Speculation: Post Draft 2024 Discussion

[Ducks DVM]

Already been brought up but I too am fascinated by what Zeev selection means for Fowler. Evidently Verbeek sees the same thing we do. Does he trade Fowler and picks tonight to move back up?

I am unclear on how trading Fowler and acquiring 2 players who 100% will not be on the team this year matches Verbeek’s stated goal of “progressing towards playoff relevance”. That another 3-7 finish IMO.

 

[JAHV]

In the voting for the Norris Trophy last year (2023), four of the top five players were 6'0 or under (Karlsson, Fox, Makar, Morrissey), and eight of the top 13. Several others were at 6'1.

Sure, the Ducks could use a bigger guy on defense, but this notion that you have to be a giant to be a #1D is ridiculous. That might have once been true. It is no longer. That bigger guy can be added elsewhere if Buium is the BPA according to the Ducks.

 

[Ducks DVM]

At 18 years and almost 7 months he isn't going to grow much more vertically. Maybe another 1/4".

I grew 3” between 18-21. That’s not even remotely a statement that can be made definitively without radiographs.

 

[tomd]

Maybe? I graduated HS just about his age and was 6' 1" 178. By 21 I was playing at 6' 3.5" 220.

So the Ducks are counting on that to make this pick work? Good luck with that.

 

[Deuce22]

In the voting for the Norris Trophy last year (2023), four of the top five players were 6'0 or under (Karlsson, Fox, Makar, Morrissey), and eight of the top 13. Several others were at 6'1.

Sure, the Ducks could use a bigger guy on defense, but this notion that you have to be a giant to be a #1D is ridiculous. That might have once been true. It is no longer. That bigger guy can be added elsewhere if Buium is the BPA according to the Ducks.

Big guy doesn't have to be #1D, but needs to be somewhere in the lineup.

 

[Rooch]

I am unclear on how trading Fowler and acquiring 2 players who 100% will not be on the team this year matches Verbeek’s stated goal of “progressing towards playoff relevance”. That another 3-7 finish IMO.

Might I gently suggest that Fowler's rapid deterioration cost us goals last season and we have younger players who might have more juice.

 

[The Duck Knight]

In the voting for the Norris Trophy last year (2023), four of the top five players were 6'0 or under (Karlsson, Fox, Makar, Morrissey), and eight of the top 13. Several others were at 6'1.

Sure, the Ducks could use a bigger guy on defense, but this notion that you have to be a giant to be a #1D is ridiculous. That might have once been true. It is no longer. That bigger guy can be added elsewhere if Buium is the BPA according to the Ducks.

To be fair the Norris is nothing but points. If you look at Cup winners a lot of the D are bigger guys. That type of game does generally lead to more success in the playoffs than smaller offensive D.

 

[JAHV]

So the Ducks are counting on that to make this pick work? Good luck with that.

I think they're just counting on him to be good.

 

[tomd]

In the voting for the Norris Trophy last year (2023), four of the top five players were 6'0 or under (Karlsson, Fox, Makar, Morrissey), and eight of the top 13. Several others were at 6'1.

Sure, the Ducks could use a bigger guy on defense, but this notion that you have to be a giant to be a #1D is ridiculous. That might have once been true. It is no longer. That bigger guy can be added elsewhere if Buium is the BPA according to the Ducks.

The Norris is a regular season trophy given to the high scoring guys. If you enjoy watching regular season hockey they are fun to watch. They are not the most valuable defensemen in the playoffs though. And how many offensive D do the Ducks need? Mintyukov, Zellweger, LaCombe, Luneau...do they really need one more?

I think they're just counting on him to be good.

Oh, he'll be good but it's terrible roster building. Offensive LHD is the position that the Ducks DON'T need more of.

 

[Beckett]

The Norris is a regular season trophy given to the high scoring guys. If you enjoy watching regular season hockey they are fun to watch. They are not the most valuable defensemen in the playoffs though. And how many offensive D do the Ducks need? Mintyukov, Zellweger, LaCombe, Luneau...do they really need one more?


Oh, he'll be good but it's terrible roster building. Offensive LHD is the position that the Ducks DON'T need more of.

They won't go with that group as a core. Zeev bumps them all down a peg and Verbeek can use them as ammo

 

[Ducks]

Montreal supporter here, feel free to tell me to gtfo if you want to.

Now that Montreal has acquired pick #21, if Demidov is there at #3, how do you feel about swapping #3 for #5+#21.

Didn't read the whole thread sorry if it has been covered already.

I'd probably do it, but you forgot the part where you tell us how terrible Zegras is and that we need to trade him to your team for free.

 

[Deuce22]

The Norris is a regular season trophy given to the high scoring guys. If you enjoy watching regular season hockey they are fun to watch. They are not the most valuable defensemen in the playoffs though. And how many offensive D do the Ducks need? Mintyukov, Zellweger, LaCombe, Luneau...do they really need one more?


Oh, he'll be good but it's terrible roster building. Offensive LHD is the position that the Ducks DON'T need more of.

If Buium is clearly better than all of those guys it's a good pick. If he isn't, you're blowing a chance to upgrade elsewhere.

 

[JAHV]

To be fair the Norris is nothing but points. If you look at Cup winners a lot of the D are bigger guys. That type of game does generally lead to more success in the playoffs than smaller offensive D.

Most Cup winners have bigger guys, but many of them succeed with their #1D being a smaller guy - Colorado (Makar), Pittsburgh (Letang), Chicago (Duncan Keith), heck even Anaheim (Niedermayer).

Most of those teams had a bigger guy to complement their small guys, but the Ducks can still do that if they draft Buium. This draft pick does not preclude them from adding a bigger defenseman through some other means.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

The Norris is a regular season trophy given to the high scoring guys. If you enjoy watching regular season hockey they are fun to watch. They are not the most valuable defensemen in the playoffs though. And how many offensive D do the Ducks need? Mintyukov, Zellweger, LaCombe, Luneau...do they really need one more?


Oh, he'll be good but it's terrible roster building. Offensive LHD is the position that the Ducks DON'T need more of.

Buium is prob more of a 2way guy.... and mobility on the back end is never a bad thing.

You can trade excess LHD... not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

Much rather have a dynamic player like Buium over a guys who best trait is "hes big"

Buium just got finished winning a national championship as a leader/top player on his roster... but sure. He was pretty damn elite throughout the tournament.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Might I gently suggest that Fowler's rapid deterioration cost us goals last season and we have younger players who might have more juice.

Fowler played the 14th most TOI/G angst all players in the league. I think it’s rational to think him doing that two years running when he’s ideally a 2nd pairing defenseman was a likely reason. Every other defenseman last year had their play suffer when their minutes went over about 18-19, so…

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Fowler played the 14th most TOI/G angst all players in the league. I think it’s rational to think him doing that two years running when he’s ideally a 2nd pairing defenseman was a likely reason. Every other defenseman last year had their play suffer when their minutes went over about 18-19, so…

The nice thing is the young dmen are young and capable of learning how to play those mins... fowler is a lost cause in that sense.

 

[JAHV]

For the record, I'm fine if they draft Silayev. Or Demidov. Or Lindstrom. But this notion that Buium would be a wasted pick is silly, in my opinion. There are plenty of smaller defenders who have succeeded in the playoffs. I know he struggled this year, but the notion that Adam Fox disappears in the playoffs because he's small is absurd - in 2022 he put up 23 points in 20 games (he's got 39 points in 46 playoff games overall which is fantastic for a defender).

 

[tomd]

Buium is prob more of a 2way guy.... and mobility on the back end is never a bad thing.

You can trade excess LHD... not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

Much rather have a dynamic player like Buium over a guys who best trait is "hes big"

Buium just got finished winning a national championship as a leader/top player on his roster... but sure. He was pretty damn elite throughout the tournament.

It's an opportunity cost issue. Do you add to an already crowded field of LHD offensive D or do you try to fill talent gaps in other areas? Demidov, Lindstrom, Silayev, Sennecke, Levshunov, and even Yakemchuk/Parekh all add something to the talent pool that doesn't currently exist. And Buium is NOT clearly the BPA ahead of any of them. If the Ducks think he is then it's just another reason for me to not trust the scouts even more than I already do.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Most Cup winners have bigger guys, but many of them succeed with their #1D being a smaller guy - Colorado (Makar), Pittsburgh (Letang), Chicago (Duncan Keith), heck even Anaheim (Niedermayer).

Most of those teams had a bigger guy to complement their small guys, but the Ducks can still do that if they draft Buium. This draft pick does not preclude them from adding a bigger defenseman through some other means.

I'm actually not arguing against Buium at all, funny enough. He's one of the guys I'm perfectly fine with because there really isn't a slam dunk can't miss pick like there was last year with Carlsson/Fantilli. Just saying there are some warts with him. Picking this high the goal should be a top line franchise cornerstone though. 3 of those guys you mentioned are all time greats so it's not hard for them to overcome the size disadvantage. Can Buium be that great?

 

[Ducks DVM]

To be fair the Norris is nothing but points. If you look at Cup winners a lot of the D are bigger guys. That type of game does generally lead to more success in the playoffs than smaller offensive D.

Colorado won with the 3-4 smaller guys getting the ice time and the big guys not getting nearly as much, and not being all that good to boot. That was only 3 Cups ago.

You just need size somewhere, they don’t need to be your best players. One of the big guys for them was JMFJ for crying out loud.

 

[Ducks DVM]

The nice thing is the young dmen are young and capable of learning how to play those mins... fowler is a lost cause in that sense.

Agreed, but I prefer baby steps rather than throwing them in the deep end of the pool. I don’t think any of them belong in a top pairing this year, and I believe that rushing defensemen can ruin them.

 

[91Fedorov]

That's actually when they started removing the big physical players
Poor memory or just flat out lying?

Sorry, you are in fact lying.

The Hawks and Kings won their cups between 2010 and 2015.

When we won the cup in 2007 our average height and weight was 6' 1" and 207 lbs.

In 2009 before those teams started winning we were 6' 1" and 204 lbs.

When the Hawks won their last cup in 2015 we were 6' 2" and 211 lbs.

Try some ginkgo biloba, or get better at lying.

 

[LeBrun is a Clown]

L

Sorry, you are in fact lying.

The Hawks and Kings won their cups between 2010 and 2015.

When we won the cup in 2007 our average height and weight was 6' 1" and 207 lbs.

In 2009 before those teams started winning we were 6' 1" and 204 lbs.

When the Hawks won their last cup in 2015 we were 6' 2" and 211 lbs.

Try some ginkgo biloba, or get better at lying.

it wasn’t nessecairly the size, but rather Bob trying to acquire players to emulate Chicago after the conference finals in 15. He tried to get faster by adding guys like Pirri, Hagelin, Perron, etc

 

[The Duck Knight]

Colorado won with the 3-4 smaller guys getting the ice time and the big guys not getting nearly as much, and not being all that good to boot. That was only 3 Cups ago.

You just need size somewhere, they don’t need to be your best players. One of the big guys for them was JMFJ for crying out loud.

Makar was the only D on the Colorado cup team under 6 feet. He is physical though. And elite at everything. Girard missed almost the entire playoffs. Makar isn't at all an argument against size mattering. It's basically saying what I'm saying. In order for size not to matter you need to have a special player like a Makar or a Keith or a Fox. If the scouts think Buium can be a player like that I'm all for it.

 

[2faded]

Buium is prob more of a 2way guy.... and mobility on the back end is never a bad thing.

You can trade excess LHD... not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

Much rather have a dynamic player like Buium over a guys who best trait is "hes big"

Buium just got finished winning a national championship as a leader/top player on his roster... but sure. He was pretty damn elite throughout the tournament.

But it kind of is a big deal. You can't just hit a button and your excess LD becomes a RD or RW.

In reality, those top line players are rarely available. Drysdale for Gauthier trades rarely happen and even in that case it took him forcing PHI to trade him.

For example, let's say you have a 1LD, and the team needs a 1RD. You draft the another 1LD with the intention of trading one of the excess LD for 1RD. What if that player isn't available? Now you are trading the LD for a 2RD + a pick to make up the value. That's cool, but the team didn't need a 2RD, they needed a 1RD. You could've just drafted the 1RD.

Obviously if the talent difference is huge, you don't take a guy based on need. But if it's a toss up who is going to be better, take the guy you need. If you're building a team through the draft, at some point you have to consider team needs.