Management Don Sweeney V

[DKH]

That's an awesome strawman argument Dan since I'm not arguing finishing last. But hey it's easier to fight windmills that aren't there than to admit that your hero has made the team worse every year he's been on the job.

Congrats.

And boy it is totally a good thing we didn't get Vesey since we have 8 LWs better and our goal scoring isn't a problem at all.

I know your not - I AM

I'm up for a tank job

Time to load up

I'm done with 86-96 points

I want 7 or lower this year

Take a step or two back

Side note going with Jess to Bruins game tonight so he's going to help me with SIM stuff since I'm not bright enough to figure it out

 

[Dr Quincy]

I'm fine with trading Dougie (who I didn't like all that much like when he was here) and "ok" with the return. But the truth is that they would have been a better team with him on it last year and this, so if they were going to trade him and be worse for 2-3 (or 4 or 5) years while waiting for those assets to be ready, then they should have also dealt Chara as well.

That's the problem with this front office. They want to dump young NHL players for picks while holding onto or signing older players who won't be here (or be good) when those young players are ready.

Trading Dougie for picks while signing Backes and hanging onto Chara's corpse doesn't seem like a coherent strategy.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Side note going with Jess to Bruins game tonight so he's going to help me with SIM stuff since I'm not bright enough to figure it out

I'll believe it when I see it. : )

But no show owners means more Cup finals for me!

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Great find. We never know the whole story before commenting,ever.

And still don't.

Burke is quoted here as saying "about 12 teams". Since he's trying to build up Hamilton in this piece, "about 12" could very well be 3.

 

[DKH]

I'll believe it when I see it. : )

But no show owners means more Cup finals for me!

I was actually going over his house this morning to go over this stuff but we are going to game so we will discuss during Leafs romp

 

[Oates2Neely]

And still don't.

Burke is quoted here as saying "about 12 teams". Since he's trying to build up Hamilton in this piece, "about 12" could very well be 3.

Agreed, Burke has always been a blowhard

 

[BNHL]

And still don't.

Burke is quoted here as saying "about 12 teams". Since he's trying to build up Hamilton in this piece, "about 12" could very well be 3.

Deleted

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

They have more talent than Arizona, COL and NJ. Yet when behind by 1 they give up goals at a higher rate than they do when tied or ahead. When behind by 1 they score goals at a lower rate than they do when ahead. Now there's all sorts of reasons why that may be happening, and it may have nothing to do with fight and effort level. It may be coaching. It may be lack of talent. But that they are the 2nd worst team in the league when behind a goal says SOMETHING, and whatever it is, it isn't good.

In their last 4 games, the B's trailed in all of them. They won 3 and in the other came back from 2 goals down. So maybe they are getting better in that category.

On the flip side, aren't they one of the best teams when leading going into the 3rd period?

 

[LouJersey]

Because we are on a secret HF texting chat group I know you know more about this. I think if the truth was out there 80 % would flip on Dougie and the other 20 % wouldn't change no matter what

I will say one supposed offer I thought was better than what he got draft day 2015 but it looks like in hindsight the deal could be a heck of a yield

Time will tell

Love the incorrect overeating though very enjoyable

Agreed I would have taken that deal too.

 

[LouJersey]

I'll believe it when I see it. : )

But no show owners means more Cup finals for me!

Can you please figure out why I can't ever beat Niagara? I'm at a loss.

 

[LouJersey]

I'm fine with trading Dougie (who I didn't like all that much like when he was here) and "ok" with the return. But the truth is that they would have been a better team with him on it last year and this, so if they were going to trade him and be worse for 2-3 (or 4 or 5) years while waiting for those assets to be ready, then they should have also dealt Chara as well.

That's the problem with this front office. They want to dump young NHL players for picks while holding onto or signing older players who won't be here (or be good) when those young players are ready.

Trading Dougie for picks while signing Backes and hanging onto Chara's corpse doesn't seem like a coherent strategy.

I definitely understand this line of thinking. I'm not saying I agree but I totally get it. I'm not even saying I disagree, but I can see where they are trying to do two things at once. Two directions at the same time.

The plan to me is this. Especially with the way Neely always has talked about having entry level deals on the roster playing.

Your money guys

Bergeron, Marchand, Pasta, Krejci, Backes, Rask, Krug and a yet to be determined top pair defenseman.

Chara, Spooner, Beleskey, Hayes, and the rest are place holders.

Carlo, McAvoy, Chiller, Vatrano all guys penciled in for 17-18. JFK maybe even penciled in.

Rest of the kids battle each other in Providence and make up the bottom half of the pro roster. Reminds me of Tampa when they had Tyler Johnson, Palat and Killorn coming up.

The Bruins to me will make a deal for a defenseman or sign one this summer. I have no doubt.

While I think Sweeney misread the backup goalie situation in trusting in Khudobin, I can't fault him for Bergeron, Beleskey, Spooner, and Hayes really coming up with poor offensive games thus far. His entire third line fell off the face of the earth. Vatrano's injury hurt.

 

[Sharp Shooting Neely]

Condon alone would have changed our season.

And fwiw, I'm of the opinion that this team doesn't need earth shattering moves, just a change to the mix. Even looking ahead to the deadline. I don't think they have to add a Landeskog, but they do have to find a 3C that can make that line productive and dependable. They need a backup goalie. And they have excess NHL pieces to deal so they don't just have to work with "sellers." A Kevan Miller or McQuaid should be more than enough to get you one of those pieces from a team that's deep in net or at C.

In any other season the deals might be there to be made. This season to date has been an exception with little to no impact moves. Anxious to see if that trend holds through the trade deadline. It may well be a signal of a trend developing for future seasons with moves becoming less and less likely during the season and more activity occurring in the off season.

Condon was claimed as dept by the Pens after Montreal waived him. The Sens were in a tough spot with Anderson and found lightening in a bottle when they got him from the Pens. Would suggest many would not have predicted his success. Very similar to Budji's success with the Kings when Quick when down. Not many would have predicted that happening as he toiled in the minors largely forgotten as an NHL option.

 

[Oates2Neely]

I definitely understand this line of thinking. I'm not saying I agree but I totally get it. I'm not even saying I disagree, but I can see where they are trying to do two things at once. Two directions at the same time.

The plan to me is this. Especially with the way Neely always has talked about having entry level deals on the roster playing.

Your money guys

Bergeron, Marchand, Pasta, Krejci, Backes, Rask, Krug and a yet to be determined top pair defenseman.

Chara, Spooner, Beleskey, Hayes, and the rest are place holders.

Carlo, McAvoy, Chiller, Vatrano all guys penciled in for 17-18. JFK maybe even penciled in.

Rest of the kids battle each other in Providence and make up the bottom half of the pro roster. Reminds me of Tampa when they had Tyler Johnson, Palat and Killorn coming up.

The Bruins to me will make a deal for a defenseman or sign one this summer. I have no doubt.

While I think Sweeney misread the backup goalie situation in trusting in Khudobin, I can't fault him for Bergeron, Beleskey, Spooner, and Hayes really coming up with poor offensive games thus far. His entire third line fell off the face of the earth. Vatrano's injury hurt.

I hope the plan works as they're hoping. We had the same need for a top pairing dman this past off season and nothing was done about it. I'm just not so sure how we can feel confident it will happen this off season. And I'm hoping Shattenkirk isn't that guy

 

[LSCII]

The plan, for better or worse, is to go the prospects and picks route to improve this roster. I just thank the stars that the coach they have is so adept at integrating young, offensive minded players with skill and speed. Otherwise this team would be screwed...

 

[LouJersey]

I hope the plan works as they're hoping. We had the same need for a top pairing dman this past off season and nothing was done about it. I'm just not so sure how we can feel confident it will happen this off season. And I'm hoping Shattenkirk isn't that guy

I think it's easy to forget that the Bruins were in full win now mode for a long time which helped put them in this mediocre position. Sweeney is trying his best to serve two masters right now.

I think I read Chia dealt like 25 draft picks in his time here. He did get some back however.

 

[Oates2Neely]

I think it's easy to forget that the Bruins were in full win now mode for a long time which helped put them in this mediocre position. Sweeney is trying his best to serve two masters right now.

I think I read Chia dealt like 25 draft picks in his time here. He did get some back however.

I understand his plight. The core is there, the cupboards are fully stocked, the holes are obvious. Sweeney has done a great job at acquiring draft picks, time to use these assets to fill in the voids. Top-4 dman, scoring winger.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I think it's easy to forget that the Bruins were in full win now mode for a long time which helped put them in this mediocre position. Sweeney is trying his best to serve two masters right now.

I think I read Chia dealt like 25 draft picks in his time here. He did get some back however.

Eh there's more to the story than that. The Kessel deal netted them extra picks high in rounds, so yeah they were then able to trade their late 1sts or 2nds. I don't think that was in anyway "full win" mode.

They dealt Boychuk for picks (and then traded those away for Connolly but still that was trading older "win now" player for younger player).

It's really the Seguin decision that screwed this team. They gave up too early on a kid with that much talent. They took a guy who was #2 overall and 6 years after that all they had to show for it was Jimmy Hayes.

 

[PlayMakers]

In any other season the deals might be there to be made. This season to date has been an exception with little to no impact moves. Anxious to see if that trend holds through the trade deadline. It may well be a signal of a trend developing for future seasons with moves becoming less and less likely during the season and more activity occurring in the off season.

Condon was claimed as dept by the Pens after Montreal waived him. The Sens were in a tough spot with Anderson and found lightening in a bottle when they got him from the Pens. Would suggest many would not have predicted his success. Very similar to Budji's success with the Kings when Quick when down. Not many would have predicted that happening as he toiled in the minors largely forgotten as an NHL option.

Agreed, but in order to catch lightning in a bottle you have to put yourself out there, grab a bottle and take a chance. That's my point. Not that X worked out great for Y. It's that they tried something, and we didn't.

The Bruins had a stretch with Dobby injured and Rask tweaking his hammy. LA, ANA, OTT were all in similar situations, and they all grabbed backups. Sweeney did nothing. He's done nothing all year to help. Why?

 

[22Brad Park]

Eh there's more to the story than that. The Kessel deal netted them extra picks high in rounds, so yeah they were then able to trade their late 1sts or 2nds. I don't think that was in anyway "full win" mode.

They dealt Boychuk for picks (and then traded those away for Connolly but still that was trading older "win now" player for younger player).

It's really the Seguin decision that screwed this team. They gave up too early on a kid with that much talent. They took a guy who was #2 overall and 6 years after that all they had to show for it was Jimmy Hayes.

Morrow

 

[Coach Parker]

Agreed, but in order to catch lightning in a bottle you have to put yourself out there, grab a bottle and take a chance. That's my point. Not that X worked out great for Y. It's that they tried something, and we didn't.

The Bruins had a stretch with Dobby injured and Rask tweaking his hammy. LA, ANA, OTT were all in similar situations, and they all grabbed backups. Sweeney did nothing. He's done nothing all year to help. Why?

The argument that I have heard and now choose to believe is that Sweeney has gone HF on his prospects; he has fallen in love with his prospects and their perceived ceilings that any trade involving them is 'too much' in his eyes.

Until that is proven otherwise, it makes sense given his history of trades, drafts, development and lack of addressing current holes in the team he ices each and every night in the NHL.

 

[BruinDust]

Agreed, but in order to catch lightning in a bottle you have to put yourself out there, grab a bottle and take a chance. That's my point. Not that X worked out great for Y. It's that they tried something, and we didn't.

The Bruins had a stretch with Dobby injured and Rask tweaking his hammy. LA, ANA, OTT were all in similar situations, and they all grabbed backups. Sweeney did nothing. He's done nothing all year to help. Why?

I think that is the frustrating part. Most aren't expecting him to make some sort of miraculous huge deal to bring in a big time impact player, it would be nice but I don't expect it, especially not in this trade climate.

But the warning signs that Khudobin wasn't up to snuff were there pretty early. Not only has he not addressed the problem, he's had plenty of evidence that something needed to be done. It's a back-up goaltender. It shouldn't be that hard to get one. McElhinney went on waivers, and has been good for Toronto. How about instead of CBJ losing him for nothing, toss them a 7th round pick before he ends up on waivers and essentially move to the head of the line. Not difficult stuff if your in tune with what your fellow GMs are doing.

Make a "your problem for our problem" deal. Take a chance on someone. That's how the good GMs do it. Hayes for Colbourne, Spooner for Strome, that sort of thing. It's not that easy but it's not impossible. Now folks say "well they don't need more 3rd/4th liners" but guess what, they do, because the ones they have now aren't getting the job done. It's that simple. So move out a guy who isn't getting the job done for the Bruins for someone who isn't getting the job done for another team, and maybe you'll get a guy where a different environment might turn things around for the player.

Fact is, we have a team that has struggled the past 12 months. And a GM who hasn't made one single trade since last year's deadline. Which would be fine if the Bruins were rolling and nothing was really needed, but the fact that we have a struggling team and a GM who can't even make an elementary small deal says wonders about the quality of this front office.

 

[Sharp Shooting Neely]

Agreed, but in order to catch lightning in a bottle you have to put yourself out there, grab a bottle and take a chance. That's my point. Not that X worked out great for Y. It's that they tried something, and we didn't.

The Bruins had a stretch with Dobby injured and Rask tweaking his hammy. LA, ANA, OTT were all in similar situations, and they all grabbed backups. Sweeney did nothing. He's done nothing all year to help. Why?

Not sure the comment of they all grabbed goalies is accurate.

LA had Budji in the minors and promoted him.

Leafs acquired McIlhenny on waivers by claiming him before he would have reached the Bruins in the waiver order.

The Leafs traded Enroth, who had been struggling mightily as their BU, to the Ducks and they sent him to the minors where he remains.

Ottawa got Condon from the Pens in a trade for a 5th. Have no idea if the Bruins asked for him, if the Pens preferred to deal with the Sens or if any other factors may have been in play.

Otherwise, not aware of any other teams who made moves on backups this season. The back up position has become a bargin basement addition on the majority of teams as a result of paying core players high. The lions share of money is invested in starters and not back ups. BU's that were signed during the off season were largely seen as expansion protection of the younger preferred keepers teams have in their system. That also contributes to an unwillingness to move one now and risk exposing a younger player.

 

[LouJersey]

Eh there's more to the story than that. The Kessel deal netted them extra picks high in rounds, so yeah they were then able to trade their late 1sts or 2nds. I don't think that was in anyway "full win" mode.

They dealt Boychuk for picks (and then traded those away for Connolly but still that was trading older "win now" player for younger player).

It's really the Seguin decision that screwed this team. They gave up too early on a kid with that much talent. They took a guy who was #2 overall and 6 years after that all they had to show for it was Jimmy Hayes.

Seguin was the last of the win now blunders. It was the definition of win now. They also signed Iginla to take the place of Horton and gave him all those easy incentives that was the reason they dealt Boychuk. That was the definition of cap hell.

Trading Pasta in the summer for a defenseman was a win now move many were in favor of. Trading Carlo for a more established forward is a win now move. Sweeney had resisted these (if they are even out there).

There will come a time soon Sweeney will do a "Horton" trade I would imagine, especially if he keeps his first round pick this year.

 

[LouJersey]

The argument that I have heard and now choose to believe is that Sweeney has gone HF on his prospects; he has fallen in love with his prospects and their perceived ceilings that any trade involving them is 'too much' in his eyes.

Until that is proven otherwise, it makes sense given his history of trades, drafts, development and lack of addressing current holes in the team he ices each and every night in the NHL.

It will only be proven otherwise when you see deals like that being made. There haven't been any nor will there be until the summer IMO.

Sweeney was also not wanting to trade Seguin remember? Do you guys really want to deal a Carlo for say a 27 year old winger or defenseman a year or two away from UFA?

He seems to have a plan and yeah it's painful to be an 8-12 seed right now but you turn that around quicker with building a solid foundation than trading building blocks for quick fixes. The team is still at the point where you're only robbing Peter to pay Paul right now.

 

[LouJersey]

I think that is the frustrating part. Most aren't expecting him to make some sort of miraculous huge deal to bring in a big time impact player, it would be nice but I don't expect it, especially not in this trade climate.

But the warning signs that Khudobin wasn't up to snuff were there pretty early. Not only has he not addressed the problem, he's had plenty of evidence that something needed to be done. It's a back-up goaltender. It shouldn't be that hard to get one. McElhinney went on waivers, and has been good for Toronto. How about instead of CBJ losing him for nothing, toss them a 7th round pick before he ends up on waivers and essentially move to the head of the line. Not difficult stuff if your in tune with what your fellow GMs are doing.

Make a "your problem for our problem" deal. Take a chance on someone. That's how the good GMs do it. Hayes for Colbourne, Spooner for Strome, that sort of thing. It's not that easy but it's not impossible. Now folks say "well they don't need more 3rd/4th liners" but guess what, they do, because the ones they have now aren't getting the job done. It's that simple. So move out a guy who isn't getting the job done for the Bruins for someone who isn't getting the job done for another team, and maybe you'll get a guy where a different environment might turn things around for the player.

Fact is, we have a team that has struggled the past 12 months. And a GM who hasn't made one single trade since last year's deadline. Which would be fine if the Bruins were rolling and nothing was really needed, but the fact that we have a struggling team and a GM who can't even make an elementary small deal says wonders about the quality of this front office.

This is a fair post and does seem to raise some simple answers for some questions.

I would think Hayes just doesn't have any value to anyone. He's in his fourth organization already. Plus I think Colorado or anyone else isn't going to take a winger back for center in these types of deals.

Can't see Spooner having the value of a Ryan Strome either right now.

McElhinney could have been just a waive by the GM without gauging any interest. I often wonder why guys don't get 7th round picks for waiver guys but I guess the other GMs just collectively think they can either snag him or he's not worth it. I wanted the Bruins to grab Puempel and would have given a 7th. Noesen as well recently.