Dubas details his 'biggest mistake' as Leafs GM in new book

[rojac]

Yup. Thats what he did but he isnt admitting it and claiming this as just a "mistake" of a new GM. This mistake is common knowledge, not nuance.

Very common in the corporate world to have short sighted executives making selfish decisions.

He never said the Tavares signing was a mistake. The article outright says that Dubas has no regrets about signing Tavares. He'saying his mistake was not getting Nylander, Matthews, and Marner wrapped up as July 1 signings.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Agreed. People with hindsight say the Nylander contract wasn't overpaid - it was though. Comparables at the time signed either for way less, or for less AND longer.

In terms of his tenure overall... Think about his five best moves and his five worst moves, I struggle to come up with 5 really solid good moves, but can easily come up with 5+ bad ones.

Five Best Moves:
-Signing Brodie
-Signing Bunting for cheap
-1st + 2nd + Anderson for McCabe (50% retention) + Lafferty
-Schenn for a 3rd
-Dumping Zaitsev for one year or Ceci (cost Connor Brown)

Five Worst Moves (hard to come up with just 5, so take your pick):
-Kadri for Barrie + Kerfoot
-Marchment for Malgin (obsession with "skill" over size)
-1st + two 4ths for Foligno
-1st to move ONE year of Marleau (turned into Seth Jarvis, exactly the type of cheap ELC impact player we could have used)
-Big Four contracts (which are arguably four separate mistakes)
-Mrazek contract
-Protecting Holl over McCann in the expansion draft
-Letting Hyman walk when he wanted to stay
-Will stop here, but there are more (eg Murray, not firing Keefe, not shaking up the Core Four, etc)

Even some moves that are generally praised (eg acquiring Muzzin, acquiring Campbell, moving Zaitsev, etc), he gave up good value for, so I wouldn't say they were slam dunk good moves. Like Muzzin cost a 1st + Durzi (who has become a young top 4 RHD) + Grundstrom. Campbell cost Trevor Moore and a 3rd, and ultimately struggled for us when it counted and got us nowhere. Moving Zaitsev cost Connor Brown.

Good post. One of his underrated horrible moves was gifting Gerry Sparks a spot on the roster when McElhinney outplayed him in camp and was the best backup in the league the season prior. That move and his ensuing failures basically destroyed the goaltending position from that point forward. They had to overplay Andersen even more than they had before because he was the only playable goalie. The best he could do after that was bandaids in net.

Hutchinson, Kaskisuo, Campbell, Rittich, Hutchinson again, Mrazek, Kallgren, Murray.

 

[HofT]

He never said the Tavares signing was a mistake. The article outright says that Dubas has no regrets about signing Tavares. He'saying his mistake was not getting Nylander, Matthews, and Marner wrapped up as July 1 signings.

People so eagerly forget the cap was suppose to go up but covid happened. It was an unfortunate circumstance that no one could predict.

 

[KingJoffrey]

The biggest sin of Dubas was that he created that bs entitled culture of the room.

Lou is a dinosaur, but players and agents respect/fear him. Which is 100 times better than Dubas'ses aproach to entitle and cuddle players.

 

[Half Clapper]

Imagine having this clown as your president of hockey ops / GM. I feel sorry for Pens fans...

 

[nturn06]

People so eagerly forget the cap was suppose to go up but covid happened. It was an unfortunate circumstance that no one could predict.

Even if the cap went up, the Leafs would had been better not signing JT and spending the money somehwere else.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Even if the cap went up, the Leafs would had been better not signing JT and spending the money somehwere else.

Yeah, the unexpected nature of the cap not going up still doesn't justify signing someone to be the 2nd highest paid forward in hockey when they're not close to the 2nd best forward in hockey. It's a weird justification for why that contract isn't as bad as it seems.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Yeah, the unexpected nature of the cap not going up still doesn't justify signing someone to be the 2nd highest paid forward in hockey when they're not close to the 2nd best forward in hockey. It's a weird justification for why that contract isn't as bad as it seems.

Not only that, but as a manager, part of your job is managing risk.

ie. what if things don't go as forecast or to plan?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not only that, but as a manager, part of your job is managing risk.

ie. what if things don't go as forecast or to plan?

Apparently, the "hey, it's a free asset, so why not?" approach applies.

 

[HabbyGuy]

LEAFS NOTES: Kyle Dubas delves into his 'biggest mistake' in new book and, no, it wasn't the Tavares signing

While Toronto's former general manager doesn't regret pursuit of John Tavares and a multi-year contract, the fallout had consequences.

torontosun.com

 

[John Mandalorian]

Not only that, but as a manager, part of your job is managing risk.

ie. what if things don't go as forecast or to plan?

Nevermind opportunity cost. Signing Tavares might have made it impossible to sign Pietrangelo. Pietrangelo might have gone to Vegas anyway but it wasnt really a serious option. And Pietrangelo is just an example.

What also doesnt make sense is that he was so certain Matthews, Marner, and Nylander would be good players that he was willing to pay them what he did but you need give a huge contract to a FA whose age doesnt align with the other 3? And why, because hes from Toronto? Theres probably over 100 guys in the league that are from Toronto.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

There are so many answers here, like

1. I get they wanted a "coming home" trend by players, to any price, thats stupid. If the pricetag just is raising, you ask for a hometown discount and that NMC, not high salary AND a NMC. A real rookie misstake by Shannahan and Dubas.

2. When the pricetag kept raising, whybjust not leave it there? They also had other bigger needs. Esp. In a league where hreat 1D pairs is in a seldom commodity. They should had went for defenders with that dollars.

3. Dubas knew that the threw young forward stars would command dollars, and evem compare im between, but he settled himself in a complete trap.

Two years left of tavates, then toronto could be competing.

And i wpuld ask Tabares after the deal for that 1-3 million dollar contract - you got your money - now you have to give us some payback - if you really want to win the cup.

Dubas misstake that then just snowballed everything else.

That Matthews contract, I do have. It expires in his absomute prime, with just maxing out his dollars, bending over Dubas and Shamnahan completly. Then he put himself in a corner with the rest. HE did good with Nylander, but why just Nylander. Why not trying a hometown thing with Marner? Keep dollas a bit down and put in a NTC turning to a NMC, 6-8 years? Noo??

The right signings would had been
Tavares 8.75 M x 8 years NTC becoming a NMC, anounced as a hometown discount, and talks about future captain role.

Matthews to a 3 years x 11M
Marner to a 8 years x 8 millions.
Nylandernhis contract.

I saved almost 6 millions there.
And I put them on a defender.

Goalies, you can just pray for a find.

I'll just repeat what I said before. When you get a highly sought free agent and not have to give anything up but money, you take it. The very worst case should have been they give up one of the other guys for picks and prospects. So there real question is, would you have traded Marner for Tavares plus a couple of firsts and a top tier prospect? 'Cause that's what the return would have been on Marner or Nylander to completely offset Tavares' cap hit. The mistake was Dubas thinking he could keep all of these guys. Tavares was a no-brainer.

 

[Stephen]

The biggest sin of Dubas was that he created that bs entitled culture of the room.

Lou is a dinosaur, but players and agents respect/fear him. Which is 100 times better than Dubas'ses aproach to entitle and cuddle players.

Yeah, looking at the wreckage of the culture in that room, it's basically been an NBA starting five and a mercenary bench for the past number of years. The whole bet on yourself mercenary culture Dubas foisted to bring talent in on the short term created such a gross culture, to the point where young guys like Sandin were agitating for this and that. The whole chatter about talent, belief, super friends in the room. None of it means anything. Success isn't about belief and eventuality. The Dubas era was an object lesson on why there's even an old school.

 

[mogs]

This flat cap excuse for Dubas is getting old. Every team had to deal with it, it was a level playing field. Other teams were able to sign their guys to reasonable contracts and have success. Even if the cap went up some of the contracts Dubas gave out would still be bad.

 

[dgibb10]

People so eagerly forget the cap was suppose to go up but covid happened. It was an unfortunate circumstance that no one could predict.

Again, that would make sense if he paid up in AAV but made sure to get 8 years on all 3 of Marner, Matthews, and Nylander.

But he didn't.

 

[hotpaws]

I'll just repeat what I said before. When you get a highly sought free agent and not have to give anything up but money, you take it. The very worst case should have been they give up one of the other guys for picks and prospects. So there real question is, would you have traded Marner for Tavares plus a couple of firsts and a top tier prospect? 'Cause that's what the return would have been on Marner or Nylander to completely offset Tavares' cap hit. The mistake was Dubas thinking he could keep all of these guys. Tavares was a no-brainer.

so why didn't he go hard after Petro instead of saying he wasn't in on him because he didn't have the cap or more like he couldn't add another player for close to 8 digits without bottom feeding even more to fill out the roster ?

ufa's get overpaid which is fine but you don't overpay for a non need and you sure as hell don't sign an overrated non need player to at the time the highest cap hit in the league

you also sure as hell don't grossly overpay JT then trade a better much younger player !!!

I have no idea what type of player people think JT is and even now after 6 year of him failing to help the team advance deep in the playoffs people are still fluffing him .

it's also funny how i heard the Islanders were complete shit that poor Johnny had to carry on his back the 9 yrs he was there but had the most success they had since the 80's the second he left

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'll just repeat what I said before. When you get a highly sought free agent and not have to give anything up but money, you take it. The very worst case should have been they give up one of the other guys for picks and prospects. So there real question is, would you have traded Marner for Tavares plus a couple of firsts and a top tier prospect? 'Cause that's what the return would have been on Marner or Nylander to completely offset Tavares' cap hit. The mistake was Dubas thinking he could keep all of these guys. Tavares was a no-brainer.

And to repeat, that's a terrible way to run a hockey club in a cap environment. That's the mentality you use when there is no cap or when it's that joke of a cap they have in baseball, but it's a terrible way to manage the cap in the NHL. And the results speak for themselves.

I don't know how anyone can see what Tavares has done during his Leafs' tenure and *still* argue it was a good signing. You literally paid him the same type of money that the absolute elite guys get without getting even close to that kind of performance.

It's mind-boggling that he still has defenders, even with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Leafs87]

The fact that the Pen not only gave him A role but that role after his stint in Toronto is mind boggling. He’s been Dubassing for 2 years already and the team is about to miss the opportunity of an accelerated rebuild.

 

[Stephen]

This flat cap excuse for Dubas is getting old. Every team had to deal with it, it was a level playing field. Other teams were able to sign their guys to reasonable contracts and have success. Even if the cap went up some of the contracts Dubas gave out would still be bad.

Plus it’s not like they couldn’t have moved off any combination or quantity of the Big 4 during the pandemic to aggressively change course. Management is paid to deliver on results and not keep a boy band together.

It’s both funny and sad to hear him “reflect” on things when all the back seat drivers in the fanbase were literally like “no no no.” The whole time.

 

[Stephen]

I'll just repeat what I said before. When you get a highly sought free agent and not have to give anything up but money, you take it. The very worst case should have been they give up one of the other guys for picks and prospects. So there real question is, would you have traded Marner for Tavares plus a couple of firsts and a top tier prospect? 'Cause that's what the return would have been on Marner or Nylander to completely offset Tavares' cap hit. The mistake was Dubas thinking he could keep all of these guys. Tavares was a no-brainer.

Not criticizing you individually, but your second sentence about “any time you can do whatever you take it” is really indicative of the shallowness of Dubas style management. He is always full of those little dumb maxims for people who don’t know what they’re doing.

One important thing for a successful general manager is to be nimble on their feet in changing situations. If you’re constantly walking into scenarios with these “any time this happens you have to do the next thing” is just a recipe for disaster because you become a slave to your own rigid “no brainer” thought process.

In the case of Tavares, it was definitely a big fish most teams would have landed.

 

[rojac]

The fact that the Pen not only gave him A role but that role after his stint in Toronto is mind boggling. He’s been Dubassing for 2 years already and the team is about to miss the opportunity of an accelerated rebuild.

It could simply mean that the perception fans have of Dubas is not the same as the perception thatthose in the hockey industry have. We also don't know what the goals of the Penguins owners are and that's what orders Dubas is working under.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This flat cap excuse for Dubas is getting old. Every team had to deal with it, it was a level playing field. Other teams were able to sign their guys to reasonable contracts and have success. Even if the cap went up some of the contracts Dubas gave out would still be bad.

Agreed, when Lou left the team he had a star studded young core, a deep roster of great support players signed to good contracts courtesy of Lou getting Kadri signed at 4.5M, Hyman at 2.1M, Brown at 2.1 and over 28M in capspace to work with while inheriting an up and coming team off a 105 pts season. No reasonable excuse can be made for Dubas mismanagement of the cap or allowing such a deep roster of support players go. His failures were self made, he has to own it. He was and is just awful as a hockey exec. A pushover to agents and players. There is virtually nothing he did well with the Leafs. It's going to be interesting to see how he ruins the Pens too. Terrible hire, when he was named to the Management team of Team Canada, I just knew that team would go medal-less also, and he did not disappoint me either. They did.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Literally everyone knew that except him lol.

He's a GM that answers to blokes above him. So he outlined his moves to Shanahan and his cronies and they said ok looks good.

Dubas may have been an idiot on that. But bigger idiots sat there and said yeah that looks good.

 

[3074326]

Imagine having this clown as your president of hockey ops / GM. I feel sorry for Pens fans...

Don't, most of us have seen the team win five Cups. If you're going to feel bad for us, feel bad for us for having to deal with Toronto fans constantly bitching about Dubas since his arrival in Pittsburgh. Stalkers get arrested with less of an obsession.

 

[PaulD]

you can sing from the rooftops all day long "NEPOBABY" if you want, but he was successful everywhere except the NHL (hint hint, so are a lot of people the NHL isn't easy to win in)

I don't care for Toronto and I have no opinion on the penguins but being a nepobaby isn't a mark on Dubas. He had the chops to back it up until the NHL and his career isn't over yet. Saying hes a nepobaby isn't valid criticism beyond letting us know his family had connections, it bares nothing on him today.

neither does play off hockey

He's a GM that answers to blokes above him. So he outlined his moves to Shanahan and his cronies and they said ok looks good.

Dubas may have been an idiot on that. But bigger idiots sat there and said yeah that looks good.

Yea, like when the bigger idiot hired him.