No one takes that guy seriously, neither should you. He's had an axe to grind against Doughty since the Kings put away the rangers.
That is a bold statement to make from some one who has been on this site less than 6 months.
No one takes that guy seriously, neither should you. He's had an axe to grind against Doughty since the Kings put away the rangers.
That is a bold statement to make from some one who has been on this site less than 6 months.
The definitive ranking of the NHL's top 23 defencemen over three seasons - Sportsnet.ca
http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Karlsson.png
http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Doughty.png (Doughty for reference)
It's a really comprehensive study which combines analytics with things like blocks, interceptions, checks, dumps, etc. It tells us what we've known in the East for a long time - Kalrsson is elite in his own zone.
I'm not going to sit here and debate him and Doughty again but if people don't think Karlsson is good defensively, then they need to give 2013 its memes back.
That's cool that it's pretty comprehensive, but I'm skeptical that we don't have access to a ton of that data and that it relies on a lot of the same systems that the HERO charts do.
I think that's very fair. I just wanted to fill you in on the metrics since you asked what numbers.
Then it got off the rails with the usual "Karlsson is horrible is his own zone" crap but I know you're not really guilty of that.
he was for many years. hes made strides, and last year was decent, not great.I think that's very fair. I just wanted to fill you in on the metrics since you asked what numbers.
Then it got off the rails with the usual "Karlsson is horrible is his own zone" crap but I know you're not really guilty of that.
There are subjective "stats" that are recorded by employees of the home team who tend to inflate certain numbers, like blocked shots, hits, giveaways, takeaways, even shots on goals (I've seen numerous coaches state that they have their own separate team of stats guys keeping track of shots).
So make of it what you will when you look at those numbers. They aren't objective. It's left to the interpretation of whoever decides what a hit or a giveaway or a takeaway is on any given night.
Backed by over seven years of university research, our technology generates advanced hockey analytics using standard, single-camera game footage. Our proprietary computer vision system uses a combination of player tracking, and activity recognition algorithms to flag specific game events such as shots or passes, timestamp them, and record their XY coordinates on the ice. Once the raw data is collected, machine learning and pattern recognition techniques are utilized to extract meaningful insights, allowing broadcasters, teams, analysts and fans see and understand the game in a way previously not possible.
Those subjective stats are certainly varied but I don't think they're inherently awful, they just need context and to not be taken as gospel, which is the real problem.
Nevertheless I think those conglomerate rankings aren't too far off the mark, but I think even those of us who have butted heads over the year will agree that anything that says EK is better defensively than Doughty but worse in transition has to be examined since I'd argue most of us would assert the complete opposite (Doughty better defensively, EK better at transition, though both certainly underrated in those areas). And more as it relates to the thread, anything that pumps up Subban is fine by me, as he's generally underrated in my eyes.
Those numbers are indeed garbage. Nobody (I think) is referring to them. Giveaways for example are counted differently in different arenas... no consistency to them at all.There are subjective "stats" that are recorded by employees of the home team who tend to inflate certain numbers, like blocked shots, hits, giveaways, takeaways, even shots on goals (I've seen numerous coaches state that they have their own separate team of stats guys keeping track of shots).
So make of it what you will when you look at those numbers. They aren't objective. It's left to the interpretation of whoever decides what a hit or a giveaway or a takeaway is on any given night.
Would you rather have the guy who has never had a serious injury or the guy who has had injuries in 2 of the past 3 seasons that have kept him out for significant time?It's almost as if there was a correlation between missing games and a drop in pts total.
Karlsson is easily a $10+ million player. Melnyk better be ready to open his pocket book for once.
Those subjective stats are certainly varied but I don't think they're inherently awful, they just need context and to not be taken as gospel, which is the real problem.
Nevertheless I think those conglomerate rankings aren't too far off the mark, but I think even those of us who have butted heads over the year will agree that anything that says EK is better defensively than Doughty but worse in transition has to be examined since I'd argue most of us would assert the complete opposite (Doughty better defensively, EK better at transition, though both certainly underrated in those areas). And more as it relates to the thread, anything that pumps up Subban is fine by me, as he's generally underrated in my eyes.
You said he gets scored on in droves. I said he really doesn't. And then you say "well if Doughty was on the Senators!!!!"
That has nothing to do with anything.
The definitive ranking of the NHL's top 23 defencemen over three seasons - Sportsnet.ca
http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Karlsson.png
http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Doughty.png (Doughty for reference)
It's a really comprehensive study which combines analytics with things like blocks, interceptions, checks, dumps, etc. It tells us what we've known in the East for a long time - Kalrsson is elite in his own zone.
I'm not going to sit here and debate him and Doughty again but if people don't think Karlsson is good defensively, then they need to give 2013 its memes back.