Does Marner get Boo’d?

[francis246]

Makes sense. Just for the record I'm not siding with Babcock on it, I couldn't stand him when he was coaching the Leafs.

Yes, I got the sense in your post. I do agree we needed a hard type coach by Babcock wasn’t it. At the end of the day it’s frustrating to look back, so much has gone wrong. How we are 1-8 with this core is baffling. How we didn’t make a coach change or a trade after Montreal is baffling. Apathy for the team at an all time high

 

[Gary Nylund]

Makes sense. Just for the record I'm not siding with Babcock on it, I couldn't stand him when he was coaching the Leafs.

I remember being happy when we hired him, and even happier still when we fired him.

 

[francis246]

I remember being happy when we hired him, and even happier still when we fired him.

I was happy but pissed when we fired him because we should have fired him in the off-season so there could be a more extensive search for a coach. About the only thing I agree with Dubas on, he should have been allowed to fire Babcock that off-season before covid.

 

[Racer88]

Draisaitl hasn't won an award in 4 years, is he no longer one of the best players?

I'll wait

He was and is because he has won awards
Hart trophy
Art Ross
Ted Lindsay
German sports personalities of the year
Marner
0
0
0
0
The best players in the world generally take turns having banner years and winning awards, however Marner has won nothing, zero, nada
So it will be me waiting not you

 

[Gary Nylund]

I was happy but pissed when we fired him because we should have fired him in the off-season so there could be a more extensive search for a coach. About the only thing I agree with Dubas on, he should have been allowed to fire Babcock that off-season before covid.

Makes sense, but it feels like Dubas had no interest in an extensive search for a coach, he just wanted Keefe so firing him in the off-season wouldn't have changed anything.

As far as Marner goes, looking at stats is kind of pointless, at least for people like me who have watched almost every game he's played in the NHL. If we judged players by regular season only, he'd be right up there with the best wingers in the league but he hasn't been nearly as effective in the playoffs, and it seems like the bigger the games are, the less effective he is. To me that's as plain as day after watching him play hundreds of games so I don't need stats to tell me what I already know.

 

[notbias]

He was and is because he has won awards
Hart trophy
Art Ross
Ted Lindsay
German sports personalities of the year
Marner
0
0
0
0
The best players in the world generally take turns having banner years and winning awards, however Marner has won nothing, zero, nada
So it will be me waiting not you

Marner may win German Sports Personality of the Year — 2024, so don't count him out yet.

Draisaitl hasn't been elite in 4 years.

Panarin is not elite, Pastrnak is not elite (does the Rocket count? If so, he is half elite), Rantanen is not elite, Tkachuk is not elite, Bouchard is not elite...

I am sure the list goes on, but those are some off the top of my head.

Most players are only elite for a year or two by your standards.

 

[Racer88]

Marner may win German Sports Personality of the Year — 2024, so don't count him out yet.

Draisaitl hasn't been elite in 4 years.

Panarin is not elite, Pastrnak is not elite (does the Rocket count? If so, he is half elite), Rantanen is not elite, Tkachuk is not elite, Bouchard is not elite...

I am sure the list goes on, but those are some off the top of my head.

Most players are only elite for a year or two by your standards.

Fair enough I will wait for Marners elite to show up

 

[keonsbitterness]

German sports personalities of the year

I won that twice and I'm not even German!

 

[rumman]

Yes, I got the sense in your post. I do agree we needed a hard type coach by Babcock wasn’t it. At the end of the day it’s frustrating to look back, so much has gone wrong. How we are 1-8 with this core is baffling. How we didn’t make a coach change or a trade after Montreal is baffling. Apathy for the team at an all time high

Babcock was hard on the players, and some of his tacits were beyond questionable, but don’t forget they quit on him, hope Beeube doesn’t suffer the same fate where the going gets tough………

 

[notDatsyuk]

let's watch the 7 secondary assist he had last 6

gm 2 vs tampa in 2023... get a pass in netral zone skate in free space until offensive zone, made a basic pass to rielly and missed the puck on the tip-in but that still giving a rebound for JT... so he recorded a pts for a missing play

2022 gm 6 matthews won a faceoff and nylander just push the puxk to gio a blue line

gm 4 vs mtl,
1-Nylander missed his cross crease pass to simmonds who been able to get the puck back and sent it to blue line. so an other pts for a missing play

2- holl made him a pass his leafs zone and nylander skate until neutral zone and made an easy cross crease pass in space to Muzzin... that's it... get a pts

gm 2 vs cbs, in defensive situation cbs foward tried a pass who accidentaly hit nylander, thats it secondary assist

gm 4, he skated in cbs zone with the puck... thats it

6 of 7 nylander secondary assist was a total gift where he did basically nothing. So if you want to give as much credit to those pts, its your choice but for me that doesn't have any value or this value is not higher than exemple a player winning a battle in the corner, create a screnn or making a defensive play to get the puck back... Every kind of play who dont come with any stats...It's kind of player than even a guy like reaves are able to do

Do you really want to tell me than all those play is what making nylander a better player in playoff!?!?!

Actually you started the conversation and it was about goals.

When you were shown to be wrong about goals you shifted into some assists, making up weirdly detailed (and largely incorrect) stories about a few assists, going back five years (talk about an obsession!)

No, your weird ideas are not what makes him better in the playoffs. His overall play and his not disappearing is.

 

[thusk]

Actually you started the conversation and it was about goals.

When you were shown to be wrong about goals you shifted into some assists, making up weirdly detailed (and largely incorrect) stories about a few assists, going back five years (talk about an obsession!)

No, your weird ideas are not what makes him better in the playoffs. His overall play and his not disappearing is.

youre the guys who came back 5, 6 years ago, personally i was talking about 3 years to talk about rescent playoff and to have enough game to get a real idea...and last 3 year Marner outplayed Nylander in basically every stats at 5v5 pretty easily.

But again i know you gonna tell me it's because Marner played with Matthews and nylander with Jt... Nylander played like +/- 3,5 conplete 5v5 hockey game, the only goal they scored together without Marner was a goal where Carlo felt on the ixe and gave up the puck free to matthews for an easy 2v1... exemple of we transfert the production he had with matthews for the last 25 lwafs played, its 7 pts in 25 game, its even worst than what he did.

So the obly thing you still have is coming back 6 year ago or just on last playoff when nylander scored 2 lucky goal

 

[Arzak]

Marner may win German Sports Personality of the Year — 2024, so don't count him out yet.

Draisaitl hasn't been elite in 4 years.

Panarin is not elite, Pastrnak is not elite (does the Rocket count? If so, he is half elite), Rantanen is not elite, Tkachuk is not elite, Bouchard is not elite...

I am sure the list goes on, but those are some off the top of my head.

Most players are only elite for a year or two by your standards.

hh Pasta half elite because Rocket shared with Ovi.

His second place MVP while leading Bruins in points by 50 more than second Marchand on a historically good president trophy team?

Or his last season playing with LW Zacha as his C after they lost Bergy and DK?

I guess Pasta sucked ass since he won Rocket.

In contrast, Mitch being nominated for freaking Selke 2 years ago? ELITE


Mitch has a better chance of being German sports personality of the year 2025 than winning Hart, Art, Rocket or Smythe - you know them as awards that matter.

But I like how you can compare player who carries the whole team with one un-capable of having his own line.

 

[thusk]

hh Pasta half elite because Rocket shared with Ovi.

His second place MVP while leading Bruins in points by 50 more than second Marchand on a historically good president trophy team?

Or his last season playing with LW Zacha as his C after they lost Bergy and DK?

I guess Pasta sucked ass since he won Rocket.

In contrast, Mitch being nominated for freaking Selke 2 years ago? ELITE


Mitch has a better chance of being German sports personality of the year 2025 than winning Hart, Art, Rocket or Smythe - you know them as awards that matter.

But I like how you can compare player who carries the whole team with one un-capable of having his own line.

ok if i taking your theory

Hall won an hart trophy so he should be considerating like better than Matthew Tkachuk who didn't even won a single trphy and will probably never won anyone?

but i'm agree than Pastrnak should be considerate in elite player but shoe the ridiculous of your comment. Trophy nomibarion is not whats making you elite player or not

 

[leaffann]

This kind of thread tends to be frowned upon by management.

If it's hockey talk management should encourage free speech, don't like the subject move on pretty simple. Let people post what they wish if it is hockey related, end of conversation.

 

[notDatsyuk]

youre the guys who came back 5, 6 years ago, personally i was talking about 3 years to talk about rescent playoff and to have enough game to get a real idea...and last 3 year Marner outplayed Nylander in basically every stats at 5v5 pretty easily.

But again i know you gonna tell me it's because Marner played with Matthews and nylander with Jt... Nylander played like +/- 3,5 conplete 5v5 hockey game, the only goal they scored together without Marner was a goal where Carlo felt on the ixe and gave up the puck free to matthews for an easy 2v1... exemple of we transfert the production he had with matthews for the last 25 lwafs played, its 7 pts in 25 game, its even worst than what he did.

So the obly thing you still have is coming back 6 year ago or just on last playoff when nylander scored 2 lucky goal

You are the one who started with 8 years and 3 years (because 3 years was the only time span that fit your bias). I just pointed out that all the other ones - from six down to the most recent one - all proved that you were wrong. All you pointed out was that - in that very select time frame - Nylender hadn't outscored Marner by much.

I'm afraid you're wrong again - I actually, I very carefully avoided mentioning their linemates.

The only thing you have is that in your very odd opinion Nylander seemed to get lucky goals last year (but still more than Matthews, Marner, and Tavares combined). Good thing someone was lucky!

 

[Strangle]

There is zero chance Marner gets boo’d

 

[notbias]

hh Pasta half elite because Rocket shared with Ovi.

His second place MVP while leading Bruins in points by 50 more than second Marchand on a historically good president trophy team?

Or his last season playing with LW Zacha as his C after they lost Bergy and DK?

I guess Pasta sucked ass since he won Rocket.

In contrast, Mitch being nominated for freaking Selke 2 years ago? ELITE


Mitch has a better chance of being German sports personality of the year 2025 than winning Hart, Art, Rocket or Smythe - you know them as awards that matter.

But I like how you can compare player who carries the whole team with one un-capable of having his own line.

He is half elite because the definition of elite is winning trophies.

Seriously though, did you think my post was serious? Can you be that clueless?

I was pointing out a bunch of elite players who won nothing because being elite has nothing to do with winning trophies, you can be elite without it.

I am shocked that you read my post and thought I was the one tying elite-ness to trophies.

Goaltending and defensive play carries Boston by the way.

 

[Antropovsky]

Babcock was hard on the players, and some of his tacits were beyond questionable, but don’t forget they quit on him, hope Beeube doesn’t suffer the same fate where the going gets tough………

Babs had a very successful 2018-2019. The beginning of 2019...the Leafs had many key injuries to start the season, no backup (Sparks was the backup), and also had the most back to backs games.

They didnt quit on him. It was the back to backs and no backup that were the main issue. Backups couldnt win #$%$.

While I dont disagree that Babs wasnt liked. However, I do think Babs is an incredible coach and hockey mind...just maybe not a likeable guy with questionable ethics. Note that Marleau liked him though. Kadri also liked him.

Recall here was a rumor that Matthews didnt want to play with Hyman. Which in hindsight was probably a bad move on Matthews part. The rumor was Matthews and Marner wanted to play together. Well in hindsight, it appears Matthews actually plays better with strong forecheckers, with a net presence and Marner doesnt actually move the needle for him.

Babs loved players like Moore, Hyman etc. He saw Kadris value. He didnt want anything to do with the Petans, Malgins or the Barries. Many good coaches want nothing to do with these players. Which were the players rookie Dubas was targetting. In hindsight we can see that a guy like Par Lindholm is more valuable than Petan. ESPECIALLY going into the playoffs. A player like Kadri much more valuable than Barrie etc.

There is zero chance Marner gets boo’d

Do players ever get boo'ed for refusing to waive? I dont think so.

Its a bit of a silly title.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Babcock was hard on the players, and some of his tacits were beyond questionable, but don’t forget they quit on him, hope Beeube doesn’t suffer the same fate where the going gets tough………

I think they're less likely to quit on Berube for 2 reasons:

1 - After so many playoff failures, maybe, just maybe the "stars" are less full of themselves now and therefore more ready to do what they're told, and less likely to think they're smarter than anyone else.

2 - Berube's not the dick that Babs was.

 

[thusk]

You are the one who started with 8 years and 3 years (because 3 years was the only time span that fit your bias). I just pointed out that all the other ones - from six down to the most recent one - all proved that you were wrong. All you pointed out was that - in that very select time frame - Nylender hadn't outscored Marner by much.

I'm afraid you're wrong again - I actually, I very carefully avoided mentioning their linemates.

The only thing you have is that in your very odd opinion Nylander seemed to get lucky goals last year (but still more than Matthews, Marner, and Tavares combined). Good thing someone was lucky!

It was in Carreer stats and didn't took a random 6 year for no reason..and last 3 but go ahead to give a sample with enougj game played
just like thwt

against opposite top 6
nylander
2024 1 goal for-1 against 68 % of ice time
2023 3 goal for vs 10 against in 58%
2022 1-1 63% of time

5 goal for 12 against 63% against top 6

Marner
2024 2-2 gf/ga 83% against top 6
2023 6-4 77 % against top 6
2022 3-2 81% against top

11-8 playing an average of 80% against top 6

 

[thewave]

I think they're less likely to quit on Berube for 2 reasons:

1 - After so many playoff failures, maybe, just maybe the "stars" are less full of themselves now and therefore more ready to do what they're told, and less likely to think they're smarter than anyone else.

2 - Berube's not the dick that Babs was.

Babs shouldn't have done what he did. Marner should have dealt with it privately and not turned it into a worldwide drama bomb.

I would have moved from both for that reason. Two wrongs don't make a right. As a result we had endure a yes man coach that allowed the team to play in stat padding track meets all season long. For years they played trashy regular season hockey but the kids contracts got bigger and they were happier I think.

Mitch the Snitch

 

[thusk]

Babs shouldn't have done what he did. Marner should have dealt with it privately and not turned it into a worldwide drama bomb.

I would have moved from both for that reason. Two wrongs don't make a right. As a result we had endure a yes man coach that allowed the team to play in stat padding track meets all season long. For years they played trashy regular season hockey but the kids contracts got bigger and they were happier I think.

Mitch the Snitch

A lot of player talked against Babcock not jusr Marner, like Johan Franzen by exemple. Marner was not the 1st one

 

[Racer88]

He is half elite because the definition of elite is winning trophies.

Seriously though, did you think my post was serious? Can you be that clueless?

I was pointing out a bunch of elite players who won nothing because being elite has nothing to do with winning trophies, you can be elite without it.

I am shocked that you read my post and thought I was the one tying elite-ness to trophies.

Goaltending and defensive play carries Boston by the way.

You take everything to the absurd, as sure sign that you are losing the debate, nobody said all it takes to be elite is to win awards, they are a measure of excellence but not the only one. Another one is a player elevating himself in the playoffs, something your boy Marner has never done. It’s almost impossible to have a conversation with you. Your blind love of all things Dubas is just that, blind

 

[PromisedLand]

some one check on marner LMAO

 

[diceman934]

Marner will have a career year....people on here will have to eat their words.