Does Tampa have the best Pro Scouting Department?

[Perfect_Drug]

Back when Chris Pronger played in Edmonton, he made a tweener scrub look like a legitimate #2 stud Dman in Marc Andre Bergeron.

Elite players can make middling talent look exceptional.

Pat Maroon scored 27 goals on McDavids wing.
Kailer Yamamoto scored 20 goals on Draisaitls wing.


The reason I bring this up, is that a lot of "pro scouting moves" look like brilliant scouting, but ultimately it likely has to do with being able to play with higher-end talent.

Acquiring Bogosian, or Shattenkirk aren't shrewd scouting moves. They were put in a depth position and somewhat sheltered due to having a much better partner that can carry them.

Getting them to Play with Sergachev on a 3rd pairing isn't a shrewd scouting move.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

JJ Moser is the other sneaky good pickup from this offseason. But I don’t think we’re the best, as others have pointed out there are counter-examples (Jeannot, Sheary).

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Bill Zito is the best pro scouting department

Good thing the Oilers pivoted to Ken Holland when he became available....

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Canes lost two Top 4 defensemen and two Top 6 forwards this offseason and everyone (justifiably) predicted them to take a major step back. Especially when they didn’t seem to replace any of the above. But the scouts identified players that would work in the system and Carolina, at least thus far, hasn’t seemed to have lost a step.

Now if only those scouts could find a healthy goalie…

It’s really not just this year though either. Nino was an awesome find years ago, Skjei, Trocheck, DeAngelo briefly, Chatfield has been an incredible find, Fast, Noesen, probably some others I'm missing.

Like the Bolts, yeah the core pieces have been home grown but both teams have done a great job of filling in the gaps through pro scouting with great finds that fit in very well.

I'd say Florida is the best in this regard though just from the star power they've gotten from other teams' "scraps." Quite a bit of their core is not home grown.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Bill Zito is the best pro scouting department

It's not just him, he has a team around him. The pro scouts, Dudley, McCabe, Jackson, Fenton, Luongo. They all do a great job.

 

[Canovin]

Winnipeg is underrated. So is Dallas

 

[Hint1k]

Winnipeg is underrated.

Winnipeg is 24th out of 32 (37% win rate in playoffs) in the last decade.

37% win rate, Carl.

They are severely overrated. Not underrated.

 

[Canovin]

Winnipeg is 24th (37%) in playoff win % in the last decade.

37% winning rate, Carl.

They are severely overrated. Not underrated.

Doesn't mean anything. You have to look at it individually. The players they have are good. Just can't put it together.

 

[Hint1k]

Doesn't mean anything. You have to look at it individually. The players they have are good. Just can't put it together.

It means everything. The criteria how something good or bad is RESULT!

 

[Canovin]

It means everything. The criteria how something good or bad is RESULT!

Winnipeg has produced a lot of NHLers thru every rounds. I believe that's the point of this thread?

 

[Hint1k]

Winnipeg has produced a lot of NHLers thru every rounds. I believe that's the point of this thread?

You got it all wrong. The result shows Winnipeg is bad. Like 24th in NHL bad. And I am not even talking about Cups or series wins. Just game wins, Carl. They are a really bad team, bottom dwellers in playoffs.

 

[benfranklin]

If were quantifying this by trades, then the Avalanche have to be up there.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It's much easier to get fits around a star-studded core. A rising tide lifts all boats.

I'd probably give Florida a nod and the flowers right now, as they won a Cup without being a very homegrown roster even though they started out fairly homegrown, but slowly and gradually upgraded their roster away from homegrown guys to player elsewhere, really showing the power of effective and active management.

 

[emptyNedder]

Surprised Vegans hasn't been mentioned.

Built on scouting--more successful than any previous team. I know the rules were favorable, but the Knights still put together a highly competitive team from players not considered core players by every other team. Since they have been aggressive in moving out players and consistently replaced them with contributors. Four drafted players on the current roster.

 

[abo9]

Hot take: Tampa won because of their elite core and their trade acquisitions are overrated because they ended up winning the cups anyways.

Not saying they aren't/weren't good players

This.

First post mentions Goodrow, Coleman and Hagel.

Coleman performed like he always does in TB, hardly some diamond in the rough.

Same for Goodrow, most likely the most overrated support player of recent memory.

Hagel is genuinely good, and looked genuinely good on the Blackhawks. Reminds me of the Sergachev deal, where it was less about Tampa finding a hidden gem, and more about finding a great deal out of nowhere.

What happened to JT Miller, Carter Verhaegue?

 

[Mogo]

JJ Moser is the other sneaky good pickup from this offseason. But I don’t think we’re the best, as others have pointed out there are counter-examples (Jeannot, Sheary).

You're saying that like he didnt cost anything

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Guentzel is elite?

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

Carolina
Minnesota
Tampa Bay
Florida
New Jersey

all have pretty good pro scouting.

 

[Rschmitz]

Tyler Johnson
March
Nick Paul

To add to the list

Moeser looks to be another hidden gem.

 

[FerrisRox]

They’re up there. Canes have been really great too

The decision to give up a first round pick to pay Jesperi Kotkaniemi six million makes it awfully difficult for me to say Carolina has great pro scouting.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Maybe it once was but I don't feel it is anymore. Getting Hagel is probably the only good move in the last three years. Probably the Sergachev trade too. But aside from those, it's been a steady stream of shit lately. The Jeannot trade, signing Sheary to a three year 6M contract, paying Nashville to take McDonagh only to pay them again to get him back and signing Philippe Myers, who they got back in that trade originally, to an extension before he had even played a game. Myers proceeded to be so bad he played 16 games in two seasons on a team that was dying for any capable D man.

Add to that pile of shit free agent signings like Johansson, de Haan, Atkinson etc. I'll admit, those are all near league minimum signings but they haven't fit in at all and pro scouting is all about finding guys who fit into your program.

Amateur scouting hasn't been any better. The last time we drafted a guy who has made any kind of difference was probably Nick Perbix in 2017 and even he's a 6/7D.

Like one poster said, it's a declining power like the rest of the franchise.

They got Paul right after the Hagel trade and he's been very good since he got here. Jeannot trade was a mistake but they needed toughness since they were moving on from Maroon and Perry, they also got 2 picks back when traded him. It's still an overpay but they got more than a season out of him, teams spend roughly what they did 1st, 3rd and 5th for a rental for 20 games and a playoff round.

McDonagh needed to be moved because they were signing Cirelli, Sergachev and Cernak that summer and they were all offer sheet eligible so it took that off the table. Meyers extension wasn't a factor, him buried was something like a 100k penalty, didn't affect anything. Getting him back made sense because we just moved Sergachev, the defense had been horrible lately and his salary won't be an issue this year and next.

The free agent signings were mostly all league minimum so not sure why you're upset with that? Sheary sucked but it's just 2M so not a huge commitment which hasn't impacted other moves. We've signed Lilleberg and Chaffee who are young contributors. Raddysh was a free agent signing as well. Drafting hasn't been good but that's more because we haven't had any 1sts in a long time and very few 2nds, the ones we have in the system are still young and the book isn't closed on.

BriseBois hasn't been perfect but he hasn't been bad either. He's retooling the team well also, we have been getting younger to supplement the older core to keep the window going.