Dubas calls signing Marner signing Marner "priority one"; "imperative" it happens before July 1.

[Nineteen67]

How about in your workplace? You're doing the same job as that guy making $45/hr and you've got the same amount of seniority. Are you taking $30/hr?

Heck no. Canadians are very resentful if anyone makes any money. In fact, one could say they are greedy and expect players to entertain them for free.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Hope is that Rantanen, Aho and Point sign prior to Marner. They will set the market which will hopefully be lower then we all expect Marner to receive. If Point can sign a contract for 7-8 million a season to keep with TB cap structure, and Rantanen signs for around the same in Colorado to keep with theirs. The Leafs will be in a great position to get Marner who is a winger to get less then expected. I believe he and his agent are at a disadvantage in these negotiations because Colorado and TB will keep the other players salaries lower then Marner's requests which means he cannot make more then them. All similar players and one of them is a center.

Should be interesting.

Point is holding out. Tampa at around 8M and Point at 12M. My guess is they will saw off around 10.5M. Point is the best player/centre on Tampa. And centres get more.

Marner will get around 10.5 too long term. But again the real coin here is going to be his non-hockey related sponsorship deals. My guess is Leafs will offer up some insane dollars/contracts for him. Tavares got 3.5M per on his 3 contracts. Maybe Mitch at 5M per. Anyways the Marner deal will get resolved pretty quickly. This has made made up for TV BS because of Willy. It is all for hits and likes.

 

[BlueForever75]

Point is holding out. Tampa at around 8M and Point at 12M. My guess is they will saw off around 10.5M. Point is the best player/centre on Tampa. And centres get more.

Marner will get around 10.5 too long term. But again the real coin here is going to be his non-hockey related sponsorship deals. My guess is Leafs will offer up some insane dollars/contracts for him. Tavares got 3.5M per on his 3 contracts. Maybe Mitch at 5M per. Anyways the Marner deal will get resolved pretty quickly. This has made made up for TV BS because of Willy. It is all for hits and likes.

If Point is going to sign for 10.5 how can Marner get that as a winger. And if Point gets 10.5 what do Kucherov and Stamkos say with their deals. Don't see it happening.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If Point is going to sign for 10.5 how can Marner get that as a winger. And if Point gets 10.5 what do Kucherov and Stamkos say with their deals. Don't see it happening.

It does not matter what Kuch and Stammer think. And both those guys already know that Point is better than both of them. Anyways I know one of Point's best buddies who is best buddies with one of my sons. Everyone thinks he will come off his 12M ask. Anyways we will see how long agent holds out as Point, like Marner, will get multiple OS's. And Tampa may have already decided to take back the 4 1st rounders who knows. This will be interesting to watch play out. Likely goes right to July 1st. Marner's deal will be resolved in short order. Again we know Mitch and Paul quite well.

 

[Notsince67]

I'm not sure what's so difficult for people to accept about the idea (fact) that Marner's camp has all along wanted to play out the ELC before signing. You consider the way his play was trending in last half season prior to last summer and and then look at the Tavares signing and how everyone found out that day (via Babcock) that he would play with Marner. Betting on yourself in that scenario makes perfect sense.

You are the one ignoring all the evidence. Numbers were exchanged. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The tax advantage keeps more net dollars in the player’s pocket.

Front loading contracts gives the player money upfront but they still pay the same tax on it as it is income.

Tampa was able to pay their players the same net amount at a lower AAV. The player’s bank account shows the same net amount in Tampa at 8.5 or in Toronto at 10.5.

That isn’t the same as “players taking a discount to build a winner.”

Players pay far less income tax when they’re paid in signing bonuses. You conveniently left that part out.

Again, Nylander has something like $25 million of his $42 in signing bonuses. Pastrnak just $7 mil, Ehlers NONE and Teravainen NONE.

So, again, why does “less tax” allow Tampa’s gm to get lower aav’s, but Dubas can’t get any affect in aav’s. And that’s not even including the financial advantages of a front loaded contract. Again, Nylander gets almost HALF his total money a mere SEVEN MONTHS after signing his contract. This didn’t happen to the “comparable” contracts.

Instead of all this spin, you can just admit it you know. Just admit it. Dubas is a rookie who f***ed up these contracts.

 

[Sypher04]

You are the one ignoring all the evidence. Numbers were exchanged. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

I'm not ignoring any evidence - there is a complete lack of it for me to be ignoring.
Even assuming numbers were exchanged, which I never claimed as some cursory level didn't happen, we have no idea what they would have been. Kypreos is NOT a credible source on his own.

 

[Pookie]

Players pay far less income tax when they’re paid in signing bonuses. You conveniently left that part out.

Again, Nylander has something like $25 million of his $42 in signing bonuses. Pastrnak just $7 mil, Ehlers NONE and Teravainen NONE.

So, again, why does “less tax” allow Tampa’s gm to get lower aav’s, but Dubas can’t get any affect in aav’s. And that’s not even including the financial advantages of a front loaded contract. Again, Nylander gets almost HALF his total money a mere SEVEN MONTHS after signing his contract. This didn’t happen to the “comparable” contracts.

Instead of all this spin, you can just admit it you know. Just admit it. Dubas is a rookie who ****ed up these contracts.

Where in the tax law in Canada does it say signing bonuses are not treated as income and taxed accordingly?

 

[BlueForever75]

It does not matter what Kuch and Stammer think. And both those guys already know that Point is better than both of them. Anyways I know one of Point's best buddies who is best buddies with one of my sons. Everyone thinks he will come off his 12M ask. Anyways we will see how long agent holds out as Point, like Marner, will get multiple OS's. And Tampa may have already decided to take back the 4 1st rounders who knows. This will be interesting to watch play out. Likely goes right to July 1st. Marner's deal will be resolved in short order. Again we know Mitch and Paul quite well.

Maybe the Leafs take 4 1st rounders for Marner and go out and sign Panarin for less!!!!

 

[yababy]

That brings back the human nature discussion again. Greed and envy are real things no matter how much we theoretically deny it.

Tavares was greed.
Matthews and Marner is fairness

 

[Notsince67]

I'm not ignoring any evidence - there is a complete lack of it for me to be ignoring.
Even assuming numbers were exchanged, which I never claimed as some cursory level didn't happen, we have no idea what they would have been. Kypreos is NOT a credible source on his own.

Ferris claimed a lowball. Hard to do that unless you have exchanged a number. Numbers were exchanged. Your premise that Marner only wanted to bet on himself is thus proven to be false.

 

[Sypher04]

Ferris claimed a lowball. Hard to do that unless you have exchanged a number. Numbers were exchanged. Your premise that Marner only wanted to bet on himself is thus proven to be false.

Your logic here is odd. Just because they think they were lowballed doesn't necessarily mean they were ever really seriously negotiating beyond receiving an offer from the Leafs. Which is why I said cursory numbers were likely at least exchanged - the point being, we have no idea what they were.

Being low-balled, but also have a strong preference to bet on himself are simply not mutually exclusive.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Maybe the Leafs take 4 1st rounders for Marner and go out and sign Panarin for less!!!!

Maybe. I hope Shanny does not take too long to review/revise the blue print, Dubie and Babs. But he is deliberate.

Panarin is more of a pure sniper and JT and Matty are more sniper types too. I just don't think the fit makes most sense. Mitch is the perfect fit for JT and results are tangible. I can't see shanny moving off that plan.

Next year when everyone sees Bracco and how well he fits with Matty i think everything will fall in place. But Babs is a stubborn man and we don't have the LW piece for that line yet. Maybe they slot Moore up there. or maybe they trade for that piece. but Babs maybe thinking of putting Marleau there who knows? I hope everyone can get their sh*t together because we are ral close.

 

[Notsince67]

Your logic here is odd. Just because they think they were lowballed doesn't necessarily mean they were ever really seriously negotiating beyond receiving an offer from the Leafs. Which is why I said cursory numbers were likely at least exchanged.

Being low-balled, but also have a strong preference to bet on himself are simply not mutually exclusive.

Really big stretch here. You first discount evidence from Kypreos saying he isnt credible. Now you contend that during a negotiation of price, there was no offer from one party despite the fact that they publicly said they would negotiate until the season began. It is absurd.

 

[Sypher04]

Really big stretch here. You first discount evidence from Kypreos saying he isnt credible. Now you contend that during a negotiation of price, there was no offer from one party despite the fact that they publicly said they would negotiate until the season began. It is absurd.

It's not absurd and there may have been no formal offer from either tbh, just general talks. There could have been both, we really just don't know. But, I don't feel like having a circular argument with you on this tbh. I'm moving on.

 

[diceman934]

You are the one ignoring all the evidence. Numbers were exchanged. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Paul Marner and the agent both said so in the media. Why are people ignoring this?

 

[Sypher04]

Paul Marner and the agent both said so in the media. Why are people ignoring this?

I literally never said numbers weren't exchanged, but that does not make Kypreos' "report" of 8x9m accurate.
They are separate things altogether.

 

[disgruntleddave]

Where in the tax law in Canada does it say signing bonuses are not treated as income and taxed accordingly?

Not even considering the fact that money now is worth more than money later: signing bonus taxes depends on their principal residence. For Matthews, he took a lot in bonuses because the tax rate in Arizona is lower than the effective tax rate would be in Toronto. I'm not sure about nylander, but it could also be the case.

If Marner's principal residence is in Toronto, a signing bonus heavy contract will not give him a tax advantage. It could even be a disadvantage because it would all be taxed at a high rate, whereas salary is taxed based on game location. The average tax rate over a season will be lower than the tax rate in some places like Toronto.

 

[thewave]

I literally never said numbers weren't exchanged, but that does not make Kypreos' "report" of 8x9m accurate.
They are separate things altogether.

It's 99% accurate in a situation like this. Marners dad or the agent would leak it for sure because it helps their cause. Nobody else argued against in the hockey circles if that means anything to you as well.

 

[Sypher04]

It's 99% accurate in a situation like this. Marners dad or the agent would leak it for sure because it helps their cause. Nobody else argued against in the hockey circles if that means anything to you as well.

not arguing against it is a very far cry from corroborating it. Even if the numbers make some sense, it still doesn't make the report credible. And Kypreos' track record isn't especially strong.

 

[Notsince67]

Paul Marner and the agent both said so in the media. Why are people ignoring this?

Inconvenient truth along with the truth that Marner is their best player and it is highly unlikely that they will get into a pissing match with him.

 

[BlueForever75]

Marner does not get paid more then Tavares or Matthews I will put $$$$ to it. Who ever is willing to bet I am open for business.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

not arguing against it is a very far cry from corroborating it. Even if the numbers make some sense, it still doesn't make the report credible. And Kypreos' track record isn't especially strong.

Like I said much earlier this was worst kept secret around the Leafs. Paul told everyone he talked to. This was widely circulated. And Kyper reported it very very late. He only did that because it was all verbal so he took a bit of a risk. Paul talking to his friends. Unless someone taped his conversations no one else would know.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Where in the tax law in Canada does it say signing bonuses are not treated as income and taxed accordingly?

Just like with the “no tax states”, it’s difficult to find how it specifically works and get to the ACTUAL money saved by such tax benefits. There’s that article recently that said that Stone only saved $75k a year by playing in a city with no state tax. $75k a year? So why do Tampa players sign for millions less per year?

Similarly, I can’t find a specific break down of tax benefits in signing bonuses. This article says that signing bonuses offer tax breaks that “vary by state and province”.
How signing bonuses impact Senators' chances of keeping Duchene, Stone - Sportsnet.ca

Regardless, it is INDISPUTABLE that a heavily front loaded contract paid in signing bonuses is of a MAJOR financial advantage for a player. Do you deny this?

If not, why aren’t we seeing any cap relief from Dubas’ contracts?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Marner does not get paid more then Tavares or Matthews I will put $$$$ to it. Who ever is willing to bet I am open for business.

You are 100% right wrt the CAP and CBA