Does the 2021 Habs roster not get enough credit?

[GrandBison]

They also had the hardest schedule. The Winnipeg serie only last 6 days.

 

[BLONG7]

My personal fav was the 89 edition (didn’t see the 70’s dynasty). They were absolutely expected to go all the way, and they played like it. Just a steady cruise to the finals and just couldn’t contain Gilmour. Such a great team we had.

AHHHHHHHHH the 70's
We won 6 Cups during the 70's
Bruins 2
Goons 2
It was a glorious time to be a habs fan.

The 89 team was awesome also!! Then came the 90's and after we won the Cup in 93 the idiot Corey dismantled everything.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

100% fluke, it was still fun though. But yeah, typical case of a desperate GM throwing shit at the wall hoping it sticks and it did for a few weeks under once in a lifetime circumstances.

Team was mid all season long in the weakest improvised division in the league and almost missed the playoffs, they were so bad the coach got canned. They should have missed in 2020 too but COVID helped them 2 years in a row (bs play-in tournament in 2020, weak ass division in 2021).

Also Price being Price one last time and making them look way better than they actually were, random bum players getting hot… Flash in the plan and back to normal a few months later.

 

[Chili]

My personal fav was the 89 edition (didn’t see the 70’s dynasty). They were absolutely expected to go all the way, and they played like it. Just a steady cruise to the finals and just couldn’t contain Gilmour. Such a great team we had.

Looking back at the Flames, they were deep. They were a great team too, one of the best of that era but they had to beat the Oilers to get out of their division. They had a 'Win it for Lanny' mindset like Colorado had wanting to win for Ray Bourque.

Calgary Flames 1988-89 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 1988-89 Calgary Flames playing in the NHL.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I get the asterisk for 2020, the previous year. Because of covid, that season stopped abruptly about 70 games in, then rebooted five months later. That's not a legit season-playoffs marathon. It was more like an isolated tournament.

But 2021 was totally legit. Season, followed by playoffs, as God intended. No stupid 'play in'. Different divisions, but so what?

Playing in the Canadian division was a massive advantage. It's not the habs fault that 5 teams in the division were total dog shit, but to pretend our cup run was legit is just silly.

With regular divisions we're nowhere close to the playoffs.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I would argue the 2021 lightning is the best team ever assembled in the cap era.

I disagree strongly here. They were only third in their division and like 5th or 6th in goal differential.

The 2011 Canucks or the 2023 Bruins despite coming up short are probably the best teams assembled during the cap era.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

24-32

No matter how you look at it. That season was simply ass with nobody in the stands and the matchups. Literally 0 hype to the games

Id rather game 3 this year that the whole 4 rounds in the covid season tbh

 

[CzarDemidov]

What hurts the overall reputation of the 2021 team is the undeniable flaw every Bergevin team had: a very bad offense.

NHL Stats

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We were 17th in the NHL in gf/gp and 18th in ga/gp. Tampa was 8th in gf/gp and 6th in ga/gp.

This was not a good team but it was better than we generally remember because the teams immediately preceding and succeeding it were worse.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

A lot of people forget Price and Weber were out the final month or so of the regular season and returned as fresh as they possibly could be given their health issues to start those playoffs. That defence was also super underrated. I hate Bergevin, but he got it right for one season on the defensive side of things even if it was extremely short lived and luck based on health. We were very fortunate to be in the playoffs that year due to the Canadian division.

Signing Corey Perry was a good move. Not just Tavares, but overall heart and leadership in playoffs. He was a Sam Bennett type in playoffs. Perry still going strong at 40, scored 20 this season.

Toffoli was good move, free 35 goal scorer with grit. Returned us a first and Heineman . Edmunston good move. Big heavy D in playoffs. Added Protection for Price. No more Kreider type moves. Danault ranks as one of best trades in Canadiens history. I have it fourth best behind Lafleur, Roy and Suzuki trades. Chiarot good signing, returns us a first and fourth.

That was good team. Tons of character

 

[Lshap]

Playing in the Canadian division was a massive advantage. It's not the habs fault that 5 teams in the division were total dog shit, but to pretend our cup run was legit is just silly.

With regular divisions we're nowhere close to the playoffs.

Sorry, but the Canadian division was just as good and, in some cases, better than the other three. And don't forget, there were many weak divisions through hockey history. Is each of them illegitimate?

In 2021, Central had three good teams, three weak teams, and two crap teams, Detroit and Columbus. West was the weakest division by far, with Anaheim, LA, and SJ.

East was strong, but even they had NJ and Buffalo, two of the worst teams in the league.

The "Weak Canadian" myth simply isn't true. It was no different in quality, but for some reason, people have settled on this story, even though the evidence says otherwise.

 

[dcyhabs]

Price and Weber gave what was left of their health. Watching Weber destroy his body to win pushed other players to give a massive effort. Well, everyone except Staal, he was terrible and he kept getting so much ice time.

It was an incredibly fun run.

Expecting to be competitive the next year without Price, Weber, and Danault was nuts. Expecting Savard to replace Weber was ridiculous. Expecting Dvorak to replace Danault was crazy. Expecting the team to win without Price was incompetent.

That would have been the time to rebuild. Trade the guys they traded later at peak value.

 

[JianYang]

I disagree strongly here. They were only third in their division and like 5th or 6th in goal differential.

The 2011 Canucks or the 2023 Bruins despite coming up short are probably the best teams assembled during the cap era.

3rd in their division in regular season points, I presume? They were #1 in goal differential this year. It doesn't mean I had them as the favourite this year either.

I'm coming from the standpoint of roster quality. Lines 1 through 4. Defence pairings 1 through 3. The goalie. There were no holes to pick at.

Besides, if we are going to base this purely on regular season standings, that would have to be the season where we would need more contextualization than ever given the way that abbreviated season was setup.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Sorry, but the Canadian division was just as good and, in some cases, better than the other three. And don't forget, there were many weak divisions through hockey history. Is each of them illegitimate?

In 2021, Central had three good teams, three weak teams, and two crap teams, Detroit and Columbus. West was the weakest division by far, with Anaheim, LA, and SJ.

East was strong, but even they had NJ and Buffalo, two of the worst teams in the league.

The "Weak Canadian" myth simply isn't true. It was no different in quality, but for some reason, people have settled on this story, even though the evidence says otherwise.

What makes this case unique compared to other weak divisions throughout history is that

1) It was artificially constructed for a temporary reason

2) All games were played within the division

We were one of the worst teams in the league in 2020, 2022, 2023, and 2024.

But yeah, all of a sudden in 2021 we are suddenly good. Get real.

 

[Lshap]

What makes this case unique compared to other weak divisions throughout history is that

1) It was artificially constructed for a temporary reason

2) All games were played within the division

We were one of the worst teams in the league in 2020, 2022, 2023, and 2024.

But yeah, all of a sudden in 2021 we are suddenly good. Get real.

1) Every division in history is artificially created with a different mix-and-match of teams, just like 2020/21. 2020/21 wasn't more 'artificial' than any other. The only difference, obviously, is that 2020/21 only lasted one year, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the teams or the authenticity of the season. The season included regular games (albeit fewer) followed by four rounds of playoffs, just like always. Habs earned their spot.

2) Who cares if they only played within their division? The Habs' division included a top contender, two solid playoff teams, and two bubble playoff teams. Nothing weak about it. In fact, the Canadian teams as a whole had a higher quality than two of the other divisions. Again – every other division had two or three terrible teams that were worse than any in the Canadian division.

3) You're claiming the 2021 team was bad because different teams with totally different rosters were bad. This doesn't make sense.

 

[Chili]

Where are they now, 4 years later?

Of the players who were part of that playoff run all but 4 were still in the NHL this season. Only exceptions were Weber, Price, Byron and Staal, all 4 retired after solid to great careers.

Believe their NHL longevity says something about the group.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Price and Weber gave what was left of their health. Watching Weber destroy his body to win pushed other players to give a massive effort. Well, everyone except Staal, he was terrible and he kept getting so much ice time.

It was an incredibly fun run.

Expecting to be competitive the next year without Price, Weber, and Danault was nuts. Expecting Savard to replace Weber was ridiculous. Expecting Dvorak to replace Danault was crazy. Expecting the team to win without Price was incompetent.

That would have been the time to rebuild. Trade the guys they traded later at peak value.

Weber went out like a mf’n soldier.

Disagree about Staal. He was Jekyll and Hyde but he had plenty of great moments with Perry and Armia. They were one of the best cycling lines we’ve had in a LONG time

 

[DAChampion]

Where are they now, 4 years later?

Of the players who were part of that playoff run all but 4 were still in the NHL this season. Only exceptions were Weber, Price, Byron and Staal, all 4 retired after solid to great careers.

Believe their NHL longevity says something about the group.

Kotkaniemi is still being scratched in the playoffs

 

[Miller Time]

It was all a mirage sorry

The team was not very good
But Carey and Weber gave everything they had on their last legs
Byron gave everything he had
Suzuki and Caufield emerged

Leafs choked as usual, our goalie was better than their goalie (MUCH BETTER)
Jets weren't that good, and less so without Scheiffele
Vegas probably beats us 8 times out of 10, but we got a lil lucky here n there, and again, our Goalie was MUCH better than BOTH their goalies

Then we got trounced on the final stage by a cheating team

But the next year told us, yeah that was NOT a 'team built for the playoffs'
That was the Carey Price show
One last time.

100% this.

Price's first three rounds were as good a goalie performance stealing playoff series as I've ever seen. 10 of 17 games with .930+ save percentage... And before the "4 horsemen" are trotted out as driving that success, we gave up 30+ shots in 11 of those 17 games (and 3 more at 27+).

He was getting pelted and played hall of fame caliber to will us into the finals.

Once there, he had 3 games under .900 l, despite under 30 shots in each, to start the series and we're down 0-3.
.941 in game 4 win, before we lose the series in a 1-0 game (.967).

If anything, this thread highlights how much some fans exaggerate the "built for playoffs" narrative. Swap Price for Jack Campbell (who gave up 10 goals in the last 3 games of the series, when the Laffs were up 3-1), and the Clydesdale narrative goes about as far as Chiarot or Edmundson's breakout passes

You nailed it with "mirage"...

The 2021 Habs, like the 2003 Ducks and the 2004 flames, were not built for anything more than a Cinderella run on the back of a goalie stringing together a few series standing on his head.

 

[Sorinth]

100% this.

Price's first three rounds were as good a goalie performance stealing playoff series as I've ever seen. 10 of 17 games with .930+ save percentage... And before the "4 horsemen" are trotted out as driving that success, we gave up 30+ shots in 11 of those 17 games (and 3 more at 27+).

He was getting pelted and played hall of fame caliber to will us into the finals.

Once there, he had 3 games under .900 l, despite under 30 shots in each, to start the series and we're down 0-3.
.941 in game 4 win, before we lose the series in a 1-0 game (.967).

If anything, this thread highlights how much some fans exaggerate the "built for playoffs" narrative. Swap Price for Jack Campbell (who gave up 10 goals in the last 3 games of the series, when the Laffs were up 3-1), and the Clydesdale narrative goes about as far as Chiarot or Edmundson's breakout passes

You nailed it with "mirage"...

The 2021 Habs, like the 2003 Ducks and the 2004 flames, were not built for anything more than a Cinderella run on the back of a goalie stringing together a few series standing on his head.

Given that the argument for the 4 Clydesdales is that they kept opponents to the outside and cleared the front of the net so the goalie could see the puck I'm not sure pointing to number of shots or SV% actually disputes that argument. You would expect a high save percentage in that instance. I don't put a lot of stock into the NHL's shot tracking data and the downstream High Danger/Scoring Chances data that some websites use but you'd probably have to use that if you wanted to disprove the narrative that the D were good and a big part of the run.

Personally I think Price was our MVP, but two things can be true, Price can be the MVP and the D could have done a great job helping him and limiting quality chances against.

 

[JianYang]

Weber went out like a mf’n soldier.

Disagree about Staal. He was Jekyll and Hyde but he had plenty of great moments with Perry and Armia. They were one of the best cycling lines we’ve had in a LONG time

That Perry-staal-armia line was so refreshing in the playoffs. It's not often the Habs had a line that could simply hem a team in their zone and just play keep away. They also contributed well offensively for a bottom 6 trio.

 

[Miller Time]

Given that the argument for the 4 Clydesdales is that they kept opponents to the outside and cleared the front of the net so the goalie could see the puck I'm not sure pointing to number of shots or SV% actually disputes that argument. You would expect a high save percentage in that instance. I don't put a lot of stock into the NHL's shot tracking data and the downstream High Danger/Scoring Chances data that some websites use but you'd probably have to use that if you wanted to disprove the narrative that the D were good and a big part of the run.

Personally I think Price was our MVP, but two things can be true, Price can be the MVP and the D could have done a great job helping him and limiting quality chances against.

That's where the eye test comes in... As does familiarity with elite level hockey coaching & tactics.

Revisionist history aside, by game 4 of the laffs series some of the posters celebrating the Clydesdales were ready to put them out to pasture before our game 5 OT win.

As for the shot funnelling... I beg to differ with that narrative as well. Shot suppression is a far better indicator of defensive excellence. possession is the #1 goal of effective defending, followed by preventing picks from getting to the net. Being too slow & unskilled relative to the opposition to the point of having to concede 30+ shots/game on net (which doesn't capture shot attempts), is a sign of weakness, not strength... It only works, especially if you get pushed to multiple elimination OT games, if you get HOF goaltending... Which we did, as did the two other teams I listed.

It's a good coaching strategy to deal with having a far weaker roster... But that's why this team shouldn't be overhyped for what it accomplished... It was a mediocre team that fought courageously and leaned on their only viable path to victory to get to a finals. That should be kudos enough without the revisionist attempts imo

I'd add that Ducharme probably gets too little credit for his role in helping the team put that run together... The leadership in the room was quite high, but for a rookie coach that can become a hurdle & ego battle for control. From the outside, it seems as though he did a great job of getting the buy in needed and otherwise letting the vets set the tone. His implosion a year later as he struggled to get anything going (& he made some poor choices, no doubt) with the terrible roster MB saddled him with derailed his career and tarnished his reputation a bit unfairly imo)

 

[Walrus26]

I loved seeing the top 4 D abuse, bully and crease-clear almost every opponent into the dust, and watching the Perry-Armia-Stall line play dominant hockey in slow motion.

And I loved crushing the soul of Toronto's "Core 4" forever. We broke them, and it was glorious.

 

[Sorinth]

That's where the eye test comes in... As does familiarity with elite level hockey coaching & tactics.

Revisionist history aside, by game 4 of the laffs series some of the posters celebrating the Clydesdales were ready to put them out to pasture before our game 5 OT win.

As for the shot funnelling... I beg to differ with that narrative as well. Shot suppression is a far better indicator of defensive excellence. possession is the #1 goal of effective defending, followed by preventing picks from getting to the net. Being too slow & unskilled relative to the opposition to the point of having to concede 30+ shots/game on net (which doesn't capture shot attempts), is a sign of weakness, not strength... It only works, especially if you get pushed to multiple elimination OT games, if you get HOF goaltending... Which we did, as did the two other teams I listed.

It's a good coaching strategy to deal with having a far weaker roster... But that's why this team shouldn't be overhyped for what it accomplished... It was a mediocre team that fought courageously and leaned on their only viable path to victory to get to a finals. That should be kudos enough without the revisionist attempts imo

I'd add that Ducharme probably gets too little credit for his role in helping the team put that run together... The leadership in the room was quite high, but for a rookie coach that can become a hurdle & ego battle for control. From the outside, it seems as though he did a great job of getting the buy in needed and otherwise letting the vets set the tone. His implosion a year later as he struggled to get anything going (& he made some poor choices, no doubt) with the terrible roster MB saddled him with derailed his career and tarnished his reputation a bit unfairly imo)

Given that the argument was made by a number of ex-NHL players/coaches turned analyists a call to someone's familiarity with elite level hockey coaching & tactics doesn't help your case. And if we were knocked out by the leafs then a lot of posters would've put the blame on Price since posters always blame the goalie even when they do well. So again not sure how that helps your argument.

Now it's true the #1 best defence is controlling the puck in the opponents zone, however you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And given the reality that even very very good teams do spend significant time in their own zone it is worth looking at what's best when in your zone defending, which is clearing the net and keeping the shots to the outside.

And I would point out this argument of looking at shots to prove we were being dominated doesn't actually hold much weight. Overall the shot differential was less then 2 shots per game and in the cup finals it was under a single shot per game. There were times we were dominated and there were times we dominated, there were times where shot totals reflected that domination and many of the shots were high quality ones and there were times that there were lots of shots but not a lot of dangerous ones. The eye test for me said we were outplayed by Toronto, we outplayed Winipeg by a lot and Vegas by a little, and everything came crashing down against Tampa.

 

[CzarDemidov]

The eye test for me said we were outplayed by Toronto, we outplayed Winipeg by a lot and Vegas by a little, and everything came crashing down against Tampa.

I'd concur with this, with extra emphasis on the "crashing down against Tampa". That loss was very sour to me, it felt like TBL was in another division.

 

[dcyhabs]

I'd concur with this, with extra emphasis on the "crashing down against Tampa". That loss was very sour to me, it felt like TBL was in another division.

Weber and Price had their bodies give out that series. They were the stars, and also the motivators. When they were done the team was done.