Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part V (Lottery 04/09 8PM EST)

[GeorgeKaplan]

That’s pretty much the Isles drafting style. They don’t care about character or effort they go high skilled/consensus every time (Barzal, JHS, MDC, Iskhakov, Wahlstrom, Wilde) only pick that stands out is Reinhart

I’m half convinced they don’t do any scouting

 

[FireGerardGallant]

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I think Hughes is really good, that team in general is really good. Zegras and Boldy etc.

I just see a trend of Laine-Poolparty or Wahlstrom-Hughes. Great players get the best out of there team. Especially at a young age.

My preference is more get the guy doing the leading, not the guys who were a long for the ride.

He’s not along for the ride in any shape

 

[True Blue]

What are the odds of Byram becoming that D though?

And you can litterary apply that to every position on the team, except LW with Kravtsov. We — probably — don’t have any top centers, RWs or goalies in the system either.

The odds of Byram becoming that Dman are better than the odds of anyone in our organization getting to such a level.

We do however — de facto — have a helluva lot of more prospects at LD than any other position, and it’s not even close. Like every third prospect we have is an LD. Skjei is locked up for 5 years. Two positions to fill.

NONE of the LD prospects that we have are on a level with Byram. And let's play and say that Miller comes close. You can shut down the entire left side of the ice for basically the entire game. That is VERY tantalizing.

Who is the best scoring RW we have in the system? Ville Meskanen? Ty Ronning(?)?

Who is the elite #1 defenseman that we have in the system? Are you really ready to anoint Miller such?

It’s certainly more fair to say that if you like Byram so much that it’s reasonable to make an insane decision from a strategical POV, fine, pick him. Otherwise don’t take an LD with the only high pick we ever have had.

Wait. Did you really just say that if the Rangers drafted Byram that would be an insane decision? Just want to be sure.

That on top of everything is undersized. He might be tough in the kids POs, how tough will he be against Wilson, AO and co at 6'0 180 lbs?

You do realize that he has not even turned 18 yet, right? As such, it is not really going out on a stretch to say that a 17 year old, that is currently 6'1" & 185 lbs has plenty of room to grow.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I just want the beastmaster Bowen Byram. That’s it.

 

[MetalJaws]

Caufield has a much higher chance of sneaking into the top-10 than he does falling out of the first round.

Oh, you guys think Cole Caufield in my draft scenario. I'm sorry, Judd. Judd Caufield second round. Prob. should have specified that. He's a hard working, intense Callahan type.

 

[Ola]

Not that I don't respect people being super high on Kakko, but I do think he is getting a real big pass/alibi ranking.

Everyone are going, look at his scoring, look at goals he scored at the WJC, he is 2 no doubt. But what is his potential in the NHL? The SM Liiga is a bit suspect. The kid is quite big, and he isn't a super talent. He isn't really close to a Matthews type. Skating is OK but fram from great. He isn't really a shooter.

If you sit down and set out the upside of all kids in the top 10, where does Kakko come in? What is the highest he can score? What type of player can he become at best? I am far from convinced that he will become much better than a Mikko Koivu (at wing?). Podkolzin is more boom/bust, isn't playing at the same level as Kakko and is also not as developed as him, but doesn't he have a bit more potential? I think so. How about Turcotte? I think Turcotte has been blocked by Hughes. I think people are in for a real eye-opener when they see his play against a good Canada team (if they meet up), Sweden, Russia and co at the U18. Who will match him there? Turcotte can certainly become a top center in this league. If you go low on him its maybe Joe Pavelski type of performer, high? Very good No 1 guy. Top 10-20. I would prefer his speed. And so forth and so forth.

 

[Inferno]

Ok since I know like nothing outside of Hughes kakko and pod....whose the big time shooter in this draft class..the guy with the bomb of a shot who can beat goalies clean from anywhere from the circles in...

I feel like we need more our shooters.

 

[MetalJaws]

He’s not along for the ride in any shape

I just realized you were thinking I was talking about Cole in the 2nd round. I was talking about Judd Caufield. Should have specified, Judd is a Callahan type hard working winger. I'm fully aware Cole will go in the early teens probably. But I still stand by the whole small guy thing.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I just realized you were thinking I was talking about Cole in the 2nd round. I was talking about Judd Caufield. Should have specified, Judd is a Callahan type hard working winger. I'm fully aware Cole will go in the early teens probably. But I still stand by the whole small guy thing.

Ahhh, that makes much more sense, my fault

 

[Trxjw]

Oh, you guys think Cole Caufield in my draft scenario. I'm sorry, Judd. Judd Caufield second round. Prob. should have specified that. He's a hard working, intense Callahan type.

Yup. I definitely took the context incorrectly from the rest of your post.

 

[Trxjw]

Ok since I know like nothing outside of Hughes kakko and pod....whose the big time shooter in this draft class..the guy with the bomb of a shot who can beat goalies clean from anywhere from the circles in...

I feel like we need more our shooters.

Kaliyev, for my money, is the best shooter in the draft. He has the full arsenal of shots in his bag and can beat goalies clean from outside the circles.

Caulfield is right behind him. Boldy is no slouch either but he's more of a sneaky scorer than a guy who fires lasers from all over the ice.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

A lot of people here are very high on Cole Caufield. Guy is 5'7" in skates. 155 lbs. Playing against children this fine. Against men, different story.

I'm actually kinda hoping we move down somehow and take another top 10 pick or early teen pick. My somewhat realistic unprofessional drafting scenario goes something like this. Some crazy good wingers in this mix with pro shots already and great wheels.

1st Round
Early First (hopefully top 3)- One of Hughes, Kakko, Cozens
Mid First/Trade - One of, Krebs, Kaliyev, Dorofeyev
Late First - One of, Lavoie, Foote, Afanaseyev

2nd Round
Our 2nd - One of, Brink, Mastrosimone, Donovan
Dallas 2nd - One of, Poulin, Gutik, Djugardens
TB 2nd - Robertson, Firstov, Caufield

I think Hughes is really good, that team in general is really good. Zegras and Boldy etc.

I just see a trend of Laine-Poolparty or Wahlstrom-Hughes. Great players get the best out of there team. Especially at a young age.

My preference is more get the guy doing the leading, not the guys who were a long for the ride.

You should look closer at Caufield. He's not a passenger. Kid has a great motor and does a lot of the little things right that go unnoticed. He's an outstanding sniper and that's something our team absolutely needs.

Neither Kravtsov nor Chytil can shoot like him. Nobody in our pipeline can. We can absolutely use a pure sniper like him. The fact that he's not a soft, one dimensional forward with a lot of baggage makes him even that much more desirable. And, he's a RH shot too.

You put Zibby on that left circle on the first PP and Caufield on the 2nd unit.

 

[Ola]

NONE of the LD prospects that we have are on a level with Byram. And let's play and say that Miller comes close. You can shut down the entire left side of the ice for basically the entire game. That is VERY tantalizing.

You are stretching it a bit here. What are the odds of Byram becoming that type of D? 5%? It sounds like we would be passing on Vic Hedman II. He is OK defensively, and chippy for someone his size.

Skjei, Hajak and Miller with outside pressure from all other guys we have at LD; Rykov, Reunanen, Gilmour, Lindgren, Ragnarsson, Själlin and co, can certainly form a pretty strong left side. Hajak defensively certainly has potential to be better than Byram. Miller too. Skjei was the best ever 2 years ago and no he is the worst ever, he is somewhere in between probably. What they miss is offensive. But we have offense on the right side, TDA. Is Fox coming? Lundkivst. Pionk. Keane. And so forth.

Look if we could get like an Alex Pieterangelo type, sure, great. But Byram isn't quite at that level.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

You are stretching it a bit here. What are the odds of Byram becoming that type of D? 5%? It sounds like we would be passing on Vic Hedman II. He is OK defensively, and chippy for someone his size.

Skjei, Hajak and Miller with outside pressure from all other guys we have at LD; Rykov, Reunanen, Gilmour, Lindgren, Ragnarsson, Själlin and co, can certainly form a pretty strong left side. Hajak defensively certainly has potential to be better than Byram. Miller too. Skjei was the best ever 2 years ago and no he is the worst ever, he is somewhere in between probably. What they miss is offensive. But we have offense on the right side, TDA. Is Fox coming? Lundkivst. Pionk. Keane. And so forth.

Look if we could get like an Alex Pieterangelo type, sure, great. But Byram isn't quite at that level.

We haven't drafted a dmen like Byram since Zubov in '90 and Leetch in '86. Aside for Miller, nobody really has top-pairing potential. Miller is a lot more of a gamble to be that guy than Byram, imo.

I guess it ultimately comes down to where our scouts rank these guys. If we do get the 3rd pick, and they have Byram ahead of Cozens, then don't be surprised when they call his name despite some of the prospects we already have on our blueline.

 

[ElLeetch]

Then prepare yourself to wait for a very, very, very long time. If all your doing is hanging your hat on a top 3 pick as the sole way to win a cup, you are going to be waiting for frankly maybe forever.

First of all, you can win the Cup without a top 3 pick. Second of all, the players that will be available in the range that I stated will be (in no order) Byram, Podkolzin, Dach, Zegras, Cozens, Turcotte. Can I call them "elite" already? No chance. Just like I cannot call Hughes or Kakko elite already (PS: Brian Lawton, Alexander Daigle, Alexsey Yashin, Nial Yakapov, Dany Heatly have all called to say hi).

'can' and 'likely' are two different things.

2018	Washington Capitals - Ovechkin 1 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2017	Pittsburgh Penguins - Crosby 1 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2016	Pittsburgh Penguins - Crosby 1 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2015	Chicago Blackhawks - Kane 1 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2014	Los Angeles Kings - Doughty 2 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2013	Chicago Blackhawks - Kane 1 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2012	Los Angeles Kings - Doughty 2 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2011	Boston Bruins - Seguin 2 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2010	Chicago Blackhawks - Kane 1 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2009	Pittsburgh Penguins - Crosby 1 OA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Thats your last 10 cup winners. Every team has a least 1 player in the top 2. Almost all of them had a second player in the top 5. Boston could be up for a debate due to the contribution of seguin that rookie year, but the point stands.

This years top team has a 1 and a 2 OA on it.

This is the result of the post-lockout NHL. The old days of being able to assemble a '4 lines deep' team and grinding out a cup are over. You need gamebreaking elite talent you can put on the ice to get over the hump.

yram, Podkolzin, Dach, Zegras, Cozens, Turcotte are good players. they *may* become elite. but the odds of Hughes or Kakko becoming that are noticeably higher. Elite players dont *always* come from the top of the draft, but they are there more often than not.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Ok since I know like nothing outside of Hughes kakko and pod....whose the big time shooter in this draft class..the guy with the bomb of a shot who can beat goalies clean from anywhere from the circles in...

I feel like we need more our shooters.

kaliyev is the best pure shooter in the draft. no question.

another underrated scorer is raph lavoie. his shot is among the best in the entire draft. lots of shade thrown his way re. his supposed lax attitude on and off the ice, but his ability to score is not in question. heavy accurate release and ability to pick corners.

 

[offdacrossbar]

kids a gem.

someones going to get one heck of a true 1C prospect who skates almost as good as jack hughes and thats saying a lot.

 

[Tawnos]

We haven't drafted a dmen like Byram since Zubov in '90 and Leetch in '86. Aside for Miller, nobody really has top-pairing potential. Miller is a lot more of a gamble to be that guy than Byram, imo.

I guess it ultimately comes down to where our scouts rank these guys. If we do get the 3rd pick, and they have Byram ahead of Cozens, then don't be surprised when they call his name despite some of the prospects we already have on our blueline.

I'd be on board with Byram, because I'm not convinced about our D prospect group yet. I do think Lundkvist (as an RD) and Hajek both have top-pairing potential, in addition to Miller, but it's not a sure thing by any means for any one of them. And Hajek I see more as a #2 in the sense that it'll require him being paired with the right guy to be a top-pair guy. That's his potential, not what I'm predicting will happen.

If we do somehow end up with 2 top-pairing LD, that's a FANTASTIC thing.

 

[ElLeetch]

I’m half convinced they don’t do any scouting

didn't, for years, have a 'scouting department' that could barely be described as a Skeleton Crew?

 

[ElLeetch]

I'd be on board with Byram, because I'm not convinced about our D prospect group yet. I do think Lundkvist (as an RD) and Hajek both have top-pairing potential, in addition to Miller, but it's not a sure thing by any means for any one of them.

If we do somehow end up with 2 top-pairing LD, that's a FANTASTIC thing.

If we aren't in a position to grab one of Hughes and Kakko, i have no problems drafting Byram anywhere from 3rd to 10th (well, below that, too).

Like you, i am happy with our D stockpile in the system, a lot of guys who can be sold #2s to #4s, but i don't see that clear #1 guy in the mix. top pair, but not #1.

 

[True Blue]

You are stretching it a bit here. What are the odds of Byram becoming that type of D? 5%? It sounds like we would be passing on Vic Hedman II. He is OK defensively, and chippy for someone his size.

Not stretching it at all. The odds of Byram becoming that type of defenseman is better than the odds of any of our other defensemen becoming top pairing guys or forward prospects becoming top line players.

Skjei, Hajak and Miller with outside pressure from all other guys we have at LD; Rykov, Reunanen, Gilmour, Lindgren, Ragnarsson, Själlin and co, can certainly form a pretty strong left side. Hajak defensively certainly has potential to be better than Byram. Miller too. Skjei was the best ever 2 years ago and no he is the worst ever, he is somewhere in between probably. What they miss is offensive. But we have offense on the right side, TDA. Is Fox coming? Lundkivst. Pionk. Keane. And so forth.

Out of everyone you list, Miller has the best shot. But he still lags behind Byram. Rykov, Reunanen, Gilmour, Lindgren, Ragnarsson, Själlin??? Really? This is your comfort in passing on Byram? And you are now looking at Skej with the benefits of hindsight. Does not work that way. At the same time of the draft, Skej was never as highly regarded as Byram. Dahlin aside, Byram is the best defensive prospect in drafts that stretch two years. How many times have you seen that?

Look if we could get like an Alex Pieterangelo type, sure, great. But Byram isn't quite at that level.

No, his ultimate upside is on a higher level than that.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

kids a gem.

someones going to get one heck of a true 1C prospect who skates almost as good as jack hughes and thats saying a lot.

I don't understand why he's so low. I get he played in a lower league but guys like Cale Makar and Tyson Jost were recently high picks from lower end junior leagues. Should be in the back end of the top 10

 

[MetalJaws]

You should look closer at Caufield. He's not a passenger. Kid has a great motor and does a lot of the little things right that go unnoticed. He's an outstanding sniper and that's something our team absolutely needs.

Neither Kravtsov nor Chytil can shoot like him. Nobody in our pipeline can. We can absolutely use a pure sniper like him. The fact that he's not a soft, one dimensional forward with a lot of baggage makes him even that much more desirable. And, he's a RH shot too.

You put Zibby on that left circle on the first PP and Caufield on the 2nd unit.

I'll do more digging. Unfortunately I don't think the Rangers will move around too much this draft. I can see a top 5 pick and a late teen/early 20's pick.

I know we have a lot of armchair gm's here but I do really put a lot of faith in JG. What he does and why he does it and when he actually decides to let us know why he did it. I believe his reasons, they know more than we do. Really excited for Saturday to see where the chips fall.

Fingers crossed on a loss to CBJ and PIT while Buffalo and Detroit go the distance!

 

[True Blue]

yram, Podkolzin, Dach, Zegras, Cozens, Turcotte are good players. they *may* become elite. but the odds of Hughes or Kakko becoming that are noticeably higher. Elite players dont *always* come from the top of the draft, but they are there more often than not.

Looks like you are about to get very comfortable with what could be a lifetime of disappointment as a Rangers fan.