Does Marner get Boo’d?

[notbias]

Are you predicting regular season, or playoffs?

If you want to know who the best players are, look at voting results for the Hart/Lindsay trophies. I looked at this some time ago so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC, Marner hardly ever gets any votes at all and that's just one more reason why I laugh whenever someone says Marner is the best player on our team - Matthews not only gets votes, he gets so many of them that he's actually won these awards.

Matthews is one of the best players in the league, Marner is not. Period.

So he gets votes.... so he is one of the best in the league? I am confused.

If getting votes doesn't count, I'd also say Draisaitl is no longer a top player by this definition, it looks like he has gotten random votes here and there recently like Marner, this is just by your definition of what is required to be a top player.

Matthews is probably the 2nd best player in the world too by this definition.

You are arguing with yourself about people saying Marner is the best player on this team, it is clearly Matthews.

 

[notbias]

some one check on marner LMAO

Who is going to break it to him that we are probably one of the slowest teams in the league?

We got tougher for sure, but we also signed a bunch of guys who are slow in the process.

I dont think you will see this guy falling for the "he cares too much" bull@$$^ while Marner is floating around open spaces. He cares too much, but doesnt put the time in the gym and avoids all physical play? Yeah, a former NHL enforcer isnt gonna be sympathetic. And Berube isnt gonna care about his feelings if he needs to bench him either. And it will be longer than one shift.

My bet is Marner will actually start playing in the physical areas as a result too.

I bet it has nothing to do with anything other than Marner hearing all the hate and wanting to prove people wrong.

I have a feeling he is going to love Marner, especially since we don't have many good defensive forwards.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So he gets votes.... so he is one of the best in the league? I am confused.

If getting votes doesn't count, I'd also say Draisaitl is no longer a top player by this definition, it looks like he has gotten random votes here and there recently like Marner, this is just by your definition of what is required to be a top player.

Matthews is probably the 2nd best player in the world too by this definition.

You are arguing with yourself about people saying Marner is the best player on this team, it is clearly Matthews.

He gets a small fraction of the votes that the best players in the league get which suggests that he's a small fraction of the player that the best players in the league are. And that's in his best years, most years he doesn't get any votes at all.

Does that help?

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

some one check on marner LMAO

Someone check on Matthews, Nylander, Rielly too.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner can't do it. He lacks the speed and body to drive a line. He can make a pass. Excellent passes but sometimes too risky for my liking.

then we move on.
He should be given the opportunity.

 

[notbias]

He gets a small fraction of the votes that the best players in the league get which suggests that he's a small fraction of the player that the best players in the league are.

Does that help?

In the last 3 years, Huberdeau has more votes than Draisaitl.

Is he better than him?

Your argument is "not enough people said he was one of the best players in the league, so he isn't"

Well, those same people said Huberdeau > Draisaitl.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Yes... just one large piece to why Nylander has beem better. Im assuming most have seen the rest of my reasons why. Theyve been well documented. I know you have.

or are you implying..you want me to post all Marners 7 playoff giveaways that led to gwgs against vs Nylanders 1?

You want me to post the article showing that in relation to the season, Marner had the largest negative change in slot shots and shot distance than other core leafs?

You want me to post the videos of Nylander fighting through checks protecting the puck, while Marner is falling when touched?

Want me to post screenshots of Edge stats showing Marner is bottom 50% in the entire NHL in speed and shot speed?

Do you want me to show you the video of Nylandertelling his teammate to shut up and play hockey and the subsequent reaction of Marner throwing his glpves like a child? Btw dont take my word for it, Jeff Oneill said the same thing about Marnsr throwing his gloves.

IVe posted all this 100s of times...youve been in those chats... but you need me to do it again? why?

To waste your time. But alas, you choose to participate in it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

In the last 3 years, Huberdeau has more votes than Draisaitl.

Is he better than him?

Your argument is "not enough people said he was one of the best players in the league, so he isn't"

Well, those same people said Huberdeau > Draisaitl.

I'm really not that interested in players on other teams so I don't really care about those guys. Just for curiosity's sake though I looked up the voting and I see that last season, neither of them got any votes, in 2022-23 Huberdeau wasn't among the 20 players that got at least one vote and Draisaitl finished 7th overall and in 2021-2022 14 players got votes, Huberdeau finished 5th and Draisaitl finished 9th.

Going by that, Huberdeau was better than Draisaitl in 2021-22 which seems reasonable to me, what it is it that you're objecting to here?

Back to Marner. These are Hart voting numbers, I can't find the Lindsay numbers anywhere but I think it's safe to assume that Marner's a non-factor there as well

2023-24:
12 players got votes, none for Marner

2022-23:
20 players got votes. Marner finished 13th with 15 votes. Considering 2 players got over 1000 votes, Marner's 15 is basically meaningless considering how much close he is to the players that got no votes than he is to the best players in the league that year.

2021-22
14 players got votes, none for Marner.

2020-21
21 players got votes. Marner was tied for 19th with 1 5th place vote. Again, basically meaningless.

Those are the only seasons where Marner got any votes at all. When we're talking about the best players in the league, Marner has never even been in the conversation, it's that simple.

 

[notbias]

I'm really not that interested in players on other teams so I don't really care about those guys. Just for curiosity's sake though I looked up the voting and I see that last season, neither of them got any votes, in 2022-23 Huberdeau wasn't among the 20 players that got at least one vote and Draisaitl finished 7th overall and in 2021-2022 14 players got votes, Huberdeau finished 5th and Draisaitl finished 9th.

Going by that, Huberdeau was better than Draisaitl in 2021-22 which seems reasonable to me, what it is it that you're objecting to here?

Back to Marner. These are Hart voting numbers, I can't find the Lindsay numbers anywhere but I think it's safe to assume that Marner's a non-factor there as well

2023-24:
12 players got votes, none for Marner

2022-23:
20 players got votes. Marner finished 13th with 15 votes. Considering 2 players got over 1000 votes, Marner's 15 is basically meaningless considering how much close he is to the players that got no votes than he is to the best players in the league that year.

2021-22
14 players got votes, none for Marner.

2020-21
21 players got votes. Marner was tied for 19th with 1 5th place vote. Again, basically meaningless.

Those are the only seasons where Marner got any votes at all. When we're talking about the best players in the league, Marner has never even been in the conversation, it's that simple.

You claimed that Hart voting indicates who the best players in the league are.

By your logic, Huberdeau > Draisaitl.

What is your definition of one of the best anyway? Top 50, the top ~5%? Top 10, the top ~1%? Top 5, the top ~0.5%?

 

[AvroArrow]

Marner will have a career year....people on here will have to eat their words.

Contract year for a guy who literally only cares about getting paid, or at least his dad does. Wouldn't shock me if he scored 110 points this year, just don't expect anything in the playoffs as usual.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You claimed that Hart voting indicates who the best players in the league are.

By your logic, Huberdeau > Draisaitl.

What is your definition of one of the best anyway? Top 50, the top ~5%? Top 10, the top ~1%? Top 5, the top ~0.5%?

Like I said:

Going by that, Huberdeau was better than Draisaitl in 2021-22 which seems reasonable to me, what it is it that you're objecting to here?

You keep asking questions, why don't you answer one for a change? I mean it seems like I already answered this one so not sure why you're still going on about this.

 

[francis246]

Wonder what it thinks of the other two?

I might test it out and put it through AI to see what it says too!

 

[notDatsyuk]

if you're considerating 3 year ago like too far away of right now, We can take only last 2 playoff to have at least more than 7 game

p/60
marner 1,84
matthews 1,73
nylander 1,72

primary pts
Marner 1,84
matthews 1,51
Nylander 1,21

playing 80% against top 6 for marner
73% for Matthews
61% for Nylander

vs last 3
p/60
matthews 2,36
marner 2,18
Nylander 1,66

primary pts
marner 2,02
matthews 1,73
Nylander 1,10

Ok - I'm bored with trying to chase you around your constantly shiftling goalposts.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Does this sound like a team concept Marner or 34/88 will thrive under?

SIMMONS: Don't tell Craig Berube he can't beat the odds and have success coaching Maple Leafs

Craig Berube's life has been against all odds story. So don't tell him he can't have success coaching the haunted Toronto Maple Leafs.

torontosun.com

Matthews and Nylander and even what's left of JT, yes. Marner, no.

 

[Antropovsky]

if you're considerating 3 year ago like too far away of right now, We can take only last 2 playoff to have at least more than 7 game

p/60
marner 1,84
matthews 1,73
nylander 1,72

primary pts
Marner 1,84
matthews 1,51
Nylander 1,21

playing 80% against top 6 for marner
73% for Matthews
61% for Nylander

vs last 3
p/60
matthews 2,36
marner 2,18
Nylander 1,66

primary pts
marner 2,02
matthews 1,73
Nylander 1,10

Oh, I want to play this game.

Marner fans love to point to stats when they favor Marner, but avoid applying the same standard when they don’t.
For example:
2024:

• Domi primary assists (5v5): 1.43/60
• Marner primary assists (5v5): 1.13/60
• Domi 5v5 points: 2.73/60
• Marner 5v5 points: 2.68/60

So by that logic, Domi isn’t just a better playmaker than Marner, but a better scorer too? Please advise.
A better way to assess Marner’s playoff value is to actually watch the goals and see who the real play driver is versus who’s riding coattails. Meghan Chayka’s research shows play drivers don’t always get the primary assist, and sometimes aren’t even credited for a point. I’ve done this before for goals in the playoffs and more often than not, Marner isn’t the key driver.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Does this sound like a team concept Marner or 34/88 will thrive under?

SIMMONS: Don't tell Craig Berube he can't beat the odds and have success coaching Maple Leafs

Craig Berube's life has been against all odds story. So don't tell him he can't have success coaching the haunted Toronto Maple Leafs.

torontosun.com

“We want to be a team first,” Berube said in a long, sit-down interview. “When I look at teams that win, it’s always about the team and what’s best for the team. It’s not about individuals.



“We want to play aggressive, physical hockey. I like to have a heavy team. And we want to play fast. And when I say heavy, I don’t mean running around and fighting people. Our team in St. Louis probably had the least number of fights in the NHL. We just played hard hockey, good in front of both nets.


Heavy hockey rules out Marner.

 

[Hellcat]

So he gets votes.... so he is one of the best in the league? I am confused.

If getting votes doesn't count, I'd also say Draisaitl is no longer a top player by this definition, it looks like he has gotten random votes here and there recently like Marner, this is just by your definition of what is required to be a top player.

Matthews is probably the 2nd best player in the world too by this definition.

You are arguing with yourself about people saying Marner is the best player on this team, it is clearly Matthews.

13th in Hart votes 2 seasons ago (Kucherov was 12th, Matty was 16th).

some one check on marner LMAO

LOL... I think Berube will get pace from this team, he wont get fast. He just described the Panthers TBH.

 

[Hellcat]

Oh, I want to play this game.

Marner fans love to point to stats when they favor Marner, but avoid applying the same standard when they don’t.
For example:
2024:

• Domi primary assists (5v5): 1.43/60
• Marner primary assists (5v5): 1.13/60
• Domi 5v5 points: 2.73/60
• Marner 5v5 points: 2.68/60

So by that logic, Domi isn’t just a better playmaker than Marner, but a better scorer too? Please advise.
A better way to assess Marner’s playoff value is to actually watch the goals and see who the real play driver is versus who’s riding coattails. Meghan Chayka’s research shows play drivers don’t always get the primary assist, and sometimes aren’t even credited for a point. I’ve done this before for goals in the playoffs and more often than not, Marner isn’t the key driver.

WOW so you are saying we have two elite playmaking wingers... THANKS!!
Every post you make , you make a bigger & better case why we should keep Marner.. good work sport.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

some one check on marner LMAO

Hey Chat GPT, please interpret what coach Berube means by this statement.


ChatGPT:

 

[Hellcat]

He gets a small fraction of the votes that the best players in the league get which suggests that he's a small fraction of the player that the best players in the league are. And that's in his best years, most years he doesn't get any votes at all.

Does that help?

Because I dont want to look for it and because the numbers are probably similar YOY, 2021-22 1,123 players played in the league, in 2022/23 Marner was 13th in voting , again if you want to find how many people played in 2022/23 feel free to do the google search, the math wont change much, 13th place/1,123.. that puts him 99.98842386464826 TOP percentile which suggest he is elite among the league.... twisting yourself into a pretzel to justify your hatred is just weak TBH.

 

[Antropovsky]

WOW so you are saying we have two elite playmaking wingers... THANKS!!
Every post you make , you make a bigger & better case why we should keep Marner.. good work sport.

If you want to pay powder puff Marner $11+ million to be less productive than a $3 million gritty Domi, then by all means, keep him.

2024 Marner Magic Stats:
- Max Domi, at a fraction of Marner’s salary, produced more primary assists and points per 60 minutes in 5v5 play (despite playing a fraction with Matrhews)
- The Matthews-Domi combination was twice as productive in 5v5 compared to Matthews playing with Marner.
- Defensively, lines with Nylander instead of Marner were the same or worse, showing little to no defensive advantage.

If gritty, lower-paid players can outshine Marner in key metrics, then paying him over $11 million seems questionable, especially when the team's overall performance doesn’t improve significantly with him on the ice.

But hey, if you think this justifies keeping Marner, all the power to you. As they say, "Some peopl can't see the forest for the trees." Based on the hockey knowledge you’ve displayed on this board since joining, this conclusion tracks.

 

[Confucius]

some one check on marner LMAO

Gee, Berube wants a tough fast team. Who else knew that would be a good team?

 

[Hellcat]

If you want to pay powder puff Marner $11+ million to be less productive than a $3 million gritty Domi, then by all means, keep him.

2024 Marner Magic Stats:
- Max Domi, at a fraction of Marner’s salary, produced more primary assists and points per 60 minutes in 5v5 play (despite playing a fraction with Matrhews)
- The Matthews-Domi combination was twice as productive in 5v5 compared to Matthews playing with Marner.
- Defensively, lines with Nylander instead of Marner were the same or worse, showing little to no defensive advantage.

If gritty, lower-paid players can outshine Marner in key metrics, then paying him over $11 million seems questionable, especially when the team's overall performance doesn’t improve significantly with him on the ice.

But hey, if you think this justifies keeping Marner, all the power to you. As they say, "Some peopl can't see the forest for the trees." Based on the hockey knowledge you’ve displayed on this board since joining, this conclusion tracks.

Averaging $7 mil per player for two super elite wingers... you are the gift that just keeps on giving ....

 

[notbias]

If you want to pay powder puff Marner $11+ million to be less productive than a $3 million gritty Domi, then by all means, keep him.

2024 Marner Magic Stats:
- Max Domi, at a fraction of Marner’s salary, produced more primary assists and points per 60 minutes in 5v5 play (despite playing a fraction with Matrhews)
- The Matthews-Domi combination was twice as productive in 5v5 compared to Matthews playing with Marner.
- Defensively, lines with Nylander instead of Marner were the same or worse, showing little to no defensive advantage.

If gritty, lower-paid players can outshine Marner in key metrics, then paying him over $11 million seems questionable, especially when the team's overall performance doesn’t improve significantly with him on the ice.

But hey, if you think this justifies keeping Marner, all the power to you. As they say, "Some peopl can't see the forest for the trees." Based on the hockey knowledge you’ve displayed on this board since joining, this conclusion tracks.

What is the difference in their goals? I keep getting told goals are very important, so I'm assuming Domi must be ahead there.

Also, Domi is gritty? What does gritty mean to you?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because I dont want to look for it and because the numbers are probably similar YOY, 2021-22 1,123 players played in the league, in 2022/23 Marner was 13th in voting , again if you want to find how many people played in 2022/23 feel free to do the google search, the math wont change much, 13th place/1,123.. that puts him 99.98842386464826 TOP percentile which suggest he is elite among the league.... twisting yourself into a pretzel to justify your hatred is just weak TBH.

You cherry picked the one year in his career where got more than one single vote, I wonder why you would do such a thing? Maybe that year is impressive by your standards but the winner that year had a vote total of 1951 and Marner's total of 15 is less than 1% of that.

So in his best year, Marner still had less than 1% of the votes the winner had. If you think that's worthy of the "elite" label then good for you. Considering that even in that best year of his, he was 100 times closer to the worst player in the league than he was to the guy that won the Hart, I'll just say that you and I have different ideas of what "elite" means.