Confirmed with Link: Dubas the new GM - TSN

[IBeL34f]

You think if the Leafs didn't have Dubas, Shanny and Babcock pitch to Tavares he'd still sign with the Leafs?

They've chosen to ignore that, while we do have an excellent core of young, potential superstars, it takes a skilled GM to keep those pieces together and to sustain success over an extended period of time while those pieces become more and more difficult to manage under the cap. Tavares himself had questions for Dubas during the interview process about their plans to keep the core together moving forward.

And we've seen many times how having skilled players in place is not enough to reach the ultimate goal - San Jose's core had over a decade together to make something happen, and never have; Washington took 14 years after drafting Ovi to make it work; Edmonton had 4 1st-overall picks on their roster at one time, including multiple Hart Trophy winners in Taylor Hall and Connor McDavid, and still haven't become the Dynasty everyone was predicting almost 10 years ago - You need a solid organizational structure in place, to go along with a lot of luck, in order to win the Cup, and it was Dubas, Shanahan and Babcock who were able to convince Tavares that they would be able to achieve that goal, despite not having won a single Playoff round yet.

 

[hotpaws]

You think if the Leafs didn't have Dubas, Shanny and Babcock pitch to Tavares he'd still sign with the Leafs?

none of Dubas/Shanny or Babs are players , he came here because he gets to play with our elite young core which gives him a shot at the cup and because the islanders are still crap , being a Toronto area kid helps as well as Toronto being an attractive market but the main reason by far he signed with us is because of the state the team is in

also , what is is it do you think they pitched to JT ? cause i can guarantee you it wasn't

"sign in Toronto and you have the privilege to have us as your Pres/GM/Coach"


we had the same guys plus others pitching to Stammer who's also a home town kid but the difference with that pitch was we were crap at that time and T-Bay was a potential contender

 

[Liminality]

none of Dubas/Shanny or Babs are players , he came here because he gets to play with our elite young core which gives him a shot at the cup and because the islanders are still crap , being a Toronto area kid helps as well as Toronto being an attractive market but the main reason by far he signed with us is because of the state the team is in

also , what is is it do you think they pitched to JT ? cause i can guarantee you it wasn't

"sign in Toronto and you have the privilege to have us as your Pres/GM/Coach"


we had the same guys plus others pitching to Stammer who's also a home town kid but the difference with that pitch was we were crap at that time and T-Bay was a potential contender

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't the reasons be all of the above? We have a great young core ,Babs is a good coach he's familiar with and broke down how he'd utilize Tavares and Dubas is a young up and coming GM.

Seems kind of silly to point to one thing and ignore everything else.

 

[saltming]

aww, don't be like that, Salt

i think (*even with this amazingly wonderful get) there's going to be a few hurdles that Dubas needs to cross. I will wholeheartedly admit, i am liking the first few months

I'm genuinely interested though. I'm not trying to rub salt Into it or things like that. But imo this move was so solid, especially the price tag that it should cause people to perhaps look deeper into what Dubas brings.
That said I fully believe that he will have missteps and booboo's along the path just like any GM but I recall cynick strongly believing that Dubas would not be able to accomplish anything and would only make the team worse.

 

[saltming]

none of Dubas/Shanny or Babs are players , he came here because he gets to play with our elite young core which gives him a shot at the cup and because the islanders are still crap , being a Toronto area kid helps as well as Toronto being an attractive market but the main reason by far he signed with us is because of the state the team is in

also , what is is it do you think they pitched to JT ? cause i can guarantee you it wasn't

"sign in Toronto and you have the privilege to have us as your Pres/GM/Coach"


we had the same guys plus others pitching to Stammer who's also a home town kid but the difference with that pitch was we were crap at that time and T-Bay was a potential contender

The main reason Tavares left long island is due to the unstable management there.

 

[hotpaws]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't the reasons be all of the above? We have a great young core ,Babs is a good coach he's familiar with and broke down how he'd utilize Tavares and Dubas is a young up and coming GM.

Seems kind of silly to point to one thing and ignore everything else.

i'm sure there's multiple reasons he came here but they're far from equal and i highly doubt he wouldn't have signed here if LL/Hunter were our Pres/GM instead of Shanny/Dubas

 

[Superstar]

i'm sure there's multiple reasons he came here but they're far from equal and i highly doubt he wouldn't have signed here if LL/Hunter were our Pres/GM instead of Shanny/Dubas

You should know it was Dubas who put together the plan and vision, coordinated the roles for Shanahan and Babcock to play in the pitch to Tavares that helped win him over...not Hunter or LL. Tavares being meticulous himself also was highly impressed by the Leafs' pitch that really got him thinking of the possibilities of playing for the Leafs. These are facts that cannot be denied; the other scenario of LL/Hunter being able to do the same is just pure fantasy with no legs to stand on.

Dubas studied how the NBA do their pitches to sign UFA's, consulted with Masai Ujiri and others...designed the presentation with what to emphasize during the meeting...this is new world thinking in the NHL UFA luring game that helped get it done. To try to discredit Dubas for his ingenuity, hard work and execution by saying LL/Hunter could have done the same is asinine.

 

[hotpaws]

You should know it was Dubas who put together the plan and vision, coordinated the roles for Shanahan and Babcock to play in the pitch to Tavares that helped win him over...not Hunter or LL. Tavares being meticulous himself also was highly impressed by the Leafs' pitch that really got him thinking of the possibilities of playing for the Leafs. These are facts that cannot be denied; the other scenario of LL/Hunter being able to do the same is just pure fantasy with no legs to stand on.

Dubas studied how the NBA do their pitches to sign UFA's, consulted with Masai Ujiri and others...designed the presentation with what to emphasize during the meeting...this is new world thinking in the NHL UFA luring game that helped get it done. To try to discredit Dubas for his ingenuity, hard work and execution by saying LL/Hunter could have done the same is asinine.

maybe you can tell me how those were the facts ? were you in the room ?

and how am i trying to discredit anybody when Tavares himself said he was impressed with all the pitches and the major reason he came here was because our elite young core led him to believe we'll be a contender for the life of his contract

but hey maybe your're right and he would have come here if we were crap with a crap prospect pool just because he wanted to have the privilege to play for Dubas as his GM because who your GM is much much much more important than what players you get to play with

 

[Superstar]

maybe you can tell me how those were the facts ? were you in the room ?

and how am i trying to discredit anybody when Tavares himself said he was impressed with all the pitches and the major reason he came here was because our elite young core led him to believe we'll be a contender for the life of his contract

but hey maybe your're right and he would have come here if we were crap with a crap prospect pool just because he wanted to have the privilege to play for Dubas as his GM because who your GM is much much much more important than what players you get to play with

No, I wasn't in the room, neither were you. But I've pretty much watched all the interviews and read all the written material about this entire process to not come out here and make baseless claims and hypothetical assumptions about how LL/Hunter could have achieved the exact same outcome in the pursuit of Tavares as Dubas had.

Sure he was impressed by all the pitches, but it was the Leafs' pitch that made the deepest impression, which kept him going back to the Leafs for more questions and dialogue, and eventually that helped cement his decision.

And I don't get why you try to keep coming back to it being one thing or another. He obviously would not sign with us if we were crap, but he probably would not sign with us if we failed to convince him that this is the best fit and opportunity for him to win because he has other options. In one of the interviews with a US media outlet, he mentioned Lou was tremendous in the private meetings he had with him (LL had a head start before all the presentations), laying out his plan and vision he had for the Isles going forward. He could have easily gone back to the Isles - because that was where his heart was - if Dubas, Shanahan and Babcock were unconvincing.

 

[Menzinger]

maybe you can tell me how those were the facts ? were you in the room ?

and how am i trying to discredit anybody when Tavares himself said he was impressed with all the pitches and the major reason he came here was because our elite young core led him to believe we'll be a contender for the life of his contract

but hey maybe your're right and he would have come here if we were crap with a crap prospect pool just because he wanted to have the privilege to play for Dubas as his GM because who your GM is much much much more important than what players you get to play with

Being impressed with all the pitches isn’t the same thing as saying he thought they were all equally the same.

And again, it’s not a zero sum game, different things played a role in the decision.

 

[hotpaws]

No, I wasn't in the room, neither were you. But I've pretty much watched all the interviews and read all the written material about this entire process to not come out here and make baseless claims and hypothetical assumptions about how LL/Hunter could have achieved the exact same outcome in the pursuit of Tavares as Dubas had.

Sure he was impressed by all the pitches, but it was the Leafs' pitch that made the deepest impression, which kept him going back to the Leafs for more questions and dialogue, and eventually that helped cement his decision.

And I don't get why you try to keep coming back to it being one thing or another. He obviously would not sign with us if we were crap, but he probably would not sign with us if we failed to convince him that this is the best fit and opportunity for him to win because he has other options. In one of the interviews with a US media outlet, he mentioned Lou was tremendous in the private meetings he had with him (LL had a head start before all the presentations), laying out his plan and vision he had for the Isles going forward. He could have easily gone back to the Isles - because that was where his heart was - if Dubas, Shanahan and Babcock were unconvincing.

do you actually believe the pitches involved anything major that JT's agency already didn't know about the team ? do you actually think JT went into this process without being briefed in depth by his reps on the strengths/weaknesses of the teams he decided to allow to pitch to him ? do you think he didn't know the different tax situations or potential marketing revenue he may have access too ?

the firm representing him are among the elite of the field and would have broken down everything and anything he may have wanted to know so what his decision in my opinion came down too with the first 2 having the greatest importance were

- winning
-length of each teams potential cup window
-city he wants to play for
-coach , but chances are he won't have the same one for the duration of his deal
-quality ownership/mgmt but that also can change in 7 years

and when JT who turns 28 in September and has never been on a high end team broke it down the Leafs had the most positives among the teams and that's why he signed here , sure we had good presentation and as he said he was impressed by all of them but the key for our team was we had the most to offer

also i believe there was nothing magical anybody could have said nor did he go into this like he was buying a car and could be completely swayed by a good sales pitch since i believe his decision to potentially go to a new team didn't just dawn on him recently and i also believe believe his reps were assembling info and relaying it too him over a long period of time

this was not an easy decision for him nor did he take it lightly considering it'll affect the entire prime of his career so he wanted to make sure he gave himself the best chance of winning over the course of his deal

and yea i believe coming home was a dream come true but only because it was also as i said previously the best fit for what he was looking for in a new team

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

none of Dubas/Shanny or Babs are players , he came here because he gets to play with our elite young core

Which we have because of the moves Shanahan and Dubas have made. Shanahan got the ground running on the Leafs rebuild. Had he not we likely would not have the Big Three, Babcock as our coach, or have gone from last in the NHL to back to back playoff seasons in the two subsequent years. If those three things aren't the case it's extremely doubtful Tavares comes here. Dubas has also been present throughout Shanahan's regime, and lest we forget he was the GM of the Calder Cup winning Marlies, which Tavares specifically mentioned in his presser when discussing the future prospects of this team.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I’ve liked his moves so far but I don’t think Dubas is why Tavares signed with us. I think blaming/ giving credit to a GM for a UFA deciding to sign is short sighted.

I think the upcoming Nylander contract and his first big trade will be his real tests.

 

[rumman]

Does any of the pro Hunter crowd still think this was such a mistake?

I have to say Dubas has done a stellar job so far.

 

[IBeL34f]

do you actually believe the pitches involved anything major that JT's agency already didn't know about the team ? do you actually think JT went into this process without being briefed in depth by his reps on the strengths/weaknesses of the teams he decided to allow to pitch to him ? do you think he didn't know the different tax situations or potential marketing revenue he may have access too ?

the firm representing him are among the elite of the field and would have broken down everything and anything he may have wanted to know so what his decision in my opinion came down too with the first 2 having the greatest importance were

- winning
-length of each teams potential cup window
-city he wants to play for
-coach , but chances are he won't have the same one for the duration of his deal
-quality ownership/mgmt but that also can change in 7 years

and when JT who turns 28 in September and has never been on a high end team broke it down the Leafs had the most positives among the teams and that's why he signed here , sure we had good presentation and as he said he was impressed by all of them but the key for our team was we had the most to offer

also i believe there was nothing magical anybody could have said nor did he go into this like he was buying a car and could be completely swayed by a good sales pitch since i believe his decision to potentially go to a new team didn't just dawn on him recently and i also believe believe his reps were assembling info and relaying it too him over a long period of time

this was not an easy decision for him nor did he take it lightly considering it'll affect the entire prime of his career so he wanted to make sure he gave himself the best chance of winning over the course of his deal

and yea i believe coming home was a dream come true but only because it was also as i said previously the best fit for what he was looking for in a new team

Great, we have a bunch of awesome, young players in place.

They've never yet won a Playoff round together, and lots of teams have had skilled young players and gone nowhere.

When John Tavares asks the Leafs GM how they intend to keep their core together moving forward, and how they intend to grow for the future, in order to take the next step in their development and go from pretender to contender, do you think Dubas provides him with the same answers, plans and strategies that Lou Lamoriello would have? Or Mark Hunter? Do you think these men all had the same vision for how they would continue building our team moving forward, and do you think Tavares would've responded the same way to each of them - by signing a contract for the next 7 years and putting his faith in the organization to take a bunch of 20-year-olds with potential and groom them into a successful, Championship team?

You don't think Tavares wants to know how each team is going to navigate the next expansion draft? Or how they're going to retain all of their young core players, when every single media outlet and know-it-all fan is telling us we can't do it?

I agree with you that, logically speaking, when considering all information available to us, that the Leafs were the best fit for Tavares, based on core ages, talent in place, all of that good stuff - But it still requires a talented GM to put all of that stuff together and turn it into real, tangible success, and you have to believe, after hearing about how Tavares handled this situation, that he would've reconsidered coming here if he didn't think we had the ability to translate our youth and potential into a Championship.

Dubas absolutely deserves some credit here, and to suggest that Tavares just saw a young core and said, "That's where I'm gonna go," is a little disingenuous - at least if you take into account everything that's been said since this process started.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I’ve liked his moves so far but I don’t think Dubas is why Tavares signed with us. I think blaming/ giving credit to a GM for a UFA deciding to sign is short sighted.

I think the upcoming Nylander contract and his first big trade will be his real tests.

not really. it think it has to be in part.
we've had some dumbo people give dumbo contracts here.

hell, we've seen some dumbo people give some dumbo contracts everywhere. (Helloooooo Chia).

He had to convince Tavares to come here, sell him on the team, and to take less.
that's a pass.

 

[ACC1224]

IMO, Tavares coming is more on Shanahan than Dubas.

 

[rojac]

I’ve liked his moves so far but I don’t think Dubas is why Tavares signed with us. I think blaming/ giving credit to a GM for a UFA deciding to sign is short sighted.

I think the upcoming Nylander contract and his first big trade will be his real tests.

When Nylander signs, here’s what will likely happen:

If it can be considered a good deal, the anti-Dubas crowd will probably say that Shanahan did the convincing while Pridham worked the numbers.

If it’s a bad deal, they’ll say Dubas is a doody head.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

When Nylander signs, here’s what will likely happen:

If it can be considered a good deal, the anti-Dubas crowd will probably say that Shanahan did the convincing while Pridham worked the numbers.

If it’s a bad deal, they’ll say Dubas is a doody head.

That would be silly, even if Pridham did all the work he's still part of Dubas's team. The good and bad decisions will ultimately fall to him.

I like the Dubas hiring but one thing I've noticed in the past is people have used him a bit like a mirror and given him credit for things they liked and absolved him for things they didn't like saying he was overruled. This shouldn't happen anymore, good or bad the blame falls to him.

As for the Tavares signing I think a lot of things had to fall into place to make it happen, I do think if Lou and Dubas swapped places he still would have signed with the Leafs however, I don't think Dubas being GM is what pushed him over the edge.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

IMO, Tavares coming is more on Shanahan than Dubas.

I think it's based on four things in order of importance.

1. The state of the Islanders.
2. The state of the Leafs.
3. Babcock
4. Shanahan/Dubas.

Tavares likely doesn't sign with us if the Islanders are a good team or if we're a bad one. The team Stamkos passed on I bet Tavares does as well.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think it's based on four things in order of importance.

1. The state of the Islanders.
2. The state of the Leafs.
3. Babcock
4. Shanahan/Dubas.

Tavares likely doesn't sign with us if the Islanders are a good team or if we're a bad one. The team Stamkos passed on I bet Tavares does as well.

I think it's like this:

1. The state of the Islanders.
2. The state of the Leafs.
3. This is his hometown

Basically we agree, the way I see it is that your points 3/4 are already covered in point 2. And hometown is huge!

 

[DarkKnight]

If you don't choose "all of the above" for reasons he came, it shows a pre determined bias. Tavares cited all of the above, I'll take that over narrow agendas

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

If you don't choose "all of the above" for reasons he came, it shows a pre determined bias. Tavares cited all of the above, I'll take that over narrow agendas

That's not how decisions work though. Certain reasons matter more than others in almost literally every decision. The Islanders being a bad team is what made all the others possible.

 

[DarkKnight]

That's not how decisions work though. Certain reasons matter more than others in almost literally every decision. The Islanders being a bad team is what made all the others possible.

I just liked your post, obviously I agree with your logic. My point is more the Babs haters who undercut his part in this, Tavares said he was "tremendous". Or the ones trying to make this all about Dubas. It was everything, and yes the Isles uncertainty was a huge part as well.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I just liked your post, obviously I agree with your logic. My point is more the Babs haters who undercut his part in this, Tavares said he was "tremendous". Or the ones trying to make this all about Dubas. It was everything, and yes the Isles uncertainty was a huge part as well.

Apologies, sometimes things get lost in translation when it's over a screen.