Dubas appreciation thread

[Buds17]

Are you going to be happy if they beat the Oilers in round 1 and then lost round 2, just because they "showed they can win in the playoffs"?

Yes. I remember 03-04. Yes.

 

[Critical13]

Tavares numbers since he signed with the Leafs:

Ranking out of the 137 forwards with at least 2500+:

All Situations:
Goals/60:

1. Pasta
2. Matthews
3. Ovi
4. Stamkos
5. Bergeron
6. Drasaitl
7. Kucherov
8. Tavares

Points/60:

18. Gaudreau
19. Tavares
20. Eichel

Hey Zyb, I don't know how to do this but maybe you do - what are his #s away from Marner?

 

[RogerR]

Isn't it funny Bergevin gets GM of the year mentions in the media for a hot first 2 weeks and Dubas still got shit on

 

[X66]

personally, battling teams like Boston and Washington to pretty much pick'em series says a lot.

but beating a bad team in round 1 says/accomplishes what?

This is the key.

Everyone has a hard-on for who far the Islanders made it last year, but everyone knew they had zero chance to beat the Lightning, a team that Leafs would have played in round ONE last year lol.

This is why winning rounds doesn't really say much, if the Leafs beat the Bruins in either of the last two game 7's, would people really be saying that the Canes or Islanders are better than the Bruins because they made round 2/3 and the Bruins didn't?

No lol

People hate to hear it but the first two rounds of the Atlantic are the real conference finals.

 

[zeke]

Doesn't matter what you remember, you're still wrong.

Hint - it's almost never a good idea to assume that you can speak for everyone.

for the handful I'm wrong about what they would feel --- i'll disagree with what they would feel.

you shouldn't gain any encouragement from beating a bad team in the playoffs. or winning an upset series due to goaltending or luck or whatever. because it says nothing about your team.

Just like Gilmour's leafs were always a pretender, while the Yzerman Wings they beat were clearly a contender on the rise.

 

[RogerR]

This is the key.

Everyone has a hard-on for who far the Islanders made it last year, but everyone knew they had zero chance to beat the Lightning, a team that Leafs would have played in round ONE last year lol.

This is why winning rounds doesn't really say much, if the Leafs beat the Bruins in either of the last two game 7's, would people really be saying that the Canes or Islanders are better than the Bruins because they made round 2/3 and the Bruins didn't?

No lol

People hate to hear it but the first two rounds of the Atlantic are the real conference finals.

It doesn't, yet people are so lazy with that narrative. Opponents you face is such a huge factor. And to be hung up on what happened in previous years with diferent rosters? Dallas made the finals last year and it's looking like no playoffs for them.

 

[ToneDog]

It doesn't, yet people are so lazy with that narrative. Opponents you face is such a huge factor. And to be hung up on what happened in previous years with diferent rosters? Dallas made the finals last year and it's looking like no playoffs for them.

Dallas has seven (7) games in hand on Chicago and Columbus. I'd hold off some before writing them off and even if they do miss, you can't ignore the impact of COVID, power outages and having to make up so many games, on their season.

 

[Gary Nylund]

for the handful I'm wrong about what they would feel --- i'll disagree with what they would feel.

you shouldn't gain any encouragement from beating a bad team in the playoffs. or winning an upset series due to goaltending or luck or whatever. because it says nothing about your team.

Just like Gilmour's leafs were always a pretender, while the Yzerman Wings they beat were clearly a contender on the rise.

Beating a bad team is at the very least better than losing to a bad team. Had we played better we would have beaten CLB last season which would have been infinitely preferable to losing to them.

As for Gilmours Leafs, calling them "a pretender" is just bizarre IMO. They were no more a pretender than Roy's Canadiens and guess what, they won the cup. Maybe you wouldn't have been happy to win the cup because we were just pretenders in your eyes, I sure as hell would have been and I suspect 99.99% of Leaf fans would agree with me.

 

[ToneDog]

Fact is we have lost to better and worse teams in the past 4 playoffs. They say that teams need to learn how to lose before they win, but fact is you got to win a round in order to advance. Who cares who you beat, just do it.

 

[RogerR]

Dallas has seven (7) games in hand on Chicago and Columbus. I'd hold off some before writing them off and even if they do miss, you can't ignore the impact of COVID, power outages and having to make up so many games, on their season.

Playing so few games makes their schedule much tougher. Islanders could miss too after going to E.Conf. fuinals. The past is the past

 

[Gary Nylund]

Fact is we have lost to better and worse teams in the past 4 playoffs. They say that teams need to learn how to lose before they win, but fact is you got to win a round in order to advance. Who cares who you beat, just do it.

This is exactly what I was commenting on earlier - it's really odd to me to say winning a round against a bad team is no big deal as if you win the 1st round, you still have a chance to win the cup. I thought we had a chance to win it all last season I really did so yeah, to me losing in the 1st round really sucked.

 

[ToneDog]

Playing so few games makes their schedule much tougher. Islanders could miss too after going to E.Conf. fuinals. The past is the past

Isles are in the best division in hockey and yes, could miss but the Flyers might be the Dallas Stars of the East. We need life to go back to normal to get a better sense what teams are. Good thing is that when they do, Bergeron, Marchand, Krecji, Matty, Willie and Mitch will be one year older.

 

[RogerR]

Isles are in the best division in hockey and yes, could miss but the Flyers might be the Dallas Stars of the East. We need life to go back to normal to get a better sense what teams are. Good thing is that when they do, Bergeron, Marchand, Krecji, Matty, Willie and Mitch will be one year older.

Isles also lost 7 in a row and got the luckiest break from COVID shutdown last year.

 

[ToneDog]

Isles also lost 7 in a row and got the luckiest break from COVID shutdown last year.

Habs got the luckiest break but at the end of the day wouldn't it be great to see the Leafs and Isles meet in round 3 or better yet, round 4 and settle the debate of who is better ??

 

[Gary Nylund]

Habs got the luckiest break but at the end of the day wouldn't it be great to see the Leafs and Isles meet in round 3 or better yet, round 4 and settle the debate of who is better ??

Haha round 4. Odds of that happening have to be about ... oh I dunno, 2000 to 1 maybe?

Would be awesome though, even more drama then playing Boston especially when I think of what the NYI crowd was like when Tavares was back there for the first time as a Leaf.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Yeah I'd say we did, not by as much as I had hoped though and not by enough to win. So many of our chances came from the outside, we fanned on some prime chances (Tavares missing the empty net being the most memorable one for me), our zillion dollar offence laid a gigantic goose egg is basically what happened.

I'm not sure how impressive beating CLB would have been, definitely more impressive that losing though. And what some people might be missing is that if beat CLB, we have a change to win another round and after that, another again. That's how you win the cup, one series at a time and if you don't get past the first round, that's the end.

Look on the bright side, at least Doobler made history last year. First Leafs GM to lose a postseason series to the 9th place team in the East.

 

[Zybalto]

Hey Zyb, I don't know how to do this but maybe you do - what are his #s away from Marner?

Can't figure out a way to do goal/points totals at a glance but in terms of advanced stats and goal differential since Tavares was signed:

5v5:
Tavares/Marner together:
CF% 53.71
xGF% 54.41
GF% 56.25

Tavares without Marner:
CF% 52.72
xGF% 51.36
GF% 51.07

Marner without Tavares:
CF% 50.01
xGF% 53.32
GF% 59.90


Really dynamite combination together and it's no surprise to see Marner with an even more insane GF% when your playing with the greatest 5v5 goal scorer in the world.


GF/60 on the Powerplay:

Tavares/Marner together: 10.81
Tavares without Marner: 10.03
Marner without Tavares: 7.64
Team without either: 5.16

 

[Zybalto]

Look on the bright side, at least Doobler made history last year. First Leafs GM to lose a postseason series to the 9th place team in the East.

Both 12th seeds won their play in series as well. It kind of shows how important making the playoffs is above all else. Anything can happen.

Tampa getting swept in the first round the year before mattered very little as they didnt even touch their core, came back and won it the next year.

 

[Critical13]

Can't figure out a way to do goal/points totals at a glance but in terms of advanced stats and goal differential since Tavares was signed:

5v5:
Tavares/Marner together:
CF% 53.71
xGF% 54.41
GF% 56.25

Tavares without Marner:
CF% 52.72
xGF% 51.36
GF% 51.07

Marner without Tavares:
CF% 50.01
xGF% 53.32
GF% 59.90


Really dynamite combination together and it's no surprise to see Marner with an even more insane GF% when your playing with the greatest 5v5 goal scorer in the world.


GF/60 on the Powerplay:

Tavares/Marner together: 10.81
Tavares without Marner: 10.03
Marner without Tavares: 7.64
Team without either: 5.16

Thanks!

 

[zeke]

Beating a bad team is at the very least better than losing to a bad team. Had we played better we would have beaten CLB last season which would have been infinitely preferable to losing to them.

As for Gilmours Leafs, calling them "a pretender" is just bizarre IMO. They were no more a pretender than Roy's Canadiens and guess what, they won the cup. Maybe you wouldn't have been happy to win the cup because we were just pretenders in your eyes, I sure as hell would have been and I suspect 99.99% of Leaf fans would agree with me.

Dougie's leafs were a fun gritty undertalented underdog.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dougie's leafs were a fun gritty undertalented underdog.

That team was better than a lot better then some people think. 99 points in the regular season, just 7 points more and they would have tied for first in the conference. Only one team got more than 110 points that seaon and they got knocked out before the final which isn't even that uncommon an occurence (see TB only recently). The Leafs had great goaltending, a blue line that was more than solid and forwards who made up what they lacked in finishing ability by playing extremely well defensively all the time (only one team allowed less goals that season). Add a couple of game breakers to the mix (Clark, Andreychuk) and of course Gilmour who was maybe the best player in the NHL that season and that was a damn good team.

They were up 3-2 in the 3rd round, one more win and they're in the final playing a team that finished only 3 points ahead of them in the regular season, basically a tossup.

Underdogs for sure. But not massive underdogs and underdogs win sometimes - again, see the team who did win the cup that season, it can happen.

 

[rumman]

That team was better than a lot better then some people think. 99 points in the regular season, just 7 points more and they would have tied for first in the conference. Only one team got more than 110 points that seaon and they got knocked out before the final which isn't even that uncommon an occurence (see TB only recently). The Leafs had great goaltending, a blue line that was more than solid and forwards who made up what they lacked in finishing ability by playing extremely well defensively all the time (only one team allowed less goals that season). Add a couple of game breakers to the mix (Clark, Andreychuk) and of course Gilmour who was maybe the best player in the NHL that season and that was a damn good team.

They were up 3-2 in the 3rd round, one more win and they're in the final playing a team that finished only 3 points ahead of them in the regular season, basically a tossup.

Underdogs for sure. But not massive underdogs and underdogs win sometimes - again, see the team who did win the cup that season, it can happen.

Those teams were solid from top to bottom, and for the young members of Leaf Nation who freak out at the ref’s “jobbing” the Leafs every game consider, this team was one Kerry Fraser “robbery” away from going to the cup finals...........

 

[zeke]

That team was better than a lot better then some people think. 99 points in the regular season, just 7 points more and they would have tied for first in the conference. Only one team got more than 110 points that seaon and they got knocked out before the final which isn't even that uncommon an occurence (see TB only recently). The Leafs had great goaltending, a blue line that was more than solid and forwards who made up what they lacked in finishing ability by playing extremely well defensively all the time (only one team allowed less goals that season). Add a couple of game breakers to the mix (Clark, Andreychuk) and of course Gilmour who was maybe the best player in the NHL that season and that was a damn good team.

They were up 3-2 in the 3rd round, one more win and they're in the final playing a team that finished only 3 points ahead of them in the regular season, basically a tossup.

Underdogs for sure. But not massive underdogs and underdogs win sometimes - again, see the team who did win the cup that season, it can happen.

Well now you get to cheer for one of the favorites, not an underdog. It's not quite as easy as cheering for a lovable underdog.

But try to enjoy it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well now you get to cheer for one of the favorites, not an underdog. It's not quite as easy as cheering for a lovable underdog.

But try to enjoy it.

LOL. Not sure why you would think I'm not enjoying it. Keep it real Zeke.

And don't forget that we were favorites against CLB, I enjoyed cheering for us then as well though it became less enjoyable as the series went on. Let's hope we do better this time around.

 

[rumman]

LOL. Not sure why you would think I'm not enjoying it. Keep it real Zeke.

And don't forget that we were favorites against CLB, I enjoyed cheering for us then as well though it became less enjoyable as the series went on. Let's hope we do better this time around.

Yup, the narrative before that series was Columbus played good D, but not good enough to contain the Leafs offense. Guess that was a miscalculation?