Duante Abercrombie - new Coaching Development Associate

[CanadasTeam]

and he may be qualified for this position but i'd bet he's in some way connected or at least knows someone who's already in our organization

It's the HOCKEY way.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Lol you’re lost in the head man. If anyone has any idea it’s me considering I am a black hockey fan myself. Who gives a shit whether they are black and from Ontario or from Alberta or black and from anywhere in the US. The criteria isn’t limited to Black Canadians. It’s black people in general.

Clearly they went through the process and if there were any black ontarian candidates the leafs felt they weren’t the best fit for whatever reason. You’re reading way too much into this. The nationality doesn’t matter, what matters is that organizations are giving people of colour an opportunity to work hard and grow within an NHL organization.

Yes it does matter. Clearly you have different view. Why do you suggest black...what happened to all the Muslim fans of Naz Kadri in London.
Charity begins local....help minorities here first.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Additionally last year the Black woman (Marian Agyei Gyamera) they hired for the Management Development Associate Role was from Ontario and the Black man (T.J. Millar) they hired for the Coaching Development Associate role was from Calgary.

Every year they choose two new people to be in those roles.. So no they aren't excluding people from Ontario or Canada.

Marian Agyei-Gyamera Joins Maple Leafs' Management Development Program | Toronto Maple Leafs

The Toronto Maple Leafs today introduced Marian Agyei-Gyamera as the successful management candidate to take part in the club's newly formed Management and Coaching Development program. Agyei-Gyamera was selected for the role following an extensive and competitive application and interview...

www.nhl.com

T.J. Millar Joins Maple Leafs' Coaching Development Program | Toronto Maple Leafs

The Toronto Maple Leafs announced today that hockey coach T.J. Millar will join the club as part of its newly introduced Management and Coaching Development program. Millar was selected for the coaching role following an extensive and competitive application and interview process with many...

www.nhl.com

But they should exclude people from Africa, Mexico etc, and even the US as long as there are thousands in the shadow of our own arena

 

[francis246]

But they should exclude people from Africa, Mexico etc, and even the US as long as there are thousands in the shadow of our own arena

are you on crack? or do you just not know how to read? It's only open to BLACK OR INDIGENOUS PEOPLES.

 

[francis246]

Yes it does matter. Clearly you have different view. Why do you suggest black...what happened to all the Muslim fans of Naz Kadri in London.
Charity begins local....help minorities here first.

THEY ARE, holy f***. The hired two Canadians last year. The program only accepts two people a year. You can be black and Muslim and still qualify, you can be african canadian or african american and still qualify. You can be from a country in africa and still qualify. Please learn to read and comprehend basics before engaging in discussions. You clearly don't know or understand shit about diversity or minority hiring like you claim.

We don't even know who the second person is who was hired for the management position. They very well could be from Ontario.

 

[Leafblooded]

Fitch that

 

[Niagara Bill]

THEY ARE, holy f***. The hired two Canadians last year. The program only accepts two people a year. You can be black and Muslim and still qualify, you can be african canadian or african american and still qualify. You can be from a country in africa and still qualify. Please learn to read and comprehend basics before engaging in discussions. You clearly don't know or understand shit about diversity or minority hiring like you claim.

We don't even know who the second person is who was hired for the management position. They very well could be from Ontario.

I know a great deal about minority hiring. IMHO, giving the opportunity to a young person from the shadows of your own arena is a far better option than from Massachusetts or Nigeria.
Last year was better with 2 Canadians. The reach of the NHL to consider a candidate from a country in Africa is ridiculous when thousands locally need the boast.
End of conversation.

 

[francis246]

I know a great deal about minority hiring. IMHO, giving the opportunity to a young person from the shadows of your own arena is a far better option than from Massachusetts or Nigeria.
Last year was better with 2 Canadians. The reach of the NHL to consider a candidate from a country in Africa is ridiculous when thousands locally need the boast.
End of conversation.

Leave it to a white male to tell minorities what’s good/better for them!! lol, Sounds about right! You’re delusional man and represent everything wrong with society today in a lot of ways. Do some research bud.

Highly doubt anyone from Africa is applying. It would mainly be US/Canadian/European black or indigenous people.

Also if you actually believe there are thousands of applicants from Ontario you don’t know anything. It’s probably way less than that. Maybe less than a hundred, which is why it’s open to any black person in the world involved in hockey and not focused solely in Canada. The criteria is very specific. That’s the whole point of this program. To grow the game and reach that community/demographic. Which is something you can’t seem to understand.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Leave it to a white male to tell minorities what’s good/better for them!! lol, Sounds about right! You’re delusional man and represent everything wrong with society today in a lot of ways. Do some research bud.

Highly doubt anyone from Africa is applying. It would mainly be US/Canadian/European black or indigenous people.

Also if you actually believe there are thousands of applicants from Ontario you don’t know anything. It’s probably way less than that. Maybe less than a hundred, which is why it’s open to any black person in the world involved in hockey and not focused solely in Canada. The criteria is very specific. That’s the whole point of this program. To grow the game and reach that community/demographic. Which is something you can’t seem to understand.

You are an arrogant a??. Probably does not make your position.
sugesting I represent all that is wrong.
you have no idea of my skin, background or education. Minority programs include outreach, so if the Leafs have to go to the US or Nigeria then their outreach efforts are not worth poop.
So now it's European not African...
Like I said
End of conversation.
Ps, skin colour does not give you super intelligence on any subject, be it white, black, brown or indigenous.

 

[francis246]

You are an arrogant a??. Probably does not make your position.
sugesting I represent all that is wrong.
you have no idea of my skin, background or education. Minority programs include outreach, so if the Leafs have to go to the US or Nigeria then their outreach efforts are not worth poop.
So now it's European not African...
Like I said
End of conversation.
Ps, skin colour does not give you super intelligence on any subject, be it white, black, brown or indigenous.

The fact that you can’t even comprehend black North American people are descendants of African’s is hilarious to me. Again any out reach to the black community as a whole is effective and a positive step in right direction. Doesn’t matter where they live or their nationality. Especially given the fact that black individuals in hockey are far and few. Something you don’t understand and can’t comprehend because you are obviously not black.

Additionally, the fact that you think somehow black Americans are less deserving of opportunities from an NHL club than Black Canadians is just stupid and actually shows your ignorance to the situation. Like you said, end of conversation.

 

[Niagara Bill]

The fact that you can’t even comprehend black North American people are descendants of African’s is hilarious to me. Again any out reach to the black community as a whole is effective and a positive step in right direction. Doesn’t matter where they live or their nationality. Especially given the fact that black individuals in hockey are far and few. Something you don’t understand and can’t comprehend because you are obviously not black.

Additionally, the fact that you think somehow black Americans are less deserving of opportunities from an NHL club than Black Canadians is just stupid and actually shows your ignorance to the situation. Like you said, end of conversation.

This has gone too far on a sports board.

 

[francis246]

This has gone too far on a sports board.

No it really hasn’t. It relates to hockey and the growth of the game. These conversations are important. They aren’t comfortable and they aren’t meant to be.

 

[therealkoho]

Hey just wait one gosh darn minute, I played hockey for over 35 years, shouldn't I too have a job in hockey?

 

[therealkoho]

This has gone too far on a sports board.

besides we're all descendant's of Africa

The fact that you can’t even comprehend black North American people are descendants of African’s is hilarious to me. Again any out reach to the black community as a whole is effective and a positive step in right direction. Doesn’t matter where they live or their nationality. Especially given the fact that black individuals in hockey are far and few. Something you don’t understand and can’t comprehend because you are obviously not black.

Additionally, the fact that you think somehow black Americans are less deserving of opportunities from an NHL club than Black Canadians is just stupid and actually shows your ignorance to the situation. Like you said, end of conversation.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are a Canadian company operating in Canada as such Canadian hires should be their first priority you would think. Sounds reasonable right? It's the way it's done in the USA right?

 

[francis246]

besides we're all descendant's of Africa


The Toronto Maple Leafs are a Canadian company operating in Canada as such Canadian hires should be their first priority you would think. Sounds reasonable right? It's the way it's done in the USA right?

No. They are a Canadian company looking to hire the best people possible. So let's trade Matthews then LOL. We shouldn't employ American hockey players there are too many good Canadian hockey players out there. What a stupid take lol. You can't pick and choose when the company should prioritize hiring Canadians.

Additionally, look at the criteria for each position. It's specific to Black or Indigenous people who are CURRENTLY involved in some level of hockey and have a PASSION AND DESIRE FOR ADVANCING their careers in hockey. The pool of Black or Indigenous Ontarian's involved in hockey who are not volunteers (key part you seem to be ignoring for whatever reason) and desire to work in the NHL is probably so small. That is why it is not restricted to just Canadians because then you would not have a big enough pool to select from. It's not rocket science.

 

[therealkoho]

No. They are a Canadian company looking to hire the best people possible. So let's trade Matthews then LOL. We shouldn't employ American hockey players there are too many good Canadian hockey players out there. What a stupid take lol. You can't pick and choose when the company should prioritize hiring Canadians.

Additionally, look at the criteria for each position. It's specific to Black or Indigenous people who are CURRENTLY involved in some level of hockey and have a PASSION AND DESIRE FOR ADVANCING their careers in hockey. The pool of Black or Indigenous Ontarian's involved in hockey who are not volunteers (key part you seem to be ignoring for whatever reason) and desire to work in the NHL is probably so small. That is why it is not restricted to just Canadians because then you would not have a big enough pool to select from. It's not rocket science.

So not really the "best" people possible, just the best within a specific demographic. You seem to be ignoring that little bit of, ahem, "rocket science."

It does seem like somebody is trying to make this a racial thing, which to my mind is a little unnecessary.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

No. They are a Canadian company looking to hire the best people possible. So let's trade Matthews then LOL. We shouldn't employ American hockey players there are too many good Canadian hockey players out there. What a stupid take lol. You can't pick and choose when the company should prioritize hiring Canadians.

Additionally, look at the criteria for each position. It's specific to Black or Indigenous people who are CURRENTLY involved in some level of hockey and have a PASSION AND DESIRE FOR ADVANCING their careers in hockey. The pool of Black or Indigenous Ontarian's involved in hockey who are not volunteers (key part you seem to be ignoring for whatever reason) and desire to work in the NHL is probably so small. That is why it is not restricted to just Canadians because then you would not have a big enough pool to select from. It's not rocket science.

As someone applying for jobs in the US, they typically do not discriminate against Canadians. The government does, but I am sure they do the same here. You need to do a job which they realistically feel an American cannot do, but usually if the company wants you enough, they can figure out some way to make you meet the criteria (for the visa).

The one thing I will say though is that I do not think the main goal of this position is to hire the best person possible. If it was, they would not limit the vast majority of their potential pool by only accepting Black or Indigenous candidates. Obviously they still expect this person to be qualified and help the Leafs in some shape or form, but the chances of them finding that "best person" by cutting out what is likely 90% of the qualified candidates solely based on demographic is exactly that: 10% (assuming there is no inherent demographical superiority of course). It is not like they had this position available for everyone at some point, or they have another position where everyone has a chance to get the job. It is an opportunity to give the best from underrepresented groups in hockey a chance to learn and grow, which may allow them to find people who they otherwise may not have found, get new perspectives, and of course there is some good PR in there too.

It is just like if the Leafs only drafted the best guy from the Soo every year (which everyone thinks is what happens, but it doesn't). That doesn't mean you won't get a good player, but you are probably leaving better players on the table most of the time.

The only thing I would probably change is that they should make opportunities available for everyone to apply on top of this position. There are a lot of very talented and qualified non-diverse candidates who never get a chance in hockey because they do not have connections and there are not opportunities like this available to them. Scout the entire pool and you may find someone that you otherwise would have ignored entirely. Of course even suggesting this would likely get me cancelled so who really knows.

 

[Bichael Munting]

No. They are a Canadian company looking to hire the best people possible. So let's trade Matthews then LOL. We shouldn't employ American hockey players there are too many good Canadian hockey players out there. What a stupid take lol. You can't pick and choose when the company should prioritize hiring Canadians.

Additionally, look at the criteria for each position. It's specific to Black or Indigenous people who are CURRENTLY involved in some level of hockey and have a PASSION AND DESIRE FOR ADVANCING their careers in hockey. The pool of Black or Indigenous Ontarian's involved in hockey who are not volunteers (key part you seem to be ignoring for whatever reason) and desire to work in the NHL is probably so small. That is why it is not restricted to just Canadians because then you would not have a big enough pool to select from. It's not rocket science.

You’re one of the few who are making any sense here. When people can no longer gatekeep around race and ethnicity, they gatekeep around nationality. It’s absurd.

I know that these are important conversations to have with the hockey community, but some of these replies are exhausting.

EDIT: Congrats to Duante. The only way to get experience is to, you know, experience the work. It’s the entire point of the program.

 

[Bichael Munting]

The only thing I would probably change is that they should make opportunities available for everyone to apply on top of this position. There are a lot of very talented and qualified non-diverse candidates who never get a chance in hockey because they do not have connections and there are not opportunities like this available to them. Scout the entire pool and you may find someone that you otherwise would have ignored entirely. Of course even suggesting this would likely get me cancelled so who really knows.

Not that I’m trying to cancel you — honestly, I think you’re super thoughtful and you clearly know your hockey — but I think this program is geared towards Black and Indigenous candidates because it’s acknowledging legitimate structural-level inequalities they have in hockey (and outside it too).

That’s not to say there aren’t other deserving candidates, or ones in really unexpected places. And it’s not to say the org shouldn’t look try to uncover those people. But based on its criteria, this program is trying to create opportunities for Black and Indigenous people — and for good reason. It should exist, and its existence shouldn’t exclude (or temper our desire) for additional diversity initiatives.

I think we should be asking for even more.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Not that I’m trying to cancel you — honestly, I think you’re super thoughtful and you clearly know your hockey — but I think this program is geared towards Black and Indigenous candidates because it’s acknowledging legitimate structural-level inequalities they have in hockey (and outside it too).

That’s not to say there aren’t other deserving candidates, or ones in really unexpected places. And it’s not to say the org shouldn’t look try to uncover those people. But based on its criteria, this program is trying to create opportunities for Black and Indigenous people — and for good reason. It should exist, and its existence shouldn’t exclude (or temper our desire) for additional diversity initiatives.

I think we should be asking for even more.

That is why I think it should be in addition to it. Keep this exact program, or even add more positions within this program, to give those opportunities to underrepresented communities, but then have another identical program available that is open for everyone to apply. Tons of companies do that, and the Leafs are rich enough to pay for a few extra associate positions (which effectively is entry-level) to bring in the right talent. They would be developing executives, scouts, and coaches like they develop players and nobody is left behind.

It is a tough balance to achieve, and it is not made easier due to a mutual lack of understanding of the other's perspective.

 

[francis246]

You’re one of the few who are making any sense here. When people can no longer gatekeep around race and ethnicity, they gatekeep around nationality. It’s absurd.

I know that these are important conversations to have with the hockey community, but some of these replies are exhausting.

EDIT: Congrats to Duante. The only way to get experience is to, you know, experience the work. It’s the entire point of the program.

Thank you, I agree they are very important conversations. It is exhausting but I’m trying to come from a place of understanding because I recognize that some people are not aware of their privilege or just out right lack knowledge on these topics.

It’s amazing that the leafs and other organizations are recognizing that there is room for growth in this area and that there are many individuals of colour who love hockey and with opportunity can contribute mightily to their club.

 

[francis246]

As someone applying for jobs in the US, they typically do not discriminate against Canadians. The government does, but I am sure they do the same here. You need to do a job which they realistically feel an American cannot do, but usually if the company wants you enough, they can figure out some way to make you meet the criteria (for the visa).

The one thing I will say though is that I do not think the main goal of this position is to hire the best person possible. If it was, they would not limit the vast majority of their potential pool by only accepting Black or Indigenous candidates. Obviously they still expect this person to be qualified and help the Leafs in some shape or form, but the chances of them finding that "best person" by cutting out what is likely 90% of the qualified candidates solely based on demographic is exactly that: 10% (assuming there is no inherent demographical superiority of course). It is not like they had this position available for everyone at some point, or they have another position where everyone has a chance to get the job. It is an opportunity to give the best from underrepresented groups in hockey a chance to learn and grow, which may allow them to find people who they otherwise may not have found, get new perspectives, and of course there is some good PR in there too.

It is just like if the Leafs only drafted the best guy from the Soo every year (which everyone thinks is what happens, but it doesn't). That doesn't mean you won't get a good player, but you are probably leaving better players on the table most of the time.

The only thing I would probably change is that they should make opportunities available for everyone to apply on top of this position. There are a lot of very talented and qualified non-diverse candidates who never get a chance in hockey because they do not have connections and there are not opportunities like this available to them. Scout the entire pool and you may find someone that you otherwise would have ignored entirely. Of course even suggesting this would likely get me cancelled so who really knows.

They are looking to add the best candidate based on the criteria they set out. The whole point of this program is to create opportunity for the most marginalized group out there. Which is Black and Indigenous people.

I agree with you there are many people outside that marginalized group who have the passion and skills to work in the NHL. They may not have the connections. However they are still at a decisive advantage compared to black and indigenous people because they are white. I know it’s not the most flattering thing to hear but it’s the truth. The NHL is predominately white. So they are more likely to get interviews and job offers based on that fact alone. This program aims to level the playing field for marginalized groups.

 

[paulhiggins]

This has EVERYTHING to do with politics. Why is he being given the fast track due to his skin colour? Is this not a land of equal opportunity? I feel sorry for the others that have to work their way up instead of getting things handed to them on a platter. Let him work his way through the minors like everyone else and let the best person win the job. Are the Leafs the poster child for reverse discrimination? Choosing people for a job based on skin colour is very un-Canadian!

 

[francis246]

So not really the "best" people possible, just the best within a specific demographic. You seem to be ignoring that little bit of, ahem, "rocket science."

It does seem like somebody is trying to make this a racial thing, which to my mind is a little unnecessary.

YES THATS THE POINT LOL. And it is a racial thing… Hello it’s a diversity hiring situation. It’s literally about race.

 

[al secord]

...if that's your REAL name...