize that it will take a historical and unprecedented collapse to miss the postseason with the points the Jets have banked to date.

 

[Howard Chuck]

The ratio of Stan haters on this thread is probably at its lowest this year. He made some nice plays out there. I imagine he had a decent expected goal rating with some of the offense he generated.

I think he's starting to separate himself from Heinola if he plays the way he has in the past couple of games.

As an admitted Heinola hopeful (who doesn’t hope for a diamond in the rough?), I wonder how Heinola would look after the same amount of games and the same D partners?

But I agree I’m not cringing when Stan is on the ice and he seems to have had a good run of games.

It would be best for our team if those two and Salmonson could make an impact.