Proposal: Duchene + Barrie for Monahan + Brodie
- Thread starter returnofthemack29
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a mangy Meowth
Ross Colton Fan
ManofSteel55
Registered User
Barrie is a good player, but by far the least valuable of the 4 in this deal I think. Calgary would probably (and should) want something else to even up the value.
SmellOfVictory
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- Jun 3, 2011
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That's basically how I feel. Duchene is a definite Monahan upgrade (albeit he's older so that's to be expected), and I think the D swap unbalances the deal. It's not the worst proposal I've ever seen, though; I'd just expect an addition from Colorado, or maybe something different (e.g. MacKinnon+Barrie for Monahan+Brodie would be better value since MacKinnon is signed longer and is younger).
That's all in a vacuum, though. If I was actually GM and got a call with this kind of offer for Brodie it'd be an automatic 'no' just because I like him that much.
So you feel like a Monahan-Brodie trade for Duchene and Barrie is lopsided in favor of the Avs, but MacKinnon and Barrie for the same package is fair?
I am sorry, but I think you have lost all sense of perspective.
East Coast Icestyle
Registered User
He didn't once mention lopsided.
Boils down to this
Brodie >> barrie
Duchene > Monahan (age brings it closer)
Mackinnon >> Monahan
Brodie >> barrie
One is more even than the other for sure
I live in Calgary and see a lot of Flames games in person. Brodie is pretty much my fav Flame but he is having a bad year. It could be coaching or it could be him not playing as much with Gio.
If it is the latter, than a fair question is - how much of his success is due to playing with a Norris caliber partner? If he is a guy who can anchor a first pairing, the Flames fans on this thread are in the right. If he is just a good 2nd pairing guy, then the Avs don't need to add to this OP's deal.
I think we will find out over the next 40 games what Brodie's true value is. I suspect he will turn things around and be the best player in the Op's trade idea.
If it is the latter, than a fair question is - how much of his success is due to playing with a Norris caliber partner? If he is a guy who can anchor a first pairing, the Flames fans on this thread are in the right. If he is just a good 2nd pairing guy, then the Avs don't need to add to this OP's deal.
I think we will find out over the next 40 games what Brodie's true value is. I suspect he will turn things around and be the best player in the Op's trade idea.
SmellOfVictory
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In which sense? Do you think Duchene is more valuable than MacKinnon is? Because I don't.
East Coast Icestyle
Registered User
Brodie is better than Gio. He proved that two seasons in a row while Gio was injured.
In my opinion he also makes Gio look like the Norris contender he was, it was pretty symbiotic.
Avs44
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- May 16, 2011
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Are you suggesting Duchene>MacKinnon in terms of value? Because that's how this reads...and if that's the case, he is not the one who has lost all sense of perspective.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
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Curious why you think that?
At Hamilton's age (two years younger) Barrie was coming off a season where he finished at a 49 point pace(82 games) and was almost 2 months into a season where he ended up scoring 53 points in 80 games. Hamilton is coming off a year of 43 points in 82 games and is on pace to post 36 points in the same amount 80 games. Hamilton also has far more NHL experience than Barrie did as his age.
At the same age Barrie was posting far more points and I don't know if there's any difference between them defensively. Stats show Barrie as the better defensive player. The eye test probably shows Hamilton.
You do realize that there is more to a player than stats right? The worst part of hockey nowadays is this infatuation with stats. What happened to actually watching a player play and forming a report that way. Sorry but Barrie isn't in Hamilton's league. We are probably seeing the best of Barrie right now, that's not the case with Hamilton. He has so much more upside to tap into.
It's fair to believe Hamilton has more value than Barrie. To say they're not in the same league is just wrong and ignorant.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
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There's nothing wrong with watching a player and forming a report that way which is how I base most of my opinions. Otherwise I wouldn't have said Hamilton looks better defensively with the eye test.
Actual production stats are very important though. You know goals and assists. Those things have been around for a while and Tyson Barrie does a far better job of that than Hamilton.
Saying Barrie isn't in Hamilton's league is laughable. Tyson Barrie is a better hockey player than Dougie Hamilton. Barrie of course is two years older and that could change which is why I asked the poster who suggested Hamilton had the higher ceiling why he felt that way. You on the other hand didn't answer that at all. You say he has "so much more upside to tap into" without explaining how or why that is.
He's 7 inches taller. Tall guys always need a few more years so I'm not worried about that. He's still gangly, awkward and makes mistakes at times but the flashes he's shown at times are an elite level of two way play.
Plus he wasted 1/3 of last year getting used to Calgary, I think he can improve on last years numbers. This year probably not with how our defense and PP has been a disaster but I think he'll crack 55 points within 3 years.
The potential ceiling he has is just too much to trade without a gross overpayment.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
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That's definitely fair. I agree that the beginning of last season isn't completely fair to Hamilton's stats. He had a rough adjustment (very similar to Tys Barrie right now with his new coach). But Dougie was absolutely lights out in the second half of last season.
Ya, he was the direct reason why our PP went from dead last, too I think we ended up at 16th by the end of the year.
This year our forwards can't gain entry to the zone and the coach has clearly told the defense not to do it so we're stuck in dead last again.
The fact he has 10 points is actually impressive considering Calgary's play and he just got put on the #1 PP
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
Getting off topic here but I think we've seen most of what Dougie Hamilton has to bring on the table already. He's a top prospect who's likely leveled off early but will have a solid defensive career. He's Joni Pitkanen. I'd personally have zero interest in him in any deal for our better players.
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
Calgareee
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Care to elaborate on why? Joni Pitkanen was destroyed by injuries so there's a distinct reason why he faltered. Dougie has had no serious injuries and was able to post good numbers last year despite a horrific start to the season. The same thing has happened this year with learning a new system, playing with a revolving door of partners and has just settled in with playing with Gio on the top pairing and he has looked really good there. Both defensively and in transition.
There is absolutely no reason that I can think of that points to this being the best Dougie will ever be.
East Coast Icestyle
Registered User
Besides, he's grown to be much more physical, he's getting a lot better defensively. Growth isn't just points which is what the argument that Barrie is close to Hamilton seems to be.
Avs fans have been *****ing and moaning about how horrible Barrie has been this season. Flames fans have been singing praises. I don't understand how they aren't far apart, just as much as I don't understand how are 23year oldncant grow.
Guess.Mack is what he is.
Doesn't need another leap. Already top 20-30 offensively.
Shore up some of his defensive lapse and gain some strength and you got yourself a stew brewing.
If he does take a leap he'll be pushing for top 15 defense in the league.
