Speculation: Does MLSE dictate how the team is *allowed* to behave on the ice?

[The Hanging Jowl]

There are so few people on this planet that would have such an interest in outright buying this team but I would love to see it.

Wh...what? Are you kidding? People with the money would line up down the street to buy this cash cow.

The Leafs are softer than old man Tanenbaum is without the Viagra.

They've been a team of manginas for years. A bunch of wimps that won't stand up for themselves or each other. It doesn't matter who the coach or GM is either.

They play the same way regardless.

The directive is clearly coming from above. Shanahan is worried his precious little babies will get their brains scrambled like he did if they fight. Given how dumb Shanahan appears to be he might actually be on to something.

There's no men on this team.

Just a bunch of little kids. A truckload of soft tits. If you're wondering how it ever got like this the answer is simple.

Look at the guy who's in charge.

Just saying, I genuinely laughed out loud at that first line.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

There’s definitely something happening cause players with grit come here and lose it pretty quickly. I don’t care about fighting at this point, but I would love a heavy forecheck with speed, scrums to defend the front of the net or teammates, and at the very least trying to lay a solid hit on a player who injures one of ours. No one on our team takes a number and that’s pathetic to me. This is the most skilled team (era) we’ve ever had, but those blue collar teams with Sundin at the helm felt a lot more likeable to me.

For the topic at hand, my personal belief is that it comes from Keefe. You would think that with Keefe and Shanahan’s past play it wouldn’t be like this, but here we are.

But Babcock had the same philosophy. So either it's above the coaching level or just a coincidence (and I admit it may be just a coincidence).

 

[Stephen]

North American hockey culture likes to pretend the sport is somehow blue collar shift work. Underdogs doing a tough job.

And from all I’ve ever heard it sounds like MLSE gives its players the best, no expenses spared. Which in turn pampers them and creates the “country club” atmosphere that the Leafs supposedly have.

 

[Gallagbi]

But Babcock had the same philosophy. So either it's above the coaching level or just a coincidence (and I admit it may be just a coincidence).

Babs had always been anti fighter and pretty well anti grit. Loved effort, but not really the dirty stuff

 

[Dekes For Days]

No.

You just have unrealistic expectations.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Babs had always been anti fighter and pretty well anti grit. Loved effort, but not really the dirty stuff

No one's asking for dirty. Personally I'm just asking for self respect and standing up for oneself and teammates. How has no one on Florida paid a price yet for what Bennett did to Knies and Staal's elbow to the face of Marner? So that's just in the past now? I just don't get it. I'd never let that stuff go. Ever. Maybe that's what separates professionals from idiots like me but other teams seem to carry a grudge.

 

[cyris]

No one's asking for dirty. Personally I'm just asking for self respect and standing up for oneself and teammates. How has no one on Florida paid a price yet for what Bennett did to Knies and Staal's elbow to the face of Marner? So that's just in the past now? I just don't get it. I'd never let that stuff go. Ever. Maybe that's what separates professionals from idiots like me but other teams seem to carry a grudge.

I’m asking for dirty.
Not Kadri going over the line and getting himself suspended dirty but the kind of dirty that guys like Bennet, Tkachuk, and Marchand bring absolutely.

I don’t love what the modern game has become with the rats taking over and the rules preventing opponents from holding them accountable. But it is what it is.
And if the rules are going to stop teams from holding them accountable we may as well have some rats of our own.

 

[Brown Dog]

I’m asking for dirty.
Not Kadri going over the line and getting himself suspended dirty but the kind of dirty that guys like Bennet, Tkachuk, and Marchand bring absolutely.

I don’t love what the modern game has become with the rats taking over and the rules preventing opponents from holding them accountable. But it is what it is.
And if the rules are going to stop teams from holding them accountable we may as well have some rats of our own.

Yeah I'm cool with dirty too. Marchand deserves it.

 

[myleafs]

Imo I think part of the problem is fans have developed an exaggerated mental image of what they think these guys can do (it's not 1995 anymore).

The league has structurally changed to reduce fighting over the years.

And the fact is, unless the other team has another fighter in the lineup, you're not going to see a scrap. A top 9F/4D player isn't going to take themselves out of the game for 5 minutes to fight a 4th liner like Reaves or Simmonds.

Ive seen Stamkos, Crosby,Malkin, McKinnon, OV, Tkchucks x2, etc stand up and fight when they felt it was needed. Its not just the fighting with the leafs, its the lack of pushback or response in any capacity when the testosterone gets high. Last night with Marchand was the perfect picture of what this team is and has been. Doesnt mean they arent a really good team, they are but after watching the playoffs for many many years I think its pretty clear that to go deep, you need some kind of spine. I personaly think you have it or you dont so unfortunately I think what we see is what we are going to get with this group at this time.

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

Ive seen Stamkos, Crosby,Malkin, McKinnon, OV, Tkchucks x2, etc stand up and fight when they felt it was needed. Its not just the fighting with the leafs, its the lack of pushback or response in any capacity when the testosterone gets high. Last night with Marchand was the perfect picture of what this team is and has been. Doesnt mean they arent a really good team, they are but after watching the playoffs for many many years I think its pretty clear that to go deep, you need some kind of spine. I personaly think you have it or you dont so unfortunately I think what we see is what we are going to get with this group at this time.

I think if you have a coach that tells players to scrum and push when their players get knocked around they will do that. If you have a coach that says don't get involved in that stuff and don't take penalties for retaliating you get what they have.

 

[Racer88]

Yeah I'm cool with dirty too. Marchand deserves it.

Yup me too. Someone needs to put Marchand face into the boards

Ive seen Stamkos, Crosby,Malkin, McKinnon, OV, Tkchucks x2, etc stand up and fight when they felt it was needed. It’s not just the fighting with the leafs, it’s the lack of pushback or response in any capacity when the testosterone gets high. Last night with Marchand was the perfect picture of what this team is and has been. Doesnt mean they arent a really good team, they are but after watching the playoffs for many many years I think it’s pretty clear that to go deep, you need some kind of spine. I personaly think you have it or you dont so unfortunately I think what we see is what we are going to get with this group at this time.

Almost every self respecting adult player sticks up for himself or his team mates but not this bunch.

 

[PromisedLand]

I'll elaborate further, are players that come in such as Matt Martin, Wayne Simmonds and now Ryan Reaves allowed to play the game the way they would like to or have in the past?

I'm just wondering if this comes from up top at ownership, management or coaching level?

The last time I can recall us being a particularly gritty / violent team we had Orr, McLaren and Fraser on the roster.

Is the team trying to be "nice" for family and kids etc coming to see the team? God, I hope it's not as stupid as that.

its been a pretty interesting "trend" with Martin, Simmonds, Reaves, etc...

but I've been of the opinion that the "toughness" has to first and foremost has to come from the core 4.

People also shouldn't confuse "toughness" with being a fringe "big hitter/fighter".

Toughness is laying hits but also taking hits to make plays, going into dirty areas, out working opponents, winning puck/board battles, etc. I expect this from everyone on the Leafs not just Reaves.

The fancy BS hockey needs to effing die else Leafs are gonig to be the same old Joke again and again

 

[WillNy29]

I’m asking for dirty.
Not Kadri going over the line and getting himself suspended dirty but the kind of dirty that guys like Bennet, Tkachuk, and Marchand bring absolutely.

I don’t love what the modern game has become with the rats taking over and the rules preventing opponents from holding them accountable. But it is what it is.
And if the rules are going to stop teams from holding them accountable we may as well have some rats of our own.

problem is when we get snarly the intermission talking heads blast it on full volume to get our guys suspended (IE Matthews feeding Dahlin his teeth).

If the refs and league are going to f*** us anyways then we may as well get a coach and personnel that can click at about 85% on the PK and just let the reigns off. Who cares then if we take a few penalties we'll be top of the league in the kill so we can (the Boston Model). Plus they can't call all of them or they would be showing themselves as massive liars (game management)

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

MLSE is the problem. They think they are big players in the League, but the reality is they are the piggy bank and all the other owners sneer and laugh at them behind their back. They are happy to tag along and bow and scrape because the money is good now, but that won't last forever. Look at all the empty barns in this league. The times they are a changing.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

problem is when we get snarly the intermission talking heads blast it on full volume to get our guys suspended (IE Matthews feeding Dahlin his teeth).

If the refs and league are going to f*** us anyways then we may as well get a coach and personnel that can click at about 85% on the PK and just let the reigns off. Who cares then if we take a few penalties we'll be top of the league in the kill so we can (the Boston Model). Plus they can't call all of them or they would be showing themselves as massive liars (game management)

What a beautiful world eh? The companies that own the Leaf's happens to also own the media that covers the Leaf's. I am not really the progressive type but if Nazeem Kadri's name was "John Michaelson" his treatment would have been much different by the league.

This league is an absolute joke. Every year people badger on ignorantly about how the League is changing, becoming quicker, more finesse plays, double Marseille Turns and Michigans all around, but then the play offs start and the game devolves into the same old clutching and grabbing, sucker punches, late hits, physical play, you saw 25 - 30 years ago. Remember when clutching and grabbing was going to be completely eliminated from the game post lockout 2005-2006? That lasted what? Half a season?

 

[supermann_98]

The Leafs are softer than old man Tanenbaum is without the Viagra.

They've been a team of manginas for years. A bunch of wimps that won't stand up for themselves or each other. It doesn't matter who the coach or GM is either.

They play the same way regardless.

The directive is clearly coming from above. Shanahan is worried his precious little babies will get their brains scrambled like he did if they fight. Given how dumb Shanahan appears to be he might actually be on to something.

There's no men on this team.

Just a bunch of little kids. A truckload of soft tits. If you're wondering how it ever got like this the answer is simple.

Look at the guy who's in charge.

You're description of the team is the best and most accurate I've ever read. I may not necessarily agree Shanny tells these wimps to not stand up for themselves or their teammates tho, that comes from a switch inside a person's head that they just don't got

 

[Leafshater67]

Imo I think part of the problem is fans have developed an exaggerated mental image of what they think these guys can do (it's not 1995 anymore).

They could at least not stare at their boots on the bench when the guy who just injuried their player is chirping at them. It’s the same shit this cowardly team did when Knies was taken out.

Every other team in the league would have defended their teammates. This team refuses to and it’s why they get bullied so badly out there, especially in playoffs. It’s a disgrace.

I think in a lot of ways, it’s the epitome of what’s wrong with this core. Selfish, soft and not willing to do the little things it takes or go to the dirty areas to win. I’d strip Tavares of captaincy. They need a major wake up call before they get crushed in the playoffs again.

They don’t need to fight but to sit back and do / say absolutely nothing every time is a disgrace.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

No one's asking for dirty. Personally I'm just asking for self respect and standing up for oneself and teammates. How has no one on Florida paid a price yet for what Bennett did to Knies and Staal's elbow to the face of Marner? So that's just in the past now? I just don't get it. I'd never let that stuff go. Ever. Maybe that's what separates professionals from idiots like me but other teams seem to carry a grudge.

Boston's coach said before their first game against FLA that it was a revenge game for getting booted. Our coach said it's a regular game and we are focused on the precious 2 points. One team wins a lot more than the other....

 

[SprDaVE]

Ridiculous. Tin foil hats and pushing the blame around. You think an exec is telling a player not to play aggressive and do his thing? People are tripping over each other to blame MLSE, Shanahan, the stick boy, Ballard, Tim Hortons...

Fans had this idea that Matt Martin was gonna come here and just punch people, throw hits every shift and be crowned the best power forward in the game. Before he was in Toronto he was the same, when he got to Toronto he was the same, when he left he was the same player.

Nick Ritchie is here! Finally a big power forward that can throw hits and fight. He never was that kind of player, but he'll be one here for sure... Look at his highlight package!

When Max Domi signed with the Leafs, so many people kept saying we finally got a tough player that will hit and fight! He never did any of those things. But because of his last name and the odd sucker punch highlight video, they made this idea in their mind that he was going to be Tie Domi.

Ryan Reaves was a useless player before he signed with Toronto, ousted from many teams for the exact problem we're seeing. He'll throw a hit sometimes, he'll fight sometimes. And then he'll be thrown aside.

So when all these players get unrealistic expectations about their game and who they are, people are quick to blame everyone else because there's no way they could have been wrong about who they actually were as hockey players.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Ryan Reaves was a useless player before he signed with Toronto, ousted from many teams for the exact problem we're seeing. He'll throw a hit sometimes, he'll fight sometimes. And then he'll be thrown aside.

So when all these players get unrealistic expectations about their game and who they are, people are quick to take a crap on them and blame everyone else because there's no way they could have been wrong about who they actually were as hockey players.

Bill Guerin said they loved having Reaves and wanted to resign him badly but it didn't work out. How were they deploying him that made him a difference maker as opposed to how the Leafs are deploying him and he's a non factor?

 

[SprDaVE]

Bill Guerin said they loved having Reaves and wanted to resign him badly but it didn't work out. How were they deploying him that made him a difference maker as opposed to how the Leafs are deploying him and he's a non factor?

He was terrible for them too. It must have been really hard for Guerin to see him go. All he had to give him was 3 years and 1.3M... it ain't much, right? This must have been Guerin:

 

[DuklaNation]

Its the finesse 4 that's the root of the problem.

 

[nuck]

True, thanks. But am I wrong to think there's a reason guys like Foligno and O'Reilly don't re-sign here?

Foligno wasn't offered a return at close to what the Bruins paid. But the real question is, if they needed such a player before he came, where is the Foligno type that replaced him? Ondrej Kase? They did extend Simmonds but they should have known better after year one that he wasn't a fit because it wasn't 2017 any more. Its lineup schizophrenia where they know they need "something different" but it changes by the day.

 

[nuck]

The 4th line seemed like it had an identity.

Orr nearly kills Plekanec - yes kinda dirty with the knee stuff but christ it's better to see us initiate than worry about retaliating.

Bourque came poking his nose in and gets levelled. You're not wrong in that the enforcer was still around but can we not get a watered/modern down version of that? A guy that can play, hit and fight?

If they quit trying to add these types two years after their expiry date that would help. That is a cost the club has not wanted to incur. Their salary structure has meant they principally look to add forwards with limited term or off the scrap heap. The D is different and the addition of Brodie is a good example. Good player, they admit they have a need and they add him. He just turned 30 and he wasn't an older vet in hard decline. Of course you aren't getting a legit power forward player or top pairing D at close to $5M per but the point is they never said "we'll just stand with the Bogosian addition on D because thats the money we have left".

If you feel that having at least some physical players is important you take the steps, like with the D when they saw a need for Muzz and Brodie they added. But you have to feel that's important to winning and management has shown with physical guys they really don't. Thats clearly not Keefe or Dubas hockey. I don't know if its Tre hockey but his 50 win lineup from 2021 had Coleman, Ritchie, Gudbranson, Lucic, Zadorov and Tkachuk. They didn't run around hitting everything in sight but the was a club that finished their checks. Unfortunately we won't see what he feels the club needs to change until he has been in the chair for a year.

 

[Stephen]

Based on Keefe's comments, it would appear the players are the problem.

The Big 4 aren't going to respond, maybe they shouldn't, doesn't matter we know they aren't going to scrum and punch on their own accord.

The window dressing toughness decided to not do anything either. Bertuzzi, Domi and Reaves.