Friedman: Don't be surprised if the Marner situation plays out over the season

[belair]

You'd think with a stable full of star forwards that Toronto would be able to score come crunch time. Obviously some part of the equation is out of whack. I'm leaning towards the "isn't some secondary scorer" part factoring in for at least one of them.

I'm assuming the thought process is that Tavares may be the one who leaves some money on the table with his next contract.

I don't like it for Toronto either way. Paying $10m+ for two RWers is just as destructive as doing the same for your top two centers. Guys that get paid that much should be catalysts that don't require paying time with other $10m+ forwards.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Correct. Everyone getting NMCs needs to end if you want to be able to build a proper team. All this "he got this so I want it too!!" is how the Leafs got to where they

Problem is Marner can just walk and we get nothing for him. Marner holds the cards now.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Not that simple if Mitch won't waive his NMC, resign this summer or during the season. It might not matter what the Leafs want cause Marner holds the cards unless the Leafs decide to play hardball and tell him you won't play with Auston or Willy this season. That would hurt his production and in turn hurt his negotiating power next offseason. He would also lose the eighth year of any contract and we all know the Marner camp doesn't like losing any money....

If MM is sidelined, he's still going to get crazy money as a UFA. That accomplishes nothing for the Leafs, except to tarnish their reputation with player agents.

 

[norrisnick]

Problem is Marner can just walk and we get nothing for him. Marner holds the cards now.

Which is why a new contract shouldn't have any clauses in it. Get the cards back in the team's hands. If he doesn't sign, he doesn't sign.

But this situation is exactly why you shouldn't just make the same mistake with the next contract.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Narrative went from less than 5% chance he’ll be back, to he’ll play the year out, and now that he’s likely to be re-signed. Sounds like they kicked the tires with a few teams and were underwhelmed by the prospective return.

, I mean the less than 5% chance came from Frank Seravalli who is arguably the least credible insider out there, I never believed that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Problem is Marner can just walk and we get nothing for him. Marner holds the cards now.

That's not a problem though, I'd rather that, then trade him for scraps

 

[JianYang]

Okay thanks Elliott for your latest impression of darren dreger

 

[General Fanager]

Which is why a new contract shouldn't have any clauses in it. Get the cards back in the team's hands. If he doesn't sign, he doesn't sign.

But this situation is exactly why you shouldn't just make the same mistake with the next contract.

We all get the "shouldn't" narrative but in 2024 and a guy of that level, He gets the full NMC or a really good NTC at the very least...Its just the way the league works now.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

Posted this in the Marner trade value thread

It is sort of irrelevant really, he's re-signing in Toronto for $11.5m-$12m per year

When the dust settled there were / are three options.

1. Trade him for a weak return if he is willing to move. If he said he'd only go to 1 team, the return would be poor. Even if there were 10 teams he'd be willing to move to, some won't have the cap space, some won't have him as their biggest need and some won't have the assets the Leafs want.

2. Let him walk. This would be a complete failure of asset management from Shanahan and the Treliving. It would be unacceptable for any major business to lose a significant asset for no return and commercially makes no sense.

3. Re-sign him. The time to trade him was last summer and at that point the decision was already made (in my view) to keep Marner. Re-signing him is the only logical answer if you remove the emotions from it. A sensible approach would be an extension with a M-NTC for say the first 2 years to give both the team and the player options to change if they so wish.

They'll play some of the season, watch Marner get a ppg and when the fans have a bit of hope (it is inevitable), they'll re-sign Marner.

 

[Kimota]

Leafs are damn pathetic. At this point even guys like me who used to hate them want them to improve and have the guts to change their culture. But they are spinless. Do Something!

 

[HawksDub89]

Extending him is the best option in terms of value.

He isn’t getting traded for anything significant. Might as well extend him.

Leafs need to figure out how to get rid of Tavares cap hit.

 

[General Fanager]

Extending him is the best option in terms of value.

He isn’t getting traded for anything significant. Might as well extend him.

Leafs need to figure out how to get rid of Tavares cap hit.

Cant. Full NMC. Maybe I am wrong but I doubt he waives. He only has 1 year left though.

If it were me, Id resign Marner and get a big UFA dman and a goalie with the cap space this year and then go to work next year with even more cap space.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Extending him is the best option in terms of value.

He isn’t getting traded for anything significant. Might as well extend him.

Leafs need to figure out how to get rid of Tavares cap hit.

No it isn't. 8 years and can not get it done in the playoffs. Time to try something else. It's addition by subtraction at this point. Both JT and Marner need to go. Marner ain't worth 12M. You don't need 3 players making that much.

 

[General Fanager]

No it isn't. 8 years and can not get it done in the playoffs. Time to try something else. It's addition by subtraction at this point. Both JT and Marner need to go. Marner ain't worth 12M. You don't need 3 players making that much.

The same can be said for all of the big 5 guys.. Why is Marner the one on the outs?

 

[Suntouchable13]

The same can be said for all of the big 5 guys.. Why is Marner the one on the outs?

Because his contract is the one that is expiring. He is also still very weak and soft. His game just doesn’t translate to the playoffs. He is not worth 12M. If he is willing to take less than 10M, then ok, but he is not.

 

[General Fanager]

Because his contract is the one that is expiring. He is also still very weak and soft. His game just doesn’t translate to the playoffs. He is not worth 12M. If he is willing to take less than 10M, then ok, but he is not.

Apparently none of the top 5 do...

Anyways unless its a crazy ask I still think they need to resign him. They have cap room this year to upgrade the defense and get a goalie. They can tinker even more when JT's deal expires next summer.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Apparently none of the top 5 do...

Anyways unless its a crazy ask I still think they need to resign him. They have cap room this year to upgrade the defense and get a goalie. They can tinker even more when JT's deal expires next summer.

No, I am 100% against it. I don’t want him in Toronto anymore. Like I said, you don’t need 3 soft players making that much of your cap. 8 year of sample size of these guys not getting it done, and people want to re-sign him to a ludicrous extension over 12M a year? 3 guys making 37M combined of your cap that won 1 series total in the playoffs? Sorry, but they will lose me as a fan. I can’t take it anymore. There are other things to enjoy in this world. Can not stomach Marner re-signing for an absurd contract. Willy’s was bad enough.

 

[General Fanager]

No, I am 100% against it. I don’t want him in Toronto anymore. Like I said, you don’t need 3 soft players making that much of your cap. 8 year of sample size of these guys not getting it done, and people want to re-sign him to a ludicrous extension over 12M a year? 3 guys making 37M combined of your cap that won 1 series total in the playoffs? Sorry, but they will lose me as a fan. I can’t take it anymore. There are other things to enjoy in this world. Can not stomach Marner re-signing for an absurd contract. Willy’s was bad enough.

With the cap going up and bad contracts off the books Marner at 11-11.5 isnt so bad. 100 point guys do not grow on trees and you wont get anywhere near fair value for him in a trade and Zero if he walks next summer..

seems to me they have little choice.....

 

[stats1]

It’s amazing how narratives of different teams can be. In Carolina they are very hardcore on who gets a “franchise” contract. No one bats an eye if they let a free agent go. But GOD forbid the Leafs let go of Marner because they don’t want to give in to everything on a deal. I’d rather use the cap space then take a shitty trade

Leafs grass need to grow a pair. We’re in this cap mess with no balance because our management gives in to every ask and demand

 

[Dog]

They should trade him and just move on!

 

[Dr Pepper]

That's not a problem though, I'd rather that, then trade him for scraps

I don't understand this mindset.

You have an asset in Marner that still holds at least SOME value.

Couple years ago Dubas was stubborn and refused to trade Hyman's rights, choosing instead to let him walk and the Leafs got nothing in return.

Why would you let that happen again? Even a relatively low return is still better than no return.

Also I realize it's entirely up to Marner whether he even WANTS to leave, thanks again to Dubas.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I don't understand this mindset.

You have an asset in Marner that still holds at least SOME value.

Couple years ago Dubas was stubborn and refused to trade Hyman's rights, choosing instead to let him walk and the Leafs got nothing in return.

Why would you let that happen again? Even a relatively low return is still better than no return.

Also I realize it's entirely up to Marner whether he even WANTS to leave, thanks again to Dubas.

Because I'm not interested in moving Marner just to move him, as I said if I'm going to move a 90+ point player, I want players back, I'm not interested in a couple 1st round picks and a couple prospects that you HOPE turn into somebody as good or better than Marner, but realistically probably won't because any team he's going to waive for isn't going to have a high caliber 1sts rounder.

I'm not interested in magic beans, I want good players back if i'm moving a legitimate star.

 

[HawksDub89]

Because I'm not interested in moving Marner just to move him, as I said if I'm going to move a 90+ point player, I want players back, I'm not interested in a couple 1st round picks and a couple prospects that you HOPE turn into somebody as good or better than Marner, but realistically probably won't because any team he's going to waive for isn't going to have a high caliber 1sts rounder.

I'm not interested in magic beans, I want good players back if i'm moving a legitimate star.

I don’t think Marner would even get the return that you’re not interested in lol.

Two 1s and two prospects? Zero chance.

So yes, I’d keep him.

 

[Sniper99]

Extending him is the best option in terms of value.

He isn’t getting traded for anything significant. Might as well extend him.

Leafs need to figure out how to get rid of Tavares cap hit.

they can figure it out all they want, hes not waiving.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Because I'm not interested in moving Marner just to move him, as I said if I'm going to move a 90+ point player, I want players back, I'm not interested in a couple 1st round picks and a couple prospects that you HOPE turn into somebody as good or better than Marner, but realistically probably won't because any team he's going to waive for isn't going to have a high caliber 1sts rounder.

I'm not interested in magic beans, I want good players back if i'm moving a legitimate star.

For you, is it acceptable to re-sign Marner for a 8 x 11.5M contract after this season? Are you ok with bringing him back?