Does Marner get Boo’d?

[Nineteen67]

King of no context.

Cap ceiling was lower. It’s about Cap percentages. Any player that signs for a percentage in that range will have a salary higher than MacKinnon because the cap ceiling has gone up. Think before you post Mess.

Which is why 53% of the cap on four similar players is hard to overcome.

 

[francis246]

Which is why 53% of the cap on four similar players is hard to overcome.

I don’t disagree

 

[Nineteen67]

If anyone could actually be affected by booing it might be marner

I think he’s OK with it. He can’t possibly look anymore disinterested than he did in the last two playoffs. He’ll been fine in the regular season and then shelter himself during playoff week.

 

[ToneDog]

Which is why 53% of the cap on four similar players is hard to overcome.

If you factor in that Tanev only plays 3 years @ $27m, it is 50.2%. LOL.

 

[Mess]

Which is why 53% of the cap on four similar players is hard to overcome.

Its a death sentence to your Stanley Cup aspirations.

Smart teams win Cups First and then reward their players for their success financially, while Leafs pay their struggling playoff performers like their Champions First, and ask what went wrong?

Marner's mouth writing cheques his butt can't cash, as his endless disappointing playoff performances validate.

For the past 5 years + current Marner has had the 7th highest contract in the NHL, there can't be more than a handful of people on the entire planet that believe Marner is worth every penny, and now due a nice raise. Even Dubas the GM that gave him that ridiculous overpaid 2nd contract openly admits it his biggest regret from the fallout of the Tavares signing.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Boo him!!! Boo him!!! Boo him!!!

Ma-a-arner... Ma-a-arner... Ma-a-arner...

Make him cry on the ice this time. Like Bart and Lisa did to Daryl Strawberry. He can wipe the tears away with all that well earned money he has.

Keeping this guy on the team would be a horrible mistake.

Yeah, ok, he's a hundred point wing man who can set up plays. Someone who can compliment a franchise centre like Matthews well. Too bad that's the only good thing about him.

Otherwise all I see is a snotty rich kid.

With a snotty rich kid attitude. And a snotty rich kid face begging for a punch. And that's exactly what he's gonna get in the playoffs again this year.

If he's still on the team that is.

 

[Enga Olly]

Yep. I can't help but think of Kessel, who was absolutely putrid defensively too. That didn't stop him from absolutely taking over playoff series after playoff series while he was in his prime.

Such a shame he led the Leafs to a only 1 PO appearance in his 6 years here. That 48 game season he did have 6 points in 7 games, which is pretty darn good but my memory has it him not moving the needle much on leading the Leafs to deep PO runs or Stanley Cups. I could be wrong though.

 

[Mess]

King of no context.

Cap ceiling was lower. It’s about Cap percentages. Any player that signs for a percentage in that range will have a salary higher than MacKinnon because the cap ceiling has gone up. Think before you post Mess.

You want Context ??

How many players have a higher AAV / Salary than Nate MacKinnon? .. Only 1 Auston Matthews.

You might be the only person that believes Marner and Matthews should be the 2 highest paid players in game. Think before you post francis246.

Do you know the difference between a UFA contact and an RFA contract?

Leafs signed Tavares as a UFA for $11 mil AAV and CH% of 13.84%

Leafs signed Marner as an RFA for $10.9 mil AAV with a CH% of 13.37%

The difference the past 5 years has been a CH% of -0.47 % and $500k total ..

What that means is Marner's current contract which is over inflated at a UFA rate, should be his new upcoming contract in reality. Even at that rate he's is still the 12th highest paid player in the game. Which is still a poor rate of return considering Marner has never won an trophy nor award personally nor success as a team.

I'm hoping our NEW GM is not going to make this same mistake again and double down on over-payment as "Two wrongs don't make a right" !!! .

 

[Arzak]

You want Context ??

How many players have a higher AAV / Salary than Nate MacKinnon? .. Only 1 Auston Matthews.

You might be the only person that believes Marner and Matthews should be the 2 highest paid players in game. Think before you post francis246.

Do you know the difference between a UFA contact and an RFA contract?

Leafs signed Tavares as a UFA for $11 mil AAV and CH% of 13.84%

View attachment 899232

Leafs signed Marner as an RFA for $10.9 mil AAV with a CH% of 13.37%

View attachment 899233

The difference the past 5 years has been a CH% of -0.47 % and $500k total ..

What that means is Marner's current contract which is over inflated at a UFA rate, should be his new upcoming contract in reality. Even at that rate he's is still the 12th highest paid player in the game. Which is still a poor rate of return considering Marner has never won an trophy nor award personally nor success as a team.

I'm hoping our NEW GM is not going to make this same mistake again and double down on over-payment as "Two wrongs don't make a right" !!! .

Well said.


It's insanity before you realize it's RFA contract.


We overpaid for Nylander,but his previous contract was a steal and he made significantly less money over his Leaf career, he had his the best performance in contract year playing with Domi.Signed UFA contract.


Mitch on the other hand is riding the most ridiculous contract in RFA history, glued to Matthews, all we hear about is the amount of assists Mitch collects.

 

[Notsince67]

Since I've been watching them since the 60s, and haven't missed a hand in years, I doubt you've seen more.

I did not say Nylander was a more valuable player (at least in this particular topic), so I'm not sure why you introduced something irrelevant, instead of staying on topic.


It might be better fof the Leafs if he leaves as a UFA.

YOU are the one who said "Willy's contract should be the ceiling, not the floor".
Lets not gaslight. It's pretty clear what you communicated.

 

[francis246]

You want Context ??

How many players have a higher AAV / Salary than Nate MacKinnon? .. Only 1 Auston Matthews.

You might be the only person that believes Marner and Matthews should be the 2 highest paid players in game. Think before you post francis246.

Do you know the difference between a UFA contact and an RFA contract?

Leafs signed Tavares as a UFA for $11 mil AAV and CH% of 13.84%

View attachment 899232

Leafs signed Marner as an RFA for $10.9 mil AAV with a CH% of 13.37%

View attachment 899233

The difference the past 5 years has been a CH% of -0.47 % and $500k total ..

What that means is Marner's current contract which is over inflated at a UFA rate, should be his new upcoming contract in reality. Even at that rate he's is still the 12th highest paid player in the game. Which is still a poor rate of return considering Marner has never won an trophy nor award personally nor success as a team.

I'm hoping our NEW GM is not going to make this same mistake again and double down on over-payment as "Two wrongs don't make a right" !!! .

No one thinks Marner should be paid more than those two and that wasn’t my argument. My argument is that you bring up MacKinnons contract as a baseline for players in general when that contract is now 2/3 years old. Every time the cap goes up, the percentage a player takes also increases. No one actually believes the leafs are gonna give Marner a 12.5 contract. Would he get that on the open market? I’m not sure. But you can’t compare a 3 year old contract to present time and say that no one should make more than that. That’s not the way contracts work in a system where the cap rises. The top dog will be the top dog for max a year or two before another contract who is expiring tops it.

 

[notbias]

Lets hope you're right.

Nathan MacKinnon has a Stanley Cup, a Lady Byng Trophy,a Hart Trophy, a Ted Lindsay Award, and a Calder Trophy to his name while Marner has ZERO of the above and NO awards since entering the NHL.

MacKinnon coming off his Cup win signed for $12.6 mil. Marner wants to get paid like one of the best players and top centers in the game.

Lets hope Leafs do the right thing here.

Never uses CH%, and expects anyone to take him seriously, always such a Mess.

The expected cap is around 92.5 million, the equivalent MacKinnon contract is around $14 million in that environment.

Its a death sentence to your Stanley Cup aspirations.

Smart teams win Cups First and then reward their players for their success financially, while Leafs pay their struggling playoff performers like their Champions First, and ask what went wrong?

Except the most recent cup winning team, or the team before them, or the team before them...

Most players get raises because they improved, not because they won a cup

 

[IPS]

Never uses CH%, and expects anyone to take him seriously, always such a Mess.

The expected cap is around 92.5 million, the equivalent MacKinnon contract is around $14 million in that environment.



Except the most recent cup winning team, or the team before them, or the team before them...

Most players get raises because they improved, not because they won a cup

Not always. Kane's 88 point season on his ELC stood as his career high all the way up until he signed his big $10.5 x 8 contract.

Playoff success was absolutely a factor in getting that contract, ditto for Toews. Wasn't the entire reason but it sure was a prominent part.

 

[notbias]

Not always. Kane's 88 point season on his ELC stood as his career high all the way up until he signed the his big $10.5 x 8 contract.

Playoff success was absolutely a factor in getting that contract, ditto for Toews. Wasn't the entire reason but it sure was a prominent part.

Okay, so one team has been smart according to Mess then.

His contract was the equivalent of almost $9 million x 5 when Marner signed.

It's why I said "most" and not all in my statement.

 

[Mess]

Well said.


It's insanity before you realize it's RFA contract.


We overpaid for Nylander,but his previous contract was a steal and he made significantly less money over his Leaf career, he had his the best performance in contract year playing with Domi.Signed UFA contract.


Mitch on the other hand is riding the most ridiculous contract in RFA history, glued to Matthews, all we hear about is the amount of assists Mitch collects.

** Winger ** is not a primary position its a secondary building block where Centres, Dmen and Goalies take higher priority when building from the goalie out through strong defense, and strength down the middle,

Marner is a soft small non physical style player who has a weak shot and requires his teammates to put pucks in net to drive his points (assists) and thus his contract evaluation. Kucherov is also a winger but he puts up 144 points (100 assists) and makes $9.5 mil. Lets see Marner put up 44 goals 100 assists to earn a double digit salary, otherwise that is his contract ceiling. Never mind Tax Free state, because Marner doesn't statistically come close to Kuch, particularlly in the playoffs where he lead them in playoff scoring during 2 Cup wins.

Any player making double digit salary needs to be his own line driver to validate that contract and Marner needs to be pinned to hip of #1C Matthews or Tavares to fuel and drive his points.

Marner is essentially Robin to the teams Batman and a secondary figure in importance... In no real World should this guy be paid like an elite #1C centre like Matthews or MacKinnon or McDavid for being a teams sidekick.

How many points would Marner produce if he was playing on a line with Jarnkrok -- Domi -- Marner and attempt to drive his OWN line?

If we never had that incompetent clueless Dubas as GM we wouldn't be in this situation if our former GM understood the difference between and RFA team cost controllable contract and a open market UFA contract.

I'm hoping when the dust settles after this season that the Leafs only have 2 X double digit players Matthews and Nylander and they use their Cap space more efficiently to build a strong deep team and not top heavy team.

PS. I also realize that MLSE is in this for the money and the foolishness in which they're willing to pay Marner, doesn't come out of their pockets, but rather the fans/season ticket holders pocket for the price of addmission and because MLSE charges the highest prices for admission they also feel they need to validate those cost by putting name players on the ice to price gouge the fan base, taking advanatge of the situation.

 

[Mess]

Not always. Kane's 88 point season on his ELC stood as his career high all the way up until he signed the his big $10.5 x 8 contract.

Playoff success was absolutely a factor in getting that contract, ditto for Toews. Wasn't the entire reason but it sure was a prominent part.

Toews and Kane had won 3 X Stanley Cups in 2010, 2013 and 2015 before their $10.5 mil contracts kicked in and then Hawks struggle to even make the playoffs.

Chicago Blackhawks center Jonathan Toews kisses the Stanley Cup trophy during a rally on June 18, 2015, at Soldier Field in Chicago celebrating the team's third NHL title in six years.

 

[notbias]

Any player making double digit salary needs to be his own line driver to validate that contract and Marner needs to be pinned to hip of #1C Matthews or Tavares to fuel and drive his points.

This can sum up Mess' entire lack of knowledge of the Leafs... Marner got his contract by being a line driver... Do you think the guy who led the team in points and helped Tavares get his career-best season is the passenger?

It's hard even to skim your posts because they lack any original thoughts or a general understanding of the team, I don't know how anyone reads them.

 

[Arzak]

Toews and Kane had won 3 X Stanley Cups in 2010, 2013 and 2015 before their $10.5 mil contracts kicked in and then Hawks struggle to even make the playoffs.

Chicago Blackhawks center Jonathan Toews kisses the Stanley Cup trophy during a rally on June 18, 2015, at Soldier Field in Chicago celebrating the team's third NHL title in six years.

View attachment 899254

View attachment 899256

This.

Kane and Toews were a lethal duo that already won Chicago 3 (THREE) Cups. We were told Mitch is as good, we sign him now, Cups will come in bunches !!!

 

[Arzak]

No one thinks Marner should be paid more than those two and that wasn’t my argument. My argument is that you bring up MacKinnons contract as a baseline for players in general when that contract is now 2/3 years old. Every time the cap goes up, the percentage a player takes also increases. No one actually believes the leafs are gonna give Marner a 12.5 contract. Would he get that on the open market? I’m not sure. But you can’t compare a 3 year old contract to present time and say that no one should make more than that. That’s not the way contracts work in a system where the cap rises. The top dog will be the top dog for max a year or two before another contract who is expiring tops it.

Exactly.

It's fair to compare 6 years old RFA @ 11M contract to 12.5M UFA contract signed 3 years ago.

You have correct facts, your conclusion on the other hand. Very biased. Why are you so hanged on the fact that MC signed his contract 3 years ago, when we are discussing 7-year-old atrocity?


A couple of posters keep climbing on their high horse just to look like a sore thumb.

 

[francis246]

Exactly.

It's fair to compare 6 years old RFA @ 11M contract to 12.5M UFA contract signed 3 years ago.

You have correct facts, your conclusion on the other hand. Very biased. Why are you so hanged on the fact that MC signed his contract 3 years ago, when we are discussing 7-year-old atrocity?


A couple of posters keep climbing on their high horse just to look like a sore thumb.

What? I don’t think comparing contracts is smart at all. It makes no sense to. Even with Marner’s contract. I don’t think he should be exempt from that either. Looking at previous contracts and comparing them to new ones makes no sense because of the fact that the cap increases. Same with Auston’s, Auston will be the highest for this season but then Draisaitl will overtake him, then McDavid will overtake Draisaitl the following. Then eventually Bedard. Because they all expire at different times and as the cap goes up, more superstars will push the ceiling for higher cap percentages with ever the growing salary cap.

The best player in the league will rarely be the highest paid player, that has more to do with your contract expiring as the cap goes up compared to actually being compensated for being the best. If they end up being the highest it would be for no more than a year or two before they are overtaken by the next big star who is up for a new contract.

 

[francis246]

This.

Kane and Toews were a lethal duo that already won Chicago 3 (THREE) Cups. We were told Mitch is as good, we sign him now, Cups will come in bunches !!!

Again what does that have to do with the players? That’s on management for failing to put a team together during the ELC years and for overpaying their RFA’s. The only two people fans should be pissed off at is Dubas and Shanahan. They handed out the contracts. They didn’t take advantage of Nylander, Marner and Matthews RFA years. It’s the GM’s job to manage the cap, not the players.

 

[Sundinisagod]

No one thinks Marner should be paid more than those two and that wasn’t my argument. My argument is that you bring up MacKinnons contract as a baseline for players in general when that contract is now 2/3 years old. Every time the cap goes up, the percentage a player takes also increases. No one actually believes the leafs are gonna give Marner a 12.5 contract. Would he get that on the open market? I’m not sure. But you can’t compare a 3 year old contract to present time and say that no one should make more than that. That’s not the way contracts work in a system where the cap rises. The top dog will be the top dog for max a year or two before another contract who is expiring tops it.

Worth noting, Marner's current cap hit % on the projected 92.5 million salary cap would be about 12.367m so just a token ch% raise would take him to 12.5m.

 

[Sypher04]

Worth noting, Marner's current cap hit % on the projected 92.5 million salary cap would be about 12.367m so just a token ch% raise would take him to 12.5m.

Yeah, it’d be pretty surprising if a Marner extension comes in under 12 imo. He may have to go to market just so free agency can somewhat correct his AAV. It seems unlikely he’s going to take a cap percentage reduction from his previous contract to stay.

 

[Hellcat]

Again what does that have to do with the players? That’s on management for failing to put a team together during the ELC years and for overpaying their RFA’s. The only two people fans should be pissed off at is Dubas and Shanahan. They handed out the contracts. They didn’t take advantage of Nylander, Marner and Matthews RFA years. It’s the GM’s job to manage the cap, not the players.

Bingo, the team had options they could either pay what Marner was asking or trade him, not rocket surgery. If you as an employee dont ask for the moon when you have the chance, you are being taken advantage of period end of sentence. Close childhood friend of mine was making around $60k, he had a job offer from a new company, he didn't want to leave his old company but the money at the new company was good, I gave him some advise on how he should word his resignation letter. He took my advise, his boss in a panic came forward and said what do you need to stay here, I gave him some more advise and his boss ended up offering him $103k plus some other perks. I know the industry and know what people are getting paid for similar jobs. After hearing what his salary was, I knew he was under paid and knew he was just a really good dude that was happy to have a job and didn't know his value to the company. Morale of the story is if you dont ask you don't get. I know every year when its raise time, I fight for every last penny.

If your boss came to you and said hey we are going to give you a 30% bump in pay are you going to say no that is OK, I need to make sure there is money left for other people? I'd tell him to make it 50%.

Worth noting, Marner's current cap hit % on the projected 92.5 million salary cap would be about 12.367m so just a token ch% raise would take him to 12.5m.

I've been saying for a while now that Marner is signing for $12.56 mil/yr.

 

[francis246]

Worth noting, Marner's current cap hit % on the projected 92.5 million salary cap would be about 12.367m so just a token ch% raise would take him to 12.5m.

As I said I don’t think he’s getting it from the leafs. I think on the open market there’s def a chance but I think the leafs will offer 11.5. A matching Nylander deal. It will be a true test of how bad Marner wants to be a leaf I think push comes to shove he potentially takes that deal to stat a leaf. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes to market either.