Dorion's biggest mistake in 2022...

[KevinRedkey]

I think his worst move was the lack of a move. Specifically not trading for John Marino.

Marino is 25yrs old RD making 4.400 for another 4yrs after this year. He's been a great addition to the Devils according to their fans, and would have made the Sens D much deeper and better. We'd be in a payoff spot if we had gotten him IMO.

The cost was only Ty Smith (17th overall in 2018) and a 3rd round pick in 2023.
Sure something like Thomson/Brannstrom/JBD, a 2nd an maybe one lesser piece would have gotten it done. That is peanuts for what Marino brings to the table.

Now we're searching for a top 4 RD and there's virtually none available. Everyone we'd want (A.Larsson, R.Andersson, B.Carlo, etc..) are simply not available for any reasonable price, period.

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[stempniaksen]

Lack of a top-four RD seems obvious, but I still think the answer is tying his wagon to DJ.

Would have been interesting to see where the team could have been at if they didn't cut their own legs off to start the season (same as always). It's entirely possible he didn't have a choice as the team is going through and ownership change and he may have been told to lie in the bed he made, but new coaching/systems would make more of a difference than a single player (unless that guy is McDavid).

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Missing on Top 4RD like Marino (ability vs cost) vs Tying wagon to DJ vs a more experienced coach (not a break the bank coach ; say Jacques Martin/Claude Julien)
tough choice

I am going to go with the coach because I think these players will need better coaching to take another step. That change would have been an investment towards that

We do need an upgrade on D which could have been a tipping point but the coaching change could result in better team play and less repeated mistakes.

 

[bert]

I think his worst move was the lack of a move. Specifically not trading for John Marino.

Marino is 25yrs old RD making 4.400 for another 4yrs after this year. He's been a great addition to the Devils according to their fans, and would have made the Sens D much deeper and better. We'd be in a payoff spot if we had gotten him IMO.

The cost was only Ty Smith (17th overall in 2018) and a 3rd round pick in 2023.
Sure something like Thomson/Brannstrom/JBD, a 2nd an maybe one lesser piece would have gotten it done. That is peanuts for what Marino brings to the table.

Now we're searching for a top 4 RD and there's virtually none available. Everyone we'd want (A.Larsson, R.Andersson, B.Carlo, etc..) are simply not available for any reasonable price, period.

Definitely not. Ty Smith had significantly more value than any of those pieces. They wanted a cost controlled asset that has proven he could play in the league to replace Marino.

There were no shortage of big mistakes by Dorion. The biggest by far was the error on the Formenton situation and the moves that followed. Trading Connor Brown for a 2nd when you knew you werent going to have him.

Other massive mistakes were trading Gustavsson for Talbot. Not signing Paul, then flipping him for a way worse player and paying him the same.

Yes not acquiring a top 4 d man was bad but its not as easy as people may believe.

Not changing coachs after the 7 game losing streak also a big mistake.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well, there's always next year. LOL.

This is my "glass half filled" thought for the day.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Should have fired DJ in about mid November.

 

[GCK]

Lots of moves but I understand many. I can’t include the Paul trade because Melnyk wasn’t dead yet. So with that and trying not to use hindsight here is my top 3

1. Adding Debrincat. I thought at the time it was dumb and those assets should have been used to add a quality D.

2. Joseph contract. I wasn’t concerned by the player or term but I thought it was a big overpay. He hadn’t shown enough to justify 2M AAV much less 3M.

3. Not addressing D depth after our terrible start. It was clear we not only needed a top 4 D but we needed more jam on the back end. Adding a 3rd pairing D with a physical presence would have helped.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

...

There were no shortage of big mistakes by Dorion. The biggest by far was the error on the Formenton situation and the moves that followed. Trading Connor Brown for a 2nd when you knew you werent going to have him.

...

I agree that letting Brown go when they presumably knew they wouldn't have Formenton is a real head scratcher. But I also really believe the Brown trade was to free up some salary budget to allow the trade for a top 4 D man (presumably Chychrun). IE, at that time I think they still expected to do that deal sometime before or during training camp.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Should have fired the coach in the summer when all those experienced coaches were available.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I agree that letting Brown go when they presumably knew they wouldn't have Formenton is a real head scratcher. But I also really believe the Brown trade was to free up some salary budget to allow the trade for a top 4 D man (presumably Chychrun). IE, at that time I think they still expected to do that deal sometime before or during training camp.

They could have got a 2024 2nd for Brown any time there was no rush

 

[Do Make Say Think]

They could have got a 2024 2nd for Brown any time there was no rush

Probably need to free up cash to sign Timmy and Norris.

I think signing Norris to 8 years will be the mistake with the longest shadow.

 

[swiftwin]

They could have got a 2024 2nd for Brown any time there was no rush

Not if he's injured.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[aragorn]

I'm going to go with youth ... the team is still very young & still making young player mistakes that have cost them a number of games. Add to that injuries to key players has also hurt the progress. But having said that, the team is much improved from last yr. Last yr they were out of it by the end of Nov, this yr we are into Feb & they are still in it, hanging by a thread, but still in it. That's a massive improvement considering the mistakes they still make & the injuries. I don't see DJs systems that different than any other teams systems in a copy cat league & it usually comes down to execution & making less mistakes.

I'm not quite sure why people think they should be so much better than they are? Most analysts the so called experts who are suppose to know these things all expected the Sens to be a bubble team, to be close, but miss the playoffs. Isn't that exactly where we are? Why do the experts on here think they should be so much better especially given the injuries & youth? Trades are much harder to make than people think & both sides have to be satisfied with the trade for it to happen & today with NMC/NTC the player has to agree as well in a lot of cases. It's not as easy as we pretend on here. By all indications this team is trending upwards & going in the right direction, but the new owners will decide if whether they stay with this management team or not. We have seen new coaches & management not suceed in the NHL as well.

 

[SquidNasty]

1. Brown trade. He’s exactly the type of player our bottom 6 is missing. Even if he was planning on walking in the summer you still keep him, it’s like a free deadline addition. If you’re out of it at the deadline you can still flip him.

2. Norris contract. I didn’t like it at the time and like it even less now after an injury riddled season. When he was in the lineup and healthy to start the year he didn’t look anything like an 8x8 guy.

3. Paul trade. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one, most thought it was an ok trade at the time. Paul didn’t look like a 3M dollar player so it made sense to flip him instead of “overpaying”. Hindsight is 20/20 though and Paul’s breakout has been awesome. Can you imagine our team with a third line of Paul-Pinto-Brown?

4. Joseph contract. Before the trade I don’t think he was even sniffing 2M. 3M @ 4 years is a little rough, he owes millions to DJ for playing him on the top line for those 2 games against that tire fire Detroit team (7 of his 11 pts in those 2 games). I can’t lie he’s been very disappointing this year. He just doesn’t really do anything besides kill penalties.

5. Talbot trade obviously looks rough but I don’t fault him on this one. I thought it was a good move at the time and was losing faith in Gus.

6. Not firing DJ in November, though if nobody else was out there then I can understand wanting to ride out the year. Would rather DJ than Capuano.

 

[Xspyrit]

I think his worst move was the lack of a move. Specifically not trading for John Marino.

Marino is 25yrs old RD making 4.400 for another 4yrs after this year. He's been a great addition to the Devils according to their fans, and would have made the Sens D much deeper and better. We'd be in a payoff spot if we had gotten him IMO.

The cost was only Ty Smith (17th overall in 2018) and a 3rd round pick in 2023.
Sure something like Thomson/Brannstrom/JBD, a 2nd an maybe one lesser piece would have gotten it done. That is peanuts for what Marino brings to the table.

Now we're searching for a top 4 RD and there's virtually none available. Everyone we'd want (A.Larsson, R.Andersson, B.Carlo, etc..) are simply not available for any reasonable price, period.

- Hmm, I think trading Nick Paul then having to trade Brown is by far the worst move IMO. The result is probably that we have had the worst bottom-6 in the entire league this season

- Gustavsson for Talbot is also very Zibanejad-Brassard like, on a smaller scale

And while Talbot had 1 year left, trading Murray while retaining 25% and giving up picks is not super great. I think Murray is comfortably better than Talbot but that's my own goalie evaluation (which has a good track record, like calling a 20-1-2, 941 SV% goalie a "flash in the pan"). That being said, Murray is way too injury-prone and bad blood was spilt within the organization and Murray so he had to be moved. But we unfortunately added to our dead cap again to repair past mistakes

- Hamonic for a 3rd wasn't great too, not really for the price paid but more for the AAV and spot allocation. Should have went for someone better, like Marino as you said

- Adding DeBrincat is a very good move 99% of the time and the price paid was very reasonable, particularly considering the poor strength of the 2022 draft at the top but was it the right move to do? DeBrincat extension will be costly, I personally would rather spend on a less expensive but 2-way winger (the Kraken way) and improve the defense while having a great bottom-6. I know some will get their panties in a bunch, but going all in on DeBrincat while weakening the rest of the roster was short sighted.


Seriously, I would have :

- extended Nick Paul and Connor Brown
- traded for Oliver Bjorkstrand (easily beat the return the Jackets got)
- never traded for Hamonic
- traded for John Marino
- not signed Gambrell but promoted Crookshank

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Bjorkstrand - Stutzle - Giroux
Paul - Pinto - Brown
Crookshank - Kastelic - Brassard
Kelly/Watson

Chabot - Marino
Brannstrom - Zub
Sanderson - JBD
Zaitsev

Forsberg
Gustavsson

* Sanderson would get PP + PK + OT time plus would see extra time too, depending on games situation. These pairings are more for ES chemistry


All that being said, one place Dorion has done well in 2022 is signings and extensions. Giroux was one of the best Dorion moves for sure (although he was a bit lucky with Giroux being from the area). Only Gambrell signing was bad but it's a very small one so no problem

Lack of a top-four RD seems obvious, but I still think the answer is tying his wagon to DJ.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that but it seems apparent that this coaching style has been holding this team back. The preparation for seasons (we eliminate ourselves in November each year) and games looks horrendous too

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think he has managed himself out of a job this year either way because of the ownership change. He did some good things, but he has not done enough imo. Talbot trade appears to be a mistake even though the reasoning was sound. D is thin and remains untouched from camp even though they've struggled. Let the window for a coaching change as a hail mary come and go. Prized off season re-signing is heading for another shoulder surgery. Depth everywhere was an issue with Brown/Formenton's names in there as lost depth that wasn't addressed. Zaitsev's salary still on the books as a hindrance for improving next year.

 

[aragorn]

Constant crying over spilled milk, the team is better this yr than they were when some players traded away were on the team. Last yr they were out of the playoff race by the end of Nov with some of those players on the team, this yr they are still in a playoff race in Feb. The team is improved & trending in the right direction, they have been in more games than out of them, there is some parity n the NHL, the rest is just noise.

It's about improving the team, if they can acquire a top 4 RD which won't be easy & they are competing against other teams for these players, some with more assets. They could also use a #1 goalie or a good backup who can stay healthy. Every team has it's problems & deficiencies & they are trying to improve every position, but it takes a lot more time than people think unless you get real lucky with some players. Ottawa is having it's good share of luck with some players as they are blossoming right before our eyes, they just need a little more of it. They need to replace their UFAs with better younger players & continue the march forward.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Constant crying over spilled milk, the team is better this yr than they were when some players traded away were on the team. Last yr they were out of the playoff race by the end of Nov with some of those players on the team, this yr they are still in a playoff race in Feb. The team is improved & trending in the right direction, they have been in more games than out of them, there is some parity n the NHL, the rest is just noise.

It's about improving the team, if they can acquire a top 4 RD which won't be easy & they are competing against other teams for these players, some with more assets. They could also use a #1 goalie or a good backup who can stay healthy. Every team has it's problems & deficiencies & they are trying to improve every position, but it takes a lot more time than people think unless you get real lucky with some players. Ottawa is having it's good share of luck with some players as they are blossoming right before our eyes, they just need a little more of it. They need to replace their UFAs with better younger players & continue the march forward.

The team is marginally better despite having increased spending via buyouts, signings and making some big trades.

Our bottom 6 is dreadful, our D is very weak, our coaching mediocre and our young core isn't good enough to overcome all of that.

This season has been a huge let down and I didn't even expect them to make the playoffs. Another "season is over before December" is just not acceptable. Dorion has utterly failed as GM, most of the best things that happened to this team (Tkachuk, Tim, Sanderson and Giroux) he had very little do with.

The rebuild is very close to being derailed if things don't improve.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Definitely not. Ty Smith had significantly more value than any of those pieces. They wanted a cost controlled asset that has proven he could play in the league to replace Marino.

There were no shortage of big mistakes by Dorion. The biggest by far was the error on the Formenton situation and the moves that followed. Trading Connor Brown for a 2nd when you knew you werent going to have him.

Other massive mistakes were trading Gustavsson for Talbot. Not signing Paul, then flipping him for a way worse player and paying him the same.

Yes not acquiring a top 4 d man was bad but its not as easy as people may believe.

Not changing coachs after the 7 game losing streak also a big mistake.

He's been in the AHL most of the year. I don't think is value was that high.

Basically I disagree but it's just an opinion so I respect yours.

 

[aragorn]

The team is marginally better despite having increased spending via buyouts and trades and making some big trades.

This season has been a huge let down and I didn't even expect them to make the playoffs. Another "season is over before December" is just not acceptable.

Our bottom 6 is dreadful, our D is very weak, our coaching mediocre and our young core isn't good enough to overcome all of that.

Perspective I guess, as I see it if they wouldn't have made some pretty big mistakes in a number of games they may have won those & would be much further ahead. And those mistakes were made by everybody, the players, the goaltending & the coaches at times. But hockey is a game of mistakes & capitalizing when they occur, the opposition seems to always capitalize on our mistakes while our team is still learning. The season was not over in Dec nor is it over now, it's over when it's over & we're not there yet, although we are close.

I understand your disappointment, but don't let that cloud the fatc that they have a very good young core that is only going to get better & they will clear out a few more unproductive players at the end of this yr & hopefully improve & upgrade from them. If they can improve their defence over the summer that might be enough to push them a little further & as they get more mature & experienced that will improve them as well. I think the future is bright for this franchise.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Perspective I guess, as I see it if they wouldn't have made some pretty big mistakes in a number of games they may have won those & would be much further ahead. And those mistakes were made by everybody, the players, the goaltending & the coaches at times. But hockey is a game of mistakes & capitalizing when they occur, the opposition seems to always capitalize on our mistakes while our team is still learning. The season was not over in Dec nor is it over now, it's over when it's over & we're not there yet, although we are close.

I understand your disappointment, but don't let that cloud the fatc that they have a very good young core that is only going to get better & they will clear out a few more unproductive players at the end of this yr & hopefully improve & upgrade from them. If they can improve their defence over the summer that might be enough to push them a little further & as they get more mature & experienced that will improve them as well. I think the future is bright for this franchise.

I trust that the core is good but a good core isn't enough, we need good coaching and good management to supplement it.

I'm not talking about a Cup here, just be a competitive playoff team for a while, that's all I want and I think it is a reasonable expectation.

Hard to think that expectation will be met with how things are currently set-up. Thankfully new ownership is around the bend so there is hope but we can't expect a new front office to fire on all cylinders right away either.

The tear down was succesful, at least Dorion didn't manage to screw up the easy part. We've been treading water since then, something has got to give; things don't improve on their own.

 

[DrEasy]

FWIW (i.e., not much), my assessment:

- I was ok with the Paul trade, but Joseph's contract is too high. I was naively hoping we could get an asset for Paul and then sign him as a FA to bring him back.

- I was ok and even excited with bringing D-Cat, but I've been disappointed with his play.

- I was ok with signing Giroux, and am very pleasantly surprised by how well he's performed.

- I wasn't happy with the Gus for Talbot trade, especially given that we gave Forsberg a rather big contract that supposedly meant we were ok with him being our #1 goalie. I'm generally opposed to paying two goalies big contracts, as each game one of them is sitting on the bench collecting $$$ and not contributing. I would have gone with a Forsberg/Gus tandem.

- I was ok with divesting ourselves of Murray. Dude was just bad mojo, and now Talbot is doing a pretty fine Murray impression, between the injuries and the deflating goals allowed.

- I could understand the C. Brown move (though I'm disappointed by the return) if it was necessary in order to sign and pay Giroux. But if it was a move meant to make room for a top 4 D, since it didn't materialize, it looks like bad execution. Probably a move that could have been made later for a similar return.

- I was lukewarm re: the White buyout, as I thought we could just keep him and have some depth and versatility in our forward lineup. Seems that he hasn't exactly shined with Florida, so I'm happy to praise Dorion for this move.

- can't really blame the front office for losing Formenton. If anything it seems like a mistake by Formenton and his agent for not accepting to sign an arby deal when it was available, given the allegations.

- I have a hard time assessing moves that *weren't* made, such as acquiring a top 4 D like Marino, as I don't even know Marino all that much and there's no certainty as to what was the ask, how far did the negotiations go, etc. Fair to say that we could have used a better top 4D than Hamonic. Hamonic on the 3rd pairing would have been fine but a bit expensive.

The overall result is that with C. Brown, Paul, White and Formenton out and replaced by Giroux, D-Cat, Joseph, Motte and Brassard, we added some skill at the expense of some jam, while the depth (or lack thereof) remained the same. Ideally we could use both skill and jam. Greig's emergence gives me hope in that respect.

I did like the team starting the season. The injuries to Norris and Zub will forever make me wonder "what if?", given how well we played in the first 10 games.

As for DJ, I honestly don't understand hockey systems well enough to assess him properly. IMO we haven't had reliable team defense since Clouston, with Boucher being the one exception. We run around in our defense since McLean, and honestly the team's defense under DJ doesn't look as bad as the "Chris Phillips pointing at people" era. McLean and his successors were bailed out by great goaltending by Anderson and great puck movement by Karlsson. Ultimately a couple of good players (good goalie, good D, some defensively responsible forwards) can always mask whatever issues there are with whatever system, and we don't have them right now.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

One thing I'll mention wrt expectations leading in to the season -- I really thought we'd be better just because of addition by subtraction.

Getting rid of a number of deadwood players that were just clearly not NHL caliber and replacing them with harder working young guys -- eg Matt Murray, Chris Tierney, Josh Brown, Zach Sanford.

Honestly believed those guys were weighing us down just by their presence.

 

[HSF]

keeping DJ

He still has not figured out how to use DBC who should be one of the top guys on our team. Coaching change I think would help a guy like Chabot and DBC and overall team defense

 

[TonySoprano11]

His biggest mistake was not replacing DJ Smith before the start of the season.