Draisaitl or Bergeron

[Three On Zero]

The key phrase is adding to my team. The Canucks were already 6th in goals/ game in the regular season (3.4/ game), while they were 23rd in goals against (2.7/ game). The penalty kill was middling though at 15th (79.1%) and we don't have any RH centers, much less one who was in the high-50s to 60+% in draws. JT Miller was 3 points behind Leon in this year's scoring race. I'd readily take Bergeron to anchor the 3rd C role so Miller and Petey can get easier matchups, and I'd trust 37 to face 97 in Edmonton and contain him.

For Vancouver the difference between Pettersson and Draisaitl is likely marginal at best. Bergeron would be a game changer for the current lineup. Vancouver lacks the McDavid level talent that draws in all the attention

 

[Connor McConnor]

Bergeron overrated here

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Drai is a 110+ point player and nearly hit 130. Big difference between that and a mere 100 point player. Even if we’re generous with Bergeron and give him a 15% bump on his points (he crossed 70 just once during his final 16 years, so 80 points is more than generous).

Combine that with the fact that during a time period where Bergeron won the Selke twice and was runner up twice, Drai put up 9 points in his last 6 games against Bergeron and the Bruins (Bergeron had 4) and Drai would dismantle him.

Bergeron doesn’t generate enough offense to offset 40-50 points against a guy who would have little issue scoring with him on the ice to begin with.

I tend to agree. Like I said, the question is just 'what's the degree'. I don't think it's a total runaway for either player, even if I lean towards Drai here.

 

[McVespa99]

Bergeron has proven to play at a high level and be “the guy”, Draisaitl has not. You may lose a bit of production with Bergeron but you get one of the modern days best two way a player.

Lose "a bit" of production is an understatement. PB best year was 32 goals and 79 points. On average he is about 25 goals and 60 points per year. PB's defense doesn't come close to making up the difference. The playoffs are just as far apart or even more.
Don't get me wrong he was a fantastic player. But no Drai

 

[PettersonHughes]

Bergeron overrated here

I mean, 6x Selke winner? With a username like that I must presume that your loyalties belong to 29, but Patrice is really no slouch to have accolades like that. Scorers like Draisaitl are valuable ofc but so are guys like him who can put down the clamps.

 

[Three On Zero]

Lose "a bit" of production is an understatement. PB best year was 32 goals and 79 points. On average he is about 25 goals and 60 points per year. PB's defense doesn't come close to making up the difference. The playoffs are just as far apart or even more.
Don't get me wrong he was a fantastic player. But no Drai

And Drai is no Bergeron. Building a roster or adding a player to an existing roster, I take a defensively sound forward who can still do 70-79 points over someone who can score more but is a defensive liability when on the ice.

 

[GreatGonzo]

And Drai is no Bergeron. Building a roster or adding a player to an existing roster, I take a defensively sound forward who can still do 70-79 points over someone who can score more but is a defensive liability when on the ice.

And Bergeron is no Draisaitl

Once again, Bergeron only hit those totals 3 times through out his 19 year career, 2 of those…he wasn’t the defensive specialists that we all know.

 

[Video Nasty]

I mean, 6x Selke winner? With a username like that I must presume that your loyalties belong to 29, but Patrice is really no slouch to have accolades like that. Scorers like Draisaitl are valuable ofc but so are guys like him who can put down the clamps.

Certainly no slouch and I’ve expressed admiration for Bergeron being a finalist for his final dozen years, but it should be noted that the Selke trophy is the most reputation based trophy the NHL has.

 

[loosemoose]

People underestimate how horrible Draisaitl is defensively. Genuinely one of the worst in the league. The gap in offensive production isn't enough to overcome a terrible defensive ability going up against one of the best in hockey history.

Certainly no slouch and I’ve expressed admiration for Bergeron being a finalist for his final dozen years, but it should be noted that the Selke trophy is the most reputation based trophy the NHL has.

If Selke was less reputation based, Bergeron would've won it more often. Any kind of analytics you look, he was head and shoulders above his peers.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Draisaitl is an MVP calibre player.

 

[Three On Zero]

And Bergeron is no Draisaitl

Once again, Bergeron only hit those totals 3 times through out his 19 year career, 2 of those…he wasn’t the defensive specialists that we all know.

And Draisaitl is no Bergeron

There is a reason Bergeron is widely regarded as one of the best two way forwards to play. You need a sound defensive forward who can also help offensively? He’s the guy.

 

[NeverForget06]

For Vancouver the difference between Pettersson and Draisaitl is likely marginal at best. Bergeron would be a game changer for the current lineup. Vancouver lacks the McDavid level talent that draws in all the attention

Based on?

 

[Three On Zero]

Based on?

Based on Draisaitl going to a team that doesn’t have a McDavid to carry the workload. It’s really not that outlandish to think his production would drop in a different environment

 

[Senor Catface]

Based on?

Hopes and dreams.

 

[GreatGonzo]

And Draisaitl is no Bergeron

There is a reason Bergeron is widely regarded as one of the best two way forwards to play. You need a sound defensive forward who can also help offensively? He’s the guy.

You said that already

And there’s a reason why Draisaitl is regarded as one of the best PLAYERS in the league. Again, you are vastly overlooking the large difference in offensive production between the two.

Based on Draisaitl going to a team that doesn’t have a McDavid to carry the workload. It’s really not that outlandish to think his production would drop in a different environment

So he’s more on Drais level if we go into an imaginary land where McDavid isn’t there. So your argument is all based on an fake situation…

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Bergeron defensive two way play makes up for the gap in points, and you don’t know what kind of player you’re getting with Draisaitl away from McDavid. He could very well only be a 100pt player .

80 points + defensive play > 100-110 points + defensive liability

I feel like this is a bit unfair to draisaitl, he gets discredited for playing with Mcdavid, but Bergeron had marchand, a top 3 winger and borderline top 5 player on his wing, in fact he had the entire perfection line for his offensive peak where he was usually 3rd in production.

Bergerons peak offensive output would be the three year peak of 17-18 to 19-20 where he has 198 in 190, in that same span pastrnak and Marchand have 256 in 218 and 272 in 217 respectively. Going over a larger sample size would only increase the game between the three, so just like how I think it’s correct to not believe draisaitl would be a 120+ RS+PF player, I think it’s fair to think Bergeron would be around 60-70 RS+PF player

 

[Three On Zero]

You said that already

And there’s a reason why Draisaitl is regarded as one of the best PLAYERS in the league. Again, you are vastly overlooking the large difference in offensive production between the two.

So he’s more on Drais level if we go into an imaginary land where McDavid isn’t there. So your argument is all based on an fake situation…

The entire premise of this thread is based on a fake situation of adding a player to your team.

 

[Three On Zero]

I feel like this is a bit unfair to draisaitl, he gets discredited for playing with Mcdavid, but Bergeron had marchand, a top 3 winger and borderline top 5 player on his wing, in fact he had the entire perfection line for his offensive peak where he was usually 3rd in production.

Bergerons peak offensive output would be the three year peak of 17-18 to 19-20 where he has 198 in 190, in that same span pastrnak and Marchand have 256 in 218 and 272 in 217 respectively. Going over a larger sample size would only increase the game between the three, so just like how I think it’s correct to not believe draisaitl would be a 120+ RS+PF player, I think it’s fair to think Bergeron would be around 60-70 RS+PF player

Draisiatl is the superior offensive player, that’s not even a debate.

This thread is about adding a player in their prime to your team. I value what Bergeron can bring as a defensively sound forward more than I do the bump in offensive production you get from Draisiatl with the poor defensive tendencies.

Florida won the cup without a 100 point scorer, Vegas won the cup without a 100 point scorer.

To me what Bergeron brings is a more useful skill set

 

[GreatGonzo]

The entire premise of this thread is based on a fake situation of adding a player to your team.

The problem with your argument is you are discrediting McDavid for being there…yet you aren’t holding Bergeron to the same standards in terms of who he plays with.

You think it’s a coincidence that his best offensive seasons, he’s on a line with Pastrnak and Marchand? That he had Chara and two elite goalies a majority of his career? Why aren’t these things being used against Bergeron?

You are simply assuming Bergeron can carry a line offensively while Draisaitl can’t.

Draisiatl is the superior offensive player, that’s not even a debate.

This thread is about adding a player in their prime to your team. I value what Bergeron can bring as a defensively sound forward more than I do the bump in offensive production you get from Draisiatl with the poor defensive tendencies.

Florida won the cup without a 100 point scorer, Vegas won the cup without a 100 point scorer.

To me what Bergeron brings is a more useful skill set

Odd standards to use.

Florida had Reinhart who had 57 goals and 93 points. Tkachuk had 88 and Barkov had 80.

Sure Vegas didn’t have any “elite” offensive players, but that’s totally disregarding the playoffs. They had 4 players score 20 or more points, 4 that scored 10 or more goals, and 3 at a PPG.

 

[Three On Zero]

The problem with your argument is you are discrediting McDavid for being there…yet you aren’t holding Bergeron to the same standards in terms of who he plays with.

You think it’s a coincidence that his best offensive seasons, he’s on a line with Pastrnak and Marchand? That he had Chara and two elite goalies a majority of his career? Why aren’t these things being used against Bergeron?

You are simply assuming Bergeron can carry a line offensively while Draisaitl can’t.

Odd standards to use.

Florida had Reinhart who had 57 goals and 93 points. Tkachuk had 88 and Barkov had 80.

Sure Vegas didn’t have any “elite” offensive players, but that’s totally disregarding the playoffs. They had 4 players score 20 or more points, 4 that scored 10 or more goals, and 3 at a PPG.

You’re not taking Bergeron for his offensive prowess. You take Bergeron to be a strong two way forward who can chip in offensively.

Offensive production is far more influenced by whom you play with than defensive abilities are.

 

[ManByng]

Nobody in the league can be "the guy" when McDavid is on the same team.

Drai has the Hart, Lindsay and Ross + absolutely smokes Bergeron in offense playoffs included. His playoff PPG is double what Bergeron had, the defensive gap ain´t going to bridge that.

Well said and the dislike of Leon by some is baffling !

 

[GreatGonzo]

You’re not taking Bergeron for his offensive prowess. You take Bergeron to be a strong two way forward who can chip in offensively.

Offensive production is far more influenced by whom you play with than defensive abilities are.

Again, his best offensive seasons had him with two top level wingers. I’m not taking anything away from his ability to produce, but it has never been anywhere near the level of Drai.

Exactly, hence why not taking into account his two wingers while holding it against Drai that he plays with McDavid, makes no sense.

 

[ManByng]

He’s a good one dimensional offensive player, but he still relies heavily on McDavid to get his production. For me, if he was to be “the guy” he wouldn’t need to rely on someone else for the production he gets. I would like to see him somewhere else and how he performs.

That's pretty dense of you to say that ! The year Leon won the Hart he didn't "rely" on anyone to make him successful and Connor's point production had relied on Leon's abilities to score as well ! Ridiculous thing to say !!

 

[Three On Zero]

Again, his best offensive seasons had him with two top level wingers. I’m not taking anything away from his ability to produce, but it has never been anywhere near the level of Drai.

Exactly, hence why not taking into account his two wingers while holding it against Drai that he plays with McDavid, makes no sense.

Again, you don’t take Bergeron for is offensive abilities, you take him for his defensive abilities. Shave some points off Bergeron if you’d like, but it’s not going to change how good of a two way player he is.

 

[hamzarocks]

Bergeron was never the best player on the bruins 1st line he was never the 2nd best player on that line

He was never the bruins best C in their cup runs

He is up there most overrated hockey player ever by the way his fans talk about him.