Don't you have to fire Therrien now?

[Daniels45]

1-They have a history of playing together, sure. They dont have a history of being successful together, thats a false narrative. Patch produces WORSE with Davey in a sheltered role than he does with Plek in a two-way role. Go find my post if you want the numbers, I'm not finding it, but I can assure you its there.

2-How is AG going to get ready for that role if he's never put in that role?

1 ) They have had success together doesn't mean that another more talented center wouldn't do better. We just dont have that center yet.

2) This is his first year as center. Lets bring him up slowly but surely. Dont wanna risk burning him out in a position he was not rdy for.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Time spent by 3 players together on the ice. Each by situation. Meaning Habs top players stayed with the same linemates as much as any other team in the league.

Reading that way seems flawed.

Not sure how to word it yet but total time together doesnt factor in how it got there or how many times it was changed to get there.

 

[Habit11]

So DSP went up in his spot, and did fine. He tinkered with the fourth line to fill the first line, and he was fine there. Then the game against Columbus the first period lines are:
Patch/Plek/DSP
Eller/Chuck/Ghetto
Flash/DD/Weise
Byron/Flynn/Thomas

Then after the first period, DSP either gets hurt, or steps on Therriens dog, and the lineups become:
Patch/Davey/Weise
Eller/Chuck/Ghetto
Flash/Plek/Byron
DSP/Flynn/Thomas

The benefit of the first lineup is having Pac/Pleks go head to head vs. top opposition so no one else has to no matter if Gallagher is injured or not. Having the DD line or Galchenyuk line go against 3rd liners is where the Habs' could gain a competitive advantage more often than not, and we've seen both lines have good success this season offensively. The 2 games where the Habs put Pac/Plek back together during this miserable streak and played them the most mins 5 on 5 the Habs' beat Ottawa and lost to the Kings because Quick stole a game the Habs' probably should have won. I, like you, don't see the potential benefit of the current lines.

 

[Habit11]

I didn't say Crosby isn't better than Adams. I said over 60 minutes, you can take the most lopsided of difference between 2 players and it still doesn't make that big a difference. It's a given that over 1000+ minutes it's a different story.

Canadiens won the equivalent of 55 games last year. If Gallagher is worth 6 wins then let's go through the rest. Let's give Pacio 8, Plekanec 7, Subban 9, Price 15, Markov 7, Galchenyuk 5 and we're already over 55. I gave Gallagher the equivalent of 6 wins for the year over Byron but in reality it's less than that.

Gallagher went out, the lineup had to change.

Why did the entire lineup have to change though? If you make the argument that replacing Gallagher with Byron won't have a significant impact over 60mins, then why would the lineup have to change because Gallagher went out? If you can only attribute less than 6 wins over the year to Gallagher vs. Byron, the 20 or so games he may miss means we're talking about 1 - 2 wins attributable to him over the span of his injury. That hardly seems like justification to shuffle all the lines, especially the 1st line that continued scoring after he went down.

It seems contradictory, to me at least, to say on the one hand that Gallagher v Byron has little impact over 60mins and then on the other say that the lineup had to change because Gallagher went out.

 

[TouzY]

Anybody else feels players are dragging behind because they can't stand Therrien anymore ?
Just wondering, he's been saying nasty s*** on his players lately because he finally see's that Price was saving his job from the begining.

 

[JAVO16]

We have too. No other solution except to poop our collective pants.

 

[JLP]

Anybody else feels players are dragging behind because they can't stand Therrien anymore ?
Just wondering, he's been saying nasty s*** on his players lately because he finally see's that Price was saving his job from the begining.

If so it's remarkable it took this long for players to finally tune out Toenails Therrien. By many accounts he's a mean, dumb arse.

Go Habs Go !!!

 

[WeThreeKings]

We have too. No other solution except to poop our collective pants.

and throw our toenail clippings at bus drivers.

 

[JAVO16]

and throw our toenail clippings at bus drivers.

Will be glorious. Like that long awaited piss after said bus trip. Then on the next bus trip...

 

[Rapala]

If so it's remarkable it took this long for players to finally tune out Toenails Therrien. By many accounts he's a mean, dumb arse.

Go Habs Go !!!

You are far too charitable.

HaHaHa TNT

 

[Mathletic]

Why did the entire lineup have to change though? If you make the argument that replacing Gallagher with Byron won't have a significant impact over 60mins, then why would the lineup have to change because Gallagher went out? If you can only attribute less than 6 wins over the year to Gallagher vs. Byron, the 20 or so games he may miss means we're talking about 1 - 2 wins attributable to him over the span of his injury. That hardly seems like justification to shuffle all the lines, especially the 1st line that continued scoring after he went down.

It seems contradictory, to me at least, to say on the one hand that Gallagher v Byron has little impact over 60mins and then on the other say that the lineup had to change because Gallagher went out.

Gallagher has been out for more than 60 minutes. He's probably north of 200 minutes at this point. No matter how you slice lineups down, Therrien doesn't change his lines more than any other coach. In fact, about every coach changes their lineups at a similar rate. Burden on the proof to show that Therrien is an idiot in his line management is on you guys. I can show you all the dobber stats about line matchups and you wouldn't find a difference between the Habs lineup and other teams lineups.

 

[Nynja*]

Gallagher has been out for more than 60 minutes. He's probably north of 200 minutes at this point. No matter how you slice lineups down, Therrien doesn't change his lines more than any other coach. In fact, about every coach changes their lineups at a similar rate. Burden on the proof to show that Therrien is an idiot in his line management is on you guys. I can show you all the dobber stats about line matchups and you wouldn't find a difference between the Habs lineup and other teams lineups.

Burden of proof on us to show that MTs tinkering were godawful?
2-9-2 since MT tinkered with the lineups for no reason.

Your turn.

 

[JtotheC]

 

[Habit11]

Gallagher has been out for more than 60 minutes. He's probably north of 200 minutes at this point. No matter how you slice lineups down, Therrien doesn't change his lines more than any other coach. In fact, about every coach changes their lineups at a similar rate. Burden on the proof to show that Therrien is an idiot in his line management is on you guys. I can show you all the dobber stats about line matchups and you wouldn't find a difference between the Habs lineup and other teams lineups.

That wasn't what I asked. I'm aware that NHL coaches change their lineups like anyone else, nothing earth shattering there. You argued that the difference between the Habs' record gallagher v byron was less than 6 wins over the course of the season. You then stated that Therrien had to change the lineup because Gallagher went out. My question is, if as you stated it would have little to no impact on the win column if Byron was there instead, then why the need to change all the lines since the injury would have very little impact? Simply using your argument because you stated he had to change the lineup after the injury.

I also never stated he was an idiot for making line changes. The question is whether they have been beneficial or not? Whether the injury to Gallagher alone was reason enough to make these changes or not? Would it have been better if he had simply inserted Byron or anyone else there since it may not have made much difference according to your numbers?

Lineup changes alone do not dictate wins/losses, obviously, but we can discuss them as we wish, criticize them or agree with them. I certainly agreed with how Therrien deployed/built his lines through the first chunk of the season. Doesn't mean I think he's the worst coach in the NHL now, but it also doesn't mean that the questioning of his decisions also require any burden of proof to validate or discredit them since they aren't the entire picture. If we do wish to compare the record prior to the changes, that certainly favours returning to those combinations... but they could go 10 straight games with the earlier lines starting tonight and lose all 10... we have no crystal ball.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Anybody else feels players are dragging behind because they can't stand Therrien anymore ?
Just wondering, he's been saying nasty s*** on his players lately because he finally see's that Price was saving his job from the begining.

I feel our board is bipolar.

When MT fluffs the teams confidence by saying they played well he's saying nasty ****?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Disagree. Our goalies have been decent. Maybe a couple of games where they've been terrible, but overall they've been decent. We can't buy a goal, that's the problem. Don't worry about winning yet, worry about starting to score.

I'm sorry but goalies haven't been decent. I think .900 is like an unofficial cutoff for decent.

Of course, that isn't our only problem. Blaming them alone would be crazy not to mention condon is a backup and a rookie no less. Is what it is.

 

[Kriss E]

Problem is we need better than decent when your team is going through a scoring slump. We need them to steal some games on occasion which they haven't shown to be capable of doing in this last stretch.

That's such an unreasonable demand for a young rookie. He shouldn't steal us a game, he should keep the team in it and he's done it for the most part. It's the guys in front that are failing, not the goalies.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

He should have bought the ''coaching for dummies'' edition instead.

 

[rockjngo]

I think Therrien is done.

 

[Lozela]

Probably after the winter series

 

[Wats]

The team doesn't even look close to winning again. At some point Bergevin has to decide between saving the season or coming out and saying this was another transition year due to Price's injury.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Can't wait to add MT quotes from tonight in here.

 

[mariolemieux66]

He needs to go.

 

[jwrocks1]

how does DD and Plekanec play more time than Galchenyuk on a consistent basis? And they are playing terrible hockey.

I have defended MT in the past but his consistent fall back is to ride those two no matter what at the detriment to players that are doing well. And I like Weise....but why is he on the PP?

MT's days are coming close.....there will be a shakeup trade 1st though

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

"Goalie lost us the game"

-MT-