Does Marner get Boo’d?

[Racer88]

So he is one of the best players in the league.
How many team or individual awards has he won.
How many records has he set……
I will wait

 

[ACC1224]

Just my opinion, but you really don't want other superstars feeling sorry for your program and rooting for your much maligned guys to have success...

When other teams look at your stars and program, you want them to do so with a mix of dread, a bit of jealousy, some schadenfreude and a lot of hatred. That's how you know you've been places, are a threat to their success and are the best of the best. Think about how people feel about Kucherov and Tampa, Florida when they're winning. Everyone hates those guys.

True enough. No one hates the Leafs like Leaf fans do.

 

[notDatsyuk]

that's change nothing and just say basically the same thing i said.

Marner exemple at 5 goal, hes completly trash but how great nylander is at 7 goal???

focusing on last playeoff...
1 goal it was mcavoy who sent it in his own net when they miserally fail to block it

1 goal was a free 2v1 wher Carlo felt in corner and gave up an free 2v1...

So do 2 lucky goal really making nylander a better player?!?!?!

That's a really weird interpretation of the goals.

You're the one who said he didn't score. I just pointed out that he scores more than Marner, and over the last two playoffs, as many as Matthews. What more do you want - I showed that he scored as many as the best scorer in the league, despite less ice time and a much worse linemate.

Which, by the way, was absolutely NOT what you said.

 

[notDatsyuk]

you're right Nylander had been great to boost his stats with secondary assist

primary pts
marner 1.37
Matthews 1,32
Nylander 1.10
Tavares 0,98

secondary assist
Nylander 0,70
Matthews 0,41
Tavares 0,32
Marner 0,17

You lost the argument about goals and points so you're moving the goalposts to selected assists?

I know you have a hate on for Nylander, but you really have to start to accept the facts.

or just mean he got free pts

exemple you skating in neutral zone with the puck, you dump it and your teammate goes 1st on the puck and make a pass for a goal... you get an assist for a dump...

you skating in offensive end and just making a basic pass to a d who shoot it with someone deflected the puck, you got an assist for doing basically nothing.

At least primary assist you srt up the play most of the time.

None of that is particularly true.

 

[Racer88]

The Crosby/MacKinnon pre season skates are intense as hell and it’s invitation only. The only invite guys they feel can keep up with that level of intensity. It’s not a leisure skate by any means.

The public perception of Marner isn’t ever going to be same as the players. They absolutely love the guy. The public doesn’t get to spend all day with Marner so the public can only go off what they see on TV. I think most players do agree Marner gets more shit than is deserved in Toronto but that’s what comes with the salary cap. But he’s a hell of a talent, everyone can see that, so can his peers. He’s just a little overpaid. But so is Willy and Auston.

Not sure why you and others feel like other players around the league need to lie for Marner or something lmao. There isn’t any incentive for them to speak out and defend him. They like him and think he’s a good player, that’s all that matters. If you don’t, you don’t. But to think there’s a secret agenda for Marner is outrageous.

I think some of us also think Marner gets more shit then is deserved. There are other underperforming highly paid players on this team that deserve equal shit.
However Marner seems to be the perfect storm.
Add up his contract negotiations, his soft soft play, his highlight mistakes in the playoff and the icing on the cake is his absolutely entirely delusional pressers including but not exclusively the “god” statement he is easy to dislike.
Some will say the pressers are meaningless but they are what people see of the players and as such are how many people make their opinions. Is this fair or not, who knows but it is reality.
Pressers have made or destroyed careers in more things then sports

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I think some of us also think Marner gets more shit then is deserved. There are other underperforming highly paid players on this team that deserve equal shit.

Matthews' open shot game doesnt translate into the playoffs.
Tavares is at the tail end of his UFA contract and plays like it.
Nylander produces at the level you'd expect him to, if not a bit more (especially relative to other underperformers).
Marner's game is NEVER going to reliably translate to the post season. Extending Marner is not how you win a Stanley Cup.

However Marner seems to be the perfect storm.

Add up his contract negotiations, his soft soft play, his highlight mistakes in the playoff and the icing on the cake is his absolutely entirely delusional pressers including but not exclusively the “god” statement he is easy to dislike.
Some will say the pressers are meaningless but they are what people see of the players and as such are how many people make their opinions. Is this fair or not, who knows but it is reality.
Pressers have made or destroyed careers in more things then sports

His hostage level overpay demands which his buddy Dubas game to him was just ridiculous. Any GM that signs that is a rookie. Marner scores against slower, weaker teams, with weak goalies, when there is lots of open ice.

Tre ain't paying.

Ditch Mitch.

 

[Torontonian]

So he is one of the best players in the league.
How many team or individual awards has he won.
How many records has he set……
I will wait

I will take the opinion of Nathan Mackinnon, another great NHL player, over the opinion of Race88, HFboard poster.

Over PPG in the NHL, he's a elite player just because he hasn't won or gotten a award.

 

[notbias]

So he is one of the best players in the league.
How many team or individual awards has he won.
How many records has he set……
I will wait

Draisaitl hasn't won an award in 4 years, is he no longer one of the best players?

I'll wait

 

[thewave]

Draisaitl hasn't won an award in 4 years, is he no longer one of the best players?

I'll wait

The thing about Drai is he isn't a stat padder.

 

[thusk]

You lost the argument about goals and points so you're moving the goalposts to selected assists?

I know you have a hate on for Nylander, but you really have to start to accept the facts.


None of that is particularly true.

You lost the argument about goals and points so you're moving the goalposts to selected assists?

I know you have a hate on for Nylander, but you really have to start to accept the facts.


None of that is particularly true.

let's watch the 7 secondary assist he had last 6

gm 2 vs tampa in 2023... get a pass in netral zone skate in free space until offensive zone, made a basic pass to rielly and missed the puck on the tip-in but that still giving a rebound for JT... so he recorded a pts for a missing play

2022 gm 6 matthews won a faceoff and nylander just push the puxk to gio a blue line

gm 4 vs mtl,
1-Nylander missed his cross crease pass to simmonds who been able to get the puck back and sent it to blue line. so an other pts for a missing play

2- holl made him a pass his leafs zone and nylander skate until neutral zone and made an easy cross crease pass in space to Muzzin... that's it... get a pts

gm 2 vs cbs, in defensive situation cbs foward tried a pass who accidentaly hit nylander, thats it secondary assist

gm 4, he skated in cbs zone with the puck... thats it

6 of 7 nylander secondary assist was a total gift where he did basically nothing. So if you want to give as much credit to those pts, its your choice but for me that doesn't have any value or this value is not higher than exemple a player winning a battle in the corner, create a screnn or making a defensive play to get the puck back... Every kind of play who dont come with any stats...It's kind of player than even a guy like reaves are able to do

Do you really want to tell me than all those play is what making nylander a better player in playoff!?!?!

 

[francis246]

The thing about Drai is he isn't a stat padder.

how is Marner a stat padder? now you're literally reaching. stat padding isn't even a real concept in the NHL. Stat padding doesn't translate in hockey like it does in basketball. How would one stat pad in the NHL besides scoring an empty net goal which our superstars don't do at an alarming rate. Scoring in the NHL is scoring, you can't stat pad LOL.

 

[ACC1224]

how is Marner a stat padder? now you're literally reaching. stat padding isn't even a real concept in the NHL. Stat padding doesn't translate in hockey like it does in basketball.

the stuff these guys say and then always remind us how there is no irrational hate.

 

[francis246]

the stuff these guys say and then always remind us how there is no irrational hate.

if anything there can be an argument made that the EDM boys are stat padders based on the amount of PP Points they get every year but even then I don't consider being good on the PP stat padding. It's simply just being very effective and excellent on the PP.

 

[thewave]

how is Marner a stat padder? now you're literally reaching. stat padding isn't even a real concept in the NHL. Stat padding doesn't translate in hockey like it does in basketball. How would one stat pad in the NHL besides scoring an empty net goal which our superstars don't do at an alarming rate. Scoring in the NHL is scoring, you can't stat pad LOL.

When he fires the puck off like it is explosive within 1/10th of a second because of the risk and the play routinely ends up with the recipient running into trouble and losing possession.

The weak shots from the perimeter that he routinely does for corsi.

The fact he bailed on the puck memelariously vs Boston and circles around to deliver a soft check.

Its the way he is. You know who carries the puck, plays wing, gets the zone, scores goals and lately will go into a corner some. William Nylander. Leads the team in ES points too.

MM pads stats and its hilarious to watch in the POs as he fails over and over. People wonder why he isn't respected around here very much at this point. People have had enough of the phony narratives and want results.

Nylander results.
Marner no results
Matthews results and rockets
JT no results

Pretty simple aint it. MM and JT take the flak. JT had to give up the C. MM aint signed.

Very telling

 

[francis246]

When he fires the puck off like it is explosive within 1/10th of a second because of the risk and the play routinely ends up with the recipient running into trouble and losing possession.

The weak shots from the perimeter that he routinely does for corsi.

The fact he bailed on the puck memelariously vs Boston and circles around to deliver a soft check.

Its the way he is. You know who carries the puck, plays wing, gets the zone, scores goals and lately will go into a corner some. William Nylander. Leads the team in ES points too.

MM pads stats and its hilarious to watch in the POs as he fails over and over. People wonder why he isn't respected around here very much at this point. People have had enough of the phony narratives and want results.

Nylander results.
Marner no results
Matthews results and rockets
JT no results

Pretty simple aint it. MM and JT take the flak. JT had to give up the C. MM aint signed.

Very telling

What does anything you described have to do with stat padding? nothing you described is stat padding LOL. Do you even know what stat padding is?

For example in basketball you intentionally miss shots off the rim to collect extra rebounds. What is the hockey equivalent of that?

Do you actually think any NHL player in mid play is saying to themselves, I need my corsi numbers to be high so I'ma shoot just cause. haha, what? I don't think any of these guys give 2 shits about their corsi numbers.

Additionally we already ran the numbers. Marner has the highest or 2nd highest primary assist numbers on the team.

If you are going to use a term such as stat padding (which doesn't even EXIST in hockey), at least back it up.

Additionally wtf has Nylander won in this league? Nothing. As far as I'm concerned Nylander and Marner are pretty even. Hence why I don't think Marner should make anything more than 11.5.

Tired of you guys rambling on about non-sense. We get it, you don't like him. But stat padding? In hockey never the less? pure lunacy.

 

[ACC1224]

What does anything you described have to do with stat padding? nothing you described is stat padding LOL. Do you even know what stat padding is?

For example in basketball you intentionally miss shots off the rim to collect extra rebounds. What is the hockey equivalent of that?

Additionally we already ran the numbers. Marner has the highest or 2nd highest primary assist numbers on the team.

If you are going to use a term such as stat padding (which doesn't even EXIST in hockey), at least back it up.

Additionally wtf has Nylander won in this league? Nothing. As far as I'm concerned Nylander and Marner are pretty even. Hence why I don't think Marner should make anything more than 11.5.

Tired of you guys rambling on about non-sense. We get it, you don't like him. But stat padding? In hockey never the less? pure lunacy.

Reminds me of that 'never go full Pejorative Slur' line in that movie. This place some days

 

[francis246]

When he fires the puck off like it is explosive within 1/10th of a second because of the risk and the play routinely ends up with the recipient running into trouble and losing possession.

The weak shots from the perimeter that he routinely does for corsi.

The fact he bailed on the puck memelariously vs Boston and circles around to deliver a soft check.

Its the way he is. You know who carries the puck, plays wing, gets the zone, scores goals and lately will go into a corner some. William Nylander. Leads the team in ES points too.

MM pads stats and its hilarious to watch in the POs as he fails over and over. People wonder why he isn't respected around here very much at this point. People have had enough of the phony narratives and want results.

Nylander results.
Marner no results
Matthews results and rockets
JT no results

Pretty simple aint it. MM and JT take the flak. JT had to give up the C. MM aint signed.

Very telling

When is it stat padding?

Has been discussed lately pertaining to guys like Gretzky and McDavid. I’m not asking about them specifically but in general. I’ve often thought empty net points or pp minutes in the 3rd of a blowout are stat padding but what about something like a 2 period breakaway in a 5-1 game? By those...

forums.hfboards.com

theres a whole thread on hfboards on it, the majority of people agreeing, people claim stat padding when they hate a player or when their team is getting lit up, but for the most part it, no one really thinks its real thing in hockey

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

What does anything you described have to do with stat padding? nothing you described is stat padding LOL. Do you even know what stat padding is?

For example in basketball you intentionally miss shots off the rim to collect extra rebounds. What is the hockey equivalent of that?

Do you actually think any NHL player in mid play is saying to themselves, I need my corsi numbers to be high so I'ma shoot just cause. haha, what? I don't think any of these guys give 2 shits about their corsi numbers.

Additionally we already ran the numbers. Marner has the highest or 2nd highest primary assist numbers on the team.

If you are going to use a term such as stat padding (which doesn't even EXIST in hockey), at least back it up.

Additionally wtf has Nylander won in this league? Nothing. As far as I'm concerned Nylander and Marner are pretty even. Hence why I don't think Marner should make anything more than 11.5.

Tired of you guys rambling on about non-sense. We get it, you don't like him. But stat padding? In hockey never the less? pure lunacy.

Do the Leafs ever run a trap? No.

Even in a 6-1 blowout are Marner and the rest of the stars still on the ice late in the game trying to score? Yes.

Do the Leafs play an all offense all the time philosophy with the intention to bury the opponent under as many pucks as possible? Yes.

Do they have two evenly matched power play units that split the minutes and opportunity fairly? No.

Everything the Leafs do is designed to maximize the core four stats.

This isn't exclusive to Marner. It's not an individual effort to pad ones stats. But rather a systemic effort that beefs the numbers of ALL the stars.

While exciting to watch it has not proven effective in the playoffs when it matters most.

 

[thewave]

What does anything you described have to do with stat padding? nothing you described is stat padding LOL. Do you even know what stat padding is?

For example in basketball you intentionally miss shots off the rim to collect extra rebounds. What is the hockey equivalent of that?

Do you actually think any NHL player in mid play is saying to themselves, I need my corsi numbers to be high so I'ma shoot just cause. haha, what? I don't think any of these guys give 2 shits about their corsi numbers.

Additionally we already ran the numbers. Marner has the highest or 2nd highest primary assist numbers on the team.

If you are going to use a term such as stat padding (which doesn't even EXIST in hockey), at least back it up.

Additionally wtf has Nylander won in this league? Nothing. As far as I'm concerned Nylander and Marner are pretty even. Hence why I don't think Marner should make anything more than 11.5.

Tired of you guys rambling on about non-sense. We get it, you don't like him. But stat padding? In hockey never the less? pure lunacy.

Yes.

MM plays a game that ensures that his personal stats look good over team results. His game lends itself to self preservation and his demands on the team are that he play with a rocket winner. His camp made sure that happened. Matthews was performing better when MM was out. Imagine my shock.

Playoff performances abysmal. Matthews away from the weak perimeter winger in the POs are better.

He single handedly neutered the coach player hierarchy when he threw babs under the bus. We got saddled with Keefe that let them play bs stat padding hockey every regular season and then fail every PO when it got rough.

You may say he is equal to WN at 11.5m but in reality I would sooner have the money from he and JT to get help on D and another C.

 

[Arzak]

The thing about Drai is he isn't a stat padder.

There is an art in trying your hardest when both teams stop playing.

And it's not just that, the moment you notice his prolonged possession followed by giving the puck away to the opposition goalie (can't call that a shot, despite what corsi thinks) you can't un-see why he is advanced stats darling.

But hey, his expected goals per 60 are only beaten by his cap hit.

Yes.

MM plays a game that ensures that his personal stats look good over team results. His game lends itself to self preservation and his demands on the team are that he play with a rocket winner. His camp made sure that happened. Matthews was performing better when MM was out. Imagine my shock.

Playoff performances abysmal. Matthews away from the weak perimeter winger in the POs are better.

He single handedly neutered the coach player hierarchy when he threw babs under the bus. We got saddled with Keefe that let them play bs stat padding hockey every regular season and then fail every PO when it got rough.

You may say he is equal to WN at 11.5m but in reality I would sooner have the money from he and JT to get help on D and another C.

It's also important to point out Styles can drive his own line. Something we don't even dare to try with Mitch

 

[francis246]

Do the Leafs ever run a trap? No.

Even in a 6-1 blowout are Marner and the rest of the stars still on the ice late in the game trying to score? Yes.

Do the Leafs play an all offense all the time philosophy with the intention to bury the opponent under as many pucks as possible? Yes.

Do they have two evenly matched power play units that split the minutes and opportunity fairly? No.

Everything the Leafs do is designed to maximize the core four stats.

This isn't exclusive to Marner. It's not an individual effort to pad ones stats. But rather a systemic effort that beefs the numbers of ALL the stars.

While exciting to watch it has not proven effective in the playoffs when it matters most.

That is not stat padding though, that is exactly what you said in your post. Maximizing the ability to score. That is the point of hockey, outscore your opponent and stop them from scoring more than you in order to win. Putting your players in position to succeed offensively is hardly stat padding. Every team in the NHL does that, does Kucherov end up with 150+ points if Tampa doesn’t do that?

But I see your point. To me being good offensively isn’t a negative, so I don’t know why we have people here trying to spin it that way. (Not that you are, I think you did a good job trying to explain it in a way that makes sense) but the wave has no idea what stat padding is, he’s going off about lack of playoff performance yet conflating that with stat padding it’s confusing.

 

[francis246]

Yes.

MM plays a game that ensures that his personal stats look good over team results. His game lends itself to self preservation and his demands on the team are that he play with a rocket winner. His camp made sure that happened. Matthews was performing better when MM was out. Imagine my shock.

Playoff performances abysmal. Matthews away from the weak perimeter winger in the POs are better.

He single handedly neutered the coach player hierarchy when he threw babs under the bus. We got saddled with Keefe that let them play bs stat padding hockey every regular season and then fail every PO when it got rough.

You may say he is equal to WN at 11.5m but in reality I would sooner have the money from he and JT to get help on D and another C.

1. I agree that moving on from Marner could be beneficial to the team this off-season. He and JT’s cap dollars can be reallocated to help improve the team.

2. Marner didn’t throw Babcock under the bus. Babcock did that himself. Mitch was asked to rank the teams effort by player. Babcock then showed that list to the entire roster as a motivation tactic. The players got pissed off at Mitch initially until it was revealed that Babcock tricked him by saying it would be confidential. Even after Babcock did what he did to Mitch, it was kept quiet by the organization and Mitch for 2 / 3 additional years. It happened in Mitch’s rookie season. Even if you dislike Mitch that is a f***ed up thing for a coach to do to a rookie 19 year old. No one threw Babcock under the bus, he’s a dickhead. That’s why he lasted 5 minutes in Columbus.

 

[IPS]

2. Marner didn’t throw Babcock under the bus. Babcock did that himself. Mitch was asked to rank the teams effort by player. Babcock then showed that list to the entire roster as a motivation tactic. The players got pissed off at Mitch initially until it was revealed that Babcock tricked him by saying it would be confidential. Even after Babcock did what he did to Mitch, it was kept quiet by the organization and Mitch for 2 / 3 additional years. It happened in Mitch’s rookie season. Even if you dislike Mitch that is a f***ed up thing for a coach to do to a rookie 19 year old. No one threw Babcock under the bus, he’s a dickhead. That’s why he lasted 5 minutes in Columbus.

To this day I'm wondering why of all the youngins on the team, it was Mitch who Babcock picked to pull that BS on.

 

[francis246]

To this day I'm wondering why of all the youngins on the team, it was Mitch who Babcock picked to pull that BS on.

Only Babcock can answer, but I'll take a stab.

I think because Mitch was bright eyed and an easy target. Mitch is not an alpha, Babcock wouldn't dare do that to Willy, his dad played in the NHL. Babcock wasn't gonna do it to the 1st overall pick Matthews and he liked Connor Brown and Hyman. Mitch was probably the only one who would be naive enough to actually do it and maybe dumb enough to believe it would be confidential. I also think he probably asked Mitch because Mitch was a bit closer to the vets at the time, so I think it would just hit the vets different coming from Mitch. Which was the reaction Babcock wanted.

 

[IPS]

Only Babcock can answer, but I'll take a stab.

I think because Mitch was bright eyed and an easy target. Mitch is not an alpha, Babcock wouldn't dare do that to Willy, his dad played in the NHL. Babcock wasn't gonna do it to the 1st overall pick Matthews and he liked Connor Brown and Hyman. Mitch was probably the only one who would be naive enough to actually do it and maybe dumb enough to believe it would be confidential. I also think he probably asked Mitch because Mitch was a bit closer to the vets at the time, so I think it would just hit the vets different coming from Mitch. Which was the reaction Babcock wanted.

Makes sense. Just for the record I'm not siding with Babcock on it, I couldn't stand him when he was coaching the Leafs.