Post-Game Talk: Dog

[80shockeywasbuns]

So you want more “actual hockey talk” yet the extent of your analysis is “the team has to play a full 60 minutes” Thats not analysis or even an observation at all, that’s just the most basic meaningless hockey cliche in the book. You say that phrase has nothing to do with the actual effort/compete level of the players so then what is it referring to??

Also I still don’t understand what hockey experts you’re referencing. That’s a link to a Blueseatblogs article written by some dude named “Dave”

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Your circular logic confuses me again. How can I point out times when the Rangers were playing well and yet were being outplayed? Arizona did nothing noticeably better at the start of the second period but I can clearly point out the lull the Rangers had in the second period when they went almost the first 10 minutes without a shot on goal. That's not because Arizona was suffocating them throughout the ice. Perhaps I need to sight the literal every NHL expert including Vali who routinely agrees with me.that a full 60 minute effort is the next step this team needs to take to be contending for the cup.

I don't even understand what this argument is about- you can't really believe the Rangers played a full 60 minute game last night...or maybe you do...

Wow- never said the players don't give a crap-- Guys this argument is just literally that. Look at any of what Vali said either at the end of last season, after the Columbus game,

Ihttps://nypost.com/2021/10/23/rangers-stage-furious-rally-in-final-minutes-to-stun-senators/
From 2021

From 2022- On the Rangers playing a full 60 minutes - Blue Seat Blogs

From 2023 after the game 6 loss--https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/36309248/rangers-lose-devils-again-shift-focus-win-game-6

Kreider admitted that the Rangers had let their advantage over the Devils slip away in two losses at Madison Square Garden.

"We've had a terrific fan base all year. We let them down, we let ourselves down at home," he said. "So it's up to us to show up and play the way we want to play from puck drop.

"All the cliches and euphemisms I throw at you guys all year, it's time to step up and do those things, right? It's time to play for a full 60 minutes. It's time to win a hockey game."

think I'm going back to not coming to this site. It totally feels like its just argument central around here and almost no actual hockey talk goes on.

Players being perfectionists is not the same thing as couch warriors actually expecting the team to outplay the other team the entire game.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You can win a game 12-0 and it still wouldn't be a "complete 60 minute effort" because there are bound to be a few bad shifts mixed in.

It's the dumbest hockey cliche that exists.

 

[DanielBrassard]

We didn't go out early because someone got cold. We went out early because the entire team played like putrid ass in the playoffs.

He's not wrong though, this team is short another scorer especially at 5v5. If Kakko and Lafreniere don't start scoring more this team is going to be in a similar position as last season looking for another RW who can play on the top 2 lines.

 

[rangersfansince08]

You can win a game 12-0 and it still wouldn't be a "complete 60 minute effort" because there are bound to be a few bad shifts mixed in.

It's the dumbest hockey cliche that exists.

Yeah exactly. Other teams have talent and players who are getting paid and trying to win too. Anybody who uses this cliche doesn't really understand hockey. If you are dominating the game (or any stat really, Corsi, Fenwick, G%, xG%, FO%) for 55-60% of the time you are likely an elite team and a cup contender.

 

[will1066]

They're still not getting special teams time, getting prolonged time sitting between shifts. Top 6 at EV or not, if they're not getting PP time they're not going to produce the kind of numbers people want.

If the organization was serious about it, they'd force the coach to put them in those spots. They aren't. New coach, same pets, same BS. They're giving them top 6 EV minutes, but it doesn't matter they still have to score all their points at even strength. We shouldn't even be saying even strength at this point its 5v5. Because they won't be out 4v4 anyway. They need to score all their points when it's 5v5. How sustainable do you think that is? If a game's final score is 3-2 you expect Laf and Kakko to always be one of the 3 goals? It's not realistic. Without PP1 time they aren't going to ever put up the points everyone wants and expects.

They'll use the excuse, just like fans, that "look they're playing top 6 now". Great but asking them to score ALL their points 5v5 is idiotic, they know it's not attainable. It's by design.

They barely put up points with these same players at EV that they would work with on PP1. This argument is inane! They would just defer the f*** out of themselves to set up Lord Tofu for his one- timer because that's always the set piece!

 

[Levitate]

Wow- never said the players don't give a crap-- Guys this argument is just literally that. Look at any of what Vali said either at the end of last season, after the Columbus game,

Ihttps://nypost.com/2021/10/23/rangers-stage-furious-rally-in-final-minutes-to-stun-senators/
From 2021

From 2022- On the Rangers playing a full 60 minutes - Blue Seat Blogs

From 2023 after the game 6 loss--https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/36309248/rangers-lose-devils-again-shift-focus-win-game-6

Kreider admitted that the Rangers had let their advantage over the Devils slip away in two losses at Madison Square Garden.

"We've had a terrific fan base all year. We let them down, we let ourselves down at home," he said. "So it's up to us to show up and play the way we want to play from puck drop.

"All the cliches and euphemisms I throw at you guys all year, it's time to step up and do those things, right? It's time to play for a full 60 minutes. It's time to win a hockey game."

think I'm going back to not coming to this site. It totally feels like its just argument central around here and almost no actual hockey talk goes on.

I mean that's all from years past and yes it's a big reason why Gallant was fired! The goal THIS YEAR is to get them to play with more intensity and more consistency which is what Laviolette preaches.

However, we are 3 games into the season. It's gonna be somewhat of a process but we've already seen improvements. You also ahve to be careful and differentiate between "lack of effort" and fighting it or being out of sync or things like that. Teams look like tehy're giving no effort when they're struggling to find each other with passes and play together.

At any rate, yeah, 3 games, give it time. If it's a big problem 20 games in, 40 games in, etc, then let's be more concerned.

e: also over a 82 game season, you're not gonna play every one of them perfectly and there are gonna be some clunkers and some where things just didn't work and somehow the "effort" wasn't there. It's a long season, no team looks 100% game in and game out. The goal should be to establish a general baseline of system and execution and effort but sometimes you know there's just gonna be a clunker in there

 

[will1066]

JFC. Kudos to anyone who gives a 60- minute effort in their 9 to 5 workday, every day

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Some people are here just for the points. And points from kids. They don't care about anything else. It's an incredibly myopic existence.

On a completely different note, @HockeyBasedNYC are you feeling better about yourself today?

Yes, marginally.

 

[JCProdigy]

JFC. Kudos to anyone who gives a 60- minute effort in their 9 to 5 workday, every day

Yeah, even backup goalies can only give those efforts some of the time, namely against the Rangers

But seriously, the whole 60-minute effort thing is a crutch that people and players themselves fall back on to explain away legitimate deficiencies coupled with random chance, that are present for a team and their day-to-day season.

 

[egelband]

Kakko made the first goal happen with a defensive play

He also had a tap in chance that’s more often than not a goal. There were a few missed gimmes in this one. Could have been a laugher.

 

[egelband]

The 60 minute effort complaints might be the dumbest in all of sports. The other team has professionals too. Are you really expecting the team to outplay the other team for the entire game?

100%. Effort can be “seen” on the defensive end. And the Rangers played a very responsible defensive game against a solid up and coming team.
On the offensive end there will always be lulls. As you say, the other team gets paid to do this too. Not to mention it takes a number of things going right - and some luck - to get an offensive chance (also helps when the referee isn’t playing defense on a breakaway).
I’m very impressed with the effort.

 

[egelband]

I don't think anyone can get on this team for not putting forward a "60 minute effort" when the refs are handing out PP's to their opponent like they're f***ing candy and on a second look, Goodrow shouldn't have been whistled for the PS either. Anyone else realize that they weren't really "wow'ed" by anyone in last night's game? Thats because they spent a decent amount of time on the PK 40 minutes into the game. There are a bunch of guys who don't play in those situations and it completely wrecks the rhythm and flow of the game for them.

These refs were complete and utter ass last night and the Rangers held it together and still won against a team that is honestly not that bad. Thats way more impressive than the mythical "60 minute effort."

The officials (and some bad luck) have tilted the ice against the Rangers considerably the last two games. Hopefully the officials at least start balancing out their incompetence a little better going forward.

 

[17futurecap]

Surprised some people are down, great start all things considered. And, please don’t break up the top 9 right now, all lines are playing extensively in the offensive zone.

 

[egelband]

If we dont control play for 60 minutes does the win even count?

Pro sports is like a tug o war. Two sides start off even and eventually one side overcomes/overwhelms the other.
Some fans are thinking it’s the hammer throw and the rangers have to just throw the other team into the sun or it’s not a valid win.

 

[duhmetreE]

He's not wrong though, this team is short another scorer especially at 5v5. If Kakko and Lafreniere don't start scoring more this team is going to be in a similar position as last season looking for another RW who can play on the top 2 lines.

Chytil and Kakko had the same amount as EvenStrength Goals as Zibs. Laffy was better the year prior.

Our Vet Centers need to be better imo. Zibs and Trocheck need to put the puck in the net at 5v5/Even-Strength. The kids can elevate their play for sure, there's still room for improvement.....

I've been beating the dead horse. Zibs needs to go back to using/trusting his wrist shot. It's his best weapon. He needs to be leading the team in the goal scoring department.... we'd be lost without Kreider

 

[egelband]

felt like teh coyotes started going down all over the ice in the third period especially last night. eitehr the rangers were getting very trip happy or someones were trying to draw some penalties

Yep. Speaking of trips, I saw Trocheck get tripped with a clear path to the net…so did everyone else. unfortunately the officials were not watching the puck carrier for some reason.

 

[mike14]

JFC. Kudos to anyone who gives a 60- minute effort in their 9 to 5 workday, every day

Thanks.
I just manage to give 60 minutes worth of effort in my 8 hour job, but it is a tough mark to hit. About time someone appreciated it!

 

[bobbop]

So you play 60 minutes of hard hockey against an ascending team, hold them to one goal and have a headache?

You should have been here in the 1960s and the late 1990s/early 2000s.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

JFC. Kudos to anyone who gives a 60- minute effort in their 9 to 5 workday, every day

I learned a long time ago it doesn't take 8 hours work for 8 hours of pay

 

[Gordon Bombay]

So... 3 games into a new system and new coach. These are good problems we're having. It looks like the veterans get it. This is a good thing. I was expecting the whole team to look lost.

I know no one wants to do it because they should be better, but give the kids time. It's gonna take them the longest to learn a new system. They came up with an all out war, do whatever works system. It's gonna take some time but they will be better for it.

The last time we had a coach who really flipped the script on what we were doing was AV. 3 games into that season people were calling him Trottier. These games have been great so far all considering.

 

[IchabodCrane]

 

[GENESISPuck94]

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The 4th line doesn't look bad because of Bonino lol

I didn't think Bonino looked all that bad. That Goodrow contract is awful. Vesey should be in the lineup, he's the best player of the 4th line depth guys.

So you play 60 minutes of hard hockey against an ascending team, hold them to one goal and have a headache?

You should have been here in the 1960s and the late 1990s/early 2000s.

What's this in reference to? Which Ranger said it?

 

[GENESISPuck94]

I think we do, actually.

We need another elite, really two, offensive impact players.

We have seen what happens with what we have. Someone goes cold and out we go, early. The talent we came to play with isn't good enough.

Even when we are overachieving, when you run into a Tampa, they are just better.

Problem is where and how are those guys acquired? The draft. That's the only way to do it. Even if the Rangers got one of those guys in the draft they'd relegate them to 3rd line lost soul with no special teams time. It's the Rangers way.

I have high hopes for Perreault. Kid is super intelligent with the puck and has a great shot and vision. But they'll most likely throw him down the lineup and waste his strengths.

Rangers never get it into their heads that offensive talent needs to be let loose to be offensive talent.

 

[JHS]

I mean that's all from years past and yes it's a big reason why Gallant was fired! The goal THIS YEAR is to get them to play with more intensity and more consistency which is what Laviolette preaches.

However, we are 3 games into the season. It's gonna be somewhat of a process but we've already seen improvements. You also ahve to be careful and differentiate between "lack of effort" and fighting it or being out of sync or things like that. Teams look like tehy're giving no effort when they're struggling to find each other with passes and play together.

At any rate, yeah, 3 games, give it time. If it's a big problem 20 games in, 40 games in, etc, then let's be more concerned.

e: also over a 82 game season, you're not gonna play every one of them perfectly and there are gonna be some clunkers and some where things just didn't work and somehow the "effort" wasn't there. It's a long season, no team looks 100% game in and game out. The goal should be to establish a general baseline of system and execution and effort but sometimes you know there's just gonna be a clunker in there

My exact orginal post that came under such intense scrutiny by one guy made the exact point that I’d like to see this team develop an identity as a team that puts in more consistent full game efforts. So I’m glad people now see my point as valid even though I knew it was from the start. Geeeeeeeezzzzzz