Dougie Hamilton or Mackenzie Weegar?

[SeanMoneyHands]

Who's better?

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[Mobiandi]

Dougie Hamilton? It’s not 2015 anymore

 

[Felidae]

Not really fair to Hamilton if you're comparing right now as he missed 62 games last season to injury.

But just 2 seasons ago Hamilton peaked higher than Weegar has ever had (74 points), and has been better throughout their careers. It's reflected in their Norris voting record, as well as nearly 7 straight 40 point campaigns, a few of those who missed over 25+ games.

Weegar has eclipsed the 40 point mark twice and peaked at 52 points.

 

[JaegerDice]

If healthy, it's Hamilton.

Higher peak and longer track record.

But I like Weegar too.

 

[1specter]

If we're factoring in contracts I'd rather have Weegar at this point, but Hamilton is the better player overall provided that he is not cooked from the recent injuries. It's early in the season and he missed a lot of games so I think it's fair to give him some time.

 

[Regal]

Dougie Hamilton? It’s not 2015 anymore

You mean before he had a single Norris vote?

 

[Coffee]

If we're factoring in contracts I'd rather have Weegar at this point, but Hamilton is the better player overall provided that he is not cooked from the recent injuries. It's early in the season and he missed a lot of games so I think it's fair to give him some time.

Picked Weegar but never got to see much of Hamilton since he left the Bruins to be honest

What kind of defender is Hamilton ? Game strengths and stuff

Thank you

 

[centipede2233]

Factoring contracts I’ll go weager

 

[ESH]

Picked Weegar but never got to see much of Hamilton since he left the Bruins to be honest

What kind of defender is Hamilton ? Game strengths and stuff

Thank you

Lots of people will tell you he’s not good defensively, but I think he gets an unfair reputation.

He’s been relied on to play top pairing minutes against top competition for the Flames, Hurricanes, and Devils and has been really good for all 3 of those teams.

He’s one of those big guys that isn’t all that aggressive physically, but he’s not soft and he can throw some big hits. He’s got a long reach and so it’s not easy to get by him, but he does have brain lapses sometimes.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I think Weegar is underrated considering he's a top pairing defenseman who plays huge minutes and scores 20 goals. However, Hamilton has been pretty damn good himself for a long time.

I voted Weegar but it's really close.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Hamilton is better overall. Weegar is better defensively with the better contract.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Dougie right now this second might not be better than Weegar coming off a very serious injury, but if we're looking at his play last year and the year before, I think it's clear he's a superior defenseman.

He's got a rep for being bad defensively, but the numbers just don't show it. He plays a standard workload, and doesn't give up goals at a substandard rate, while driving possession metrics very strongly. He's prone to occasionally getting caught flatfooted because he's not a particularly great skater, and I think those are things that people remember, when his normal, boring, quality defensive play gets overlooked.

At the same cost, assuming some semblance of health, I'd take Dougie every time. And I like Weegar a lot.

 

[Figgy44]

Weegar is inexplicably still improving and growing exponentially. Hamilton on the other hand has always historically been better than Weegar and his career stats show it.

But depending on his current injury/contract, Weegar could rocket past Hamilton very quickly and not look back.

The question is too vague to answer. It's either or depending on the scenario.

 

[dgibb10]

Weegar is inexplicably still improving and growing exponentially. Hamilton on the other hand has always historically been better than Weegar and his career stats show it.

But depending on his current injury/contract, Weegar could rocket past Hamilton very quickly and not look back.

The question is too vague to answer. It's either or depending on the scenario.

Is weegar improving or did he just shoot double his career % last year?

 

[Figgy44]

Is weegar improving or did he just shoot double his career % last year?

Improving. His playstyle is evolving and rounding out from his time in Florida in a good way. Last year certainly may not be the norm, but there's attributes to his game that seem like he could stay relatively closer to last year's career year totals vs going back to his previous bests.

Doubling his shooting% is a concern, sure. But when he scored 39% of his career goals (20/51) last year due to changes in the way he engages and attacks, I think it's OK to believe him to be a regular 10-15 goal dman vs going back to 4-8 goals max a season. Prior to that, he never got more than 8 goals a season.

You could historically expect around 35-45 points from him with a flawed game. 50 points from last year is sorta the outlier so far. But based on his recent seasons and evolution in play, I think he could easily continue in the 40-50 range going forward with much more varied mixtures of goals and assists from year to year.

If I'm wrong, then he's just an interesting trivia answer to players who randomly peaked at weird times. But the way he plays actually seems sustainable.

 

[dgibb10]

Improving. His playstyle is evolving and rounding out from his time in Florida in a good way. Last year certainly may not be the norm, but there's attributes to his game that seem like he could stay relatively closer to last year's career year totals vs going back to his previous bests.

Doubling his shooting% is a concern, sure. But when he scored 39% of his career goals (20/51) last year due to changes in the way he engages and attacks, I think it's OK to believe him to be a regular 10-15 goal dman vs going back to 4-8 goals max a season. Prior to that, he never got more than 8 goals a season.

You could historically expect around 35-45 points from him with a flawed game. 50 points from last year is sorta the outlier so far. But based on his recent seasons and evolution in play, I think he could easily continue in the 40-50 range going forward with much more varied mixtures of goals and assists from year to year.

If I'm wrong, then he's just an interesting trivia answer to players who randomly peaked at weird times. But the way he plays actually seems sustainable.

His individual chance generation was 10 expected goals, suggesting it didn't come from generating "better" chances.

Last year was also the first year of his career that Weegar had a sub 50% xGoals share, as well as by far the worst year of his career in terms of allowing chances against.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Weegar, especially considering their contracts.

Hamilton has been blessed partner wise in his career with Chara, Giordano, and Slavin. I didn't really dislike him the same way a lot of Bruins and Flames fans did but he is soft in front of his net and his fancies always look good mostly just because he shoots a ton. Bad shot, good shot, shot with no chance at all, Dougie will fire one in there every chance he gets. He's a good complimentary dman but I would not trust him to run his own pair and basically every NHL coach he's had has recognized the same.

 

[dgibb10]

Weegar, especially considering their contracts.

Hamilton has been blessed partner wise in his career with Chara, Giordano, and Slavin. I didn't really dislike him the same way a lot of Bruins and Flames fans did but he is soft in front of his net and his fancies always look good mostly just because he shoots a ton. Bad shot, good shot, shot with no chance at all, Dougie will fire one in there every chance he gets. He's a good complimentary dman but I would not trust him to run his own pair and basically every NHL coach he's had has recognized the same.

Weegar's partners the last 3 years have been Andersson Tanev and Ekblad lmao at trying to play the pairing card.

Meanwhile dougies partners over the same time have been Graves in 21-22 and Siegs in 22-23 and 23-24

 

[Figgy44]

His individual chance generation was 10 expected goals, suggesting it didn't come from generating "better" chances.

Last year was also the first year of his career that Weegar had a sub 50% xGoals share, as well as by far the worst year of his career in terms of allowing chances against.

It was perhaps also the worst year for uncertainty for a d corps in recent memory. The Flames shipped out half of their top dmen (Tanev, Hanifin, Zadorov). Huska is still figuring things out at the NHL level... there's some reasons for that.

Weegar has looked like he's blooming in this tumultuous scenario. I guess he's the type of person who flourishes in those scenarios vs easy ones. There were often situations where quite a few of us were noticing slightly new things and hoping he'd do it more (and he did).

All I'm saying is that I'm relying on the eye test, which I get doesn't feel reliable. But I'm also saying there's been so many differences that make it seem like these are sustainable changes and not just a lucky season.

 

[dgibb10]

It was perhaps also the worst year for uncertainty for a d corps in recent memory. The Flames shipped out half of their top dmen (Tanev, Hanifin, Zadorov). Huska is still figuring things out at the NHL level... there's some reasons for that.

Weegar has looked like he's blooming in this tumultuous scenario. I guess he's the type of person who flourishes in those scenarios vs easy ones. There were often situations where quite a few of us were noticing slightly new things and hoping he'd do it more (and he did).

All I'm saying is that I'm relying on the eye test, which I get doesn't feel reliable. But I'm also saying there's been so many differences that make it seem like these are sustainable changes and not just a lucky season.

Weegar played the majority of his minutes with Rasmus Andersson tho.

I find the eye test from fans gets fooled a LOT when it comes to guys with wild shooting %s (both low and high).

 

[Figgy44]

Weegar played the majority of his minutes with Rasmus Andersson tho.

I find the eye test from fans gets fooled a LOT when it comes to guys with wild shooting %s (both low and high).

From last season, scoring 20 is not doubling, that's 5x. From the season prior, it's still more than 2x.

And I'm not saying eye test based on points scored. We're talking in positioning and other facets to his game such as blocking and physicality.

If you've watch Weegar play and compared the different styles and compared it to the stats, then OK. I'll defer to you. But if you have not, then we are just two blind men describing an elephant and there's nothing else to say.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Weegar, especially considering their contracts.

Hamilton has been blessed partner wise in his career with Chara, Giordano, and Slavin. I didn't really dislike him the same way a lot of Bruins and Flames fans did but he is soft in front of his net and his fancies always look good mostly just because he shoots a ton. Bad shot, good shot, shot with no chance at all, Dougie will fire one in there every chance he gets. He's a good complimentary dman but I would not trust him to run his own pair and basically every NHL coach he's had has recognized the same.

I agree that Dougie’s a complimentary player in the sense that you need to have a particular kind of partner for him if you want him to thrive against top competition. But that’s not as much of a negative as it sounds at face value. I think of guys like Karlsson and Slavin (to take two extreme opposites) who are really elite players but are not do-everything types.

When the Canes had both Hamilton and Slavin, it was a case of pairing two guys who each need a particular kind of partner to maximize their skills. And they were, if not the very best pairing in the league, at least in contention for the best on any given night. How could that put them individually at a lower tier than a guy who is not widely seen as a desirable #1D at all?