Does Marner get Boo’d?

[Nineteen67]

Caught 1, but we all expected to catch him.

 

[Mess]

I like this guy already

Luke Schenn recent comments,

Schenn was also asked about Berube replacing Sheldon Keefe and what he brings to the Leafs, based on the time Schenn spent playing under Berube when they were both with the Philadelphia Flyers from 2013 to 2015.

"He's a great coach," said Schenn. "He says it like it is, there's no sugar coating with him. He's what you want in a coach or, for me at least, personally. He's black and white, no grey area; you know where he stands all the time. If you're not playing well, he'll let you know. I think it's good, and it'll be good in that market as well."​

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Luke Schenn recent comments,

Schenn was also asked about Berube replacing Sheldon Keefe and what he brings to the Leafs, based on the time Schenn spent playing under Berube when they were both with the Philadelphia Flyers from 2013 to 2015.

We’ll know right away if any of that is just fluff if he has to walk back comments like Keefe did because the core went crying to their mommies.

 

[ULF_55]

We’ll know right away if any of that is just fluff if he has to walk back comments like Keefe did because the core went crying to their mommies.

Well, he could just be another coach who the Leafs pay to stay away if he hurts their feeling too harshly.

 

[francis246]

I wonder what happened to him(Marner) . Maybe Keefe’s system messed him up. The Leafs are banking on Berube changing things and maybe they’re right, but if they’re wrong…yikes.

I think accountability pretty much went out the window. I think Marner knew if he didn’t play hard with Babcock and Hunter his minutes would be reduced. He didn’t have that same fear with keefe.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I think I might boo him from my couch. Who's going to stop me?

 

[notDatsyuk]

I’m not sure if this was meant as a joke or not, but yes, he really should especially last year

We had that domi-Matthews-bertuzzi line buzzing and being a problem for the end of the season so they didn’t need anyone really.

Give nylander and elite setup man and see if he can’t replicate that Montreal series level of goalscoring. The only problem is Tavares, he’s not fit to play in any top 6 capacity, but especially not with these two. Although it wasn’t a line for the entire series, but whenever Tavares was with those two which happened a bit from my memory, he couldn’t keep up and make plays.

People need to go back and watch this Boston series, Tavares might’ve costed us 10-15 zone entries alone on the pp. he’d waste 30 seconds of the pp everytime. He didn’t make a single play that made you think “yea this is a top 6 C. This is the guy we’ve gotten to compliment nylander/Marner”. He got a puck from Matthews and slap shotted it in, and he got around a Boston defender (that guy shouldn’t play hockey after that) and shoveled a puck at the speed of a fart on net. He didn’t set anyone up, he had multiple breaks/open shots which he blew the f*** out of, and then there’s the pp entries I mentioned before. Tavares looked like a washed Jordan staal without the pk duties out there. He should’ve been relegated to fourth line but we had no options at Center

I went a bit off point, but yes Marner and nylander should play together. Marner can make up for nylanders defensive game, and maybe nylander can make up for marners lack of shooting pucks towards the net. Who knows, maybe nylanders playmaking would help Marner get better chances vs Matthews who isn’t as good.

Well said. Leave Domi with Matty and put Willy at 2C. Since they're almost certainly still here this coming season, play Mitch on Willy's right and JT at 3C.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Craig Berube's past run-ins with star players raise some concerns in Toronto​

New Leafs bench boss Craig Berube's bluntness has caused issues with star players in the past, which leads to concerns about how the "Core 4" will handle his style.​

The fact that it was star players that had issues with Berube may not bode well for Auston Matthews, William Nylander, Mitch Marner and John Tavares in Toronto, given how many times we saw former head coach Sheldon Keefe have to walk back his public comments when he criticized them.

Craig Berube's past run-ins with star players raise some concerns in Toronto

New Leafs bench boss Craig Berube's bluntness has caused issues with star players in the past, which leads to concerns about how the Core 4 will handle his style.

www.mapleleafsdaily.com

Prior to Philly, Lecavalier was a career .84 ppg. In Philly he went to .54 to .35 to .14.

Maybe Berube was right to sit him? If Tavares had been on a 28 point pace (and trending for a -10) midway through last season, would anyone blame Keefe for sitting him?

If he's calling out players for lack of effort, GOOD! I don't see JT having a problem with it (effort isn't his issue). The way Willy has been showing more effort, I don't think it will be much of an issue. Matty and especially Mitch may get their knickers in a knot, but I have no problem with that.

 

[Racer88]

I think accountability pretty much went out the window. I think Marner knew if he didn’t play hard with Babcock and Hunter his minutes would be reduced. He didn’t have that same fear with keefe.

That would be my guess too

 

[Confucius]

I wonder what happened to him(Marner) . Maybe Keefe’s system messed him up. The Leafs are banking on Berube changing things and maybe they’re right, but if they’re wrong…yikes.

For sure Keefe was the problem, there is no other explanation why a team of 19 and 20 year olds got no better as 25 year olds

 

[Confucius]

Our fanbase has been propping up Hyman as some amazing goal scorer and top forward, I am glad we can finally all agree Hyman is super overrated.



McDavid can't win the cup, chokes in the biggest game of his career, exclude him from this list of difference makers and proven winners.

Who is more of a proven winner, Marner or McDavid? Curious to see who has the better record of championships.

8 goals in his last 25 elimination games, the best player in hockey… lol

Marner has 6, the difference is huge and undeniable…

How Many Points Does Connor Mcdavid Have In Elimination Playoff Games | StatMuse

Connor McDavid posted 0 points versus the Panthers on June 24.

www.statmuse.com

 

[Racer88]

Agreed, I think some of Marner’s best playoff performances were with Babcock and Hunter. I actually think Marner plays way better under a more demanding coach. So I’m looking forward to how he plays under Berube

So correct me if I’m wrong but I read that as he needs a strict boss to keep him motivated and working hard.

 

[ACC1224]

Luke Schenn recent comments,

Schenn was also asked about Berube replacing Sheldon Keefe and what he brings to the Leafs, based on the time Schenn spent playing under Berube when they were both with the Philadelphia Flyers from 2013 to 2015.

Seems like that would be a bigger issue with Nylander and his tendency to show disinterest at times. Hopefully the quitting on plays won’t be acceptable to Berube as it was with Keefe.
Lazy and disinterest have never been Marners flaws.

 

[Racer88]

Seems like that would be a bigger issue with Nylander and his tendency to show disinterest at times. Hopefully the quitting on plays won’t be acceptable to Berube as it was with Keefe.
Lazy and disinterest have never been Marners flaws.

 

[Hellcat]

My man, I’d like for you to sit down while you read this so this can be easily digested.

No one is arguing that.

1) Matthews plays the more valuable, hardest to fill position as a 1 c, and is setting records while doing it. He’s not going anywhere. And shouldn’t.
2) Nylander just signed a long term deal. He’s not going anywhere.
3) JT is on an expiring deal, and if he returns will be at a large discount.

Marner negotiated himself into being the odd man out. Marner will be demanding a raise. We need to move on to improve the team, Marner fan or not.

No one is arguing that? You may need to sit down to read the Marner thread, this is exactly what some people are saying. Why would you boo one guy and not the other three for the collective failures of a TEAM if you are not blaming one guy?

1) Agree
2) This is non sequitur, having 7 years left on your contract or having 1 has no bearing on if you stay or if you go.
3) I would hope so and he will return as a winger.

 

[Hellcat]

Seems like that would be a bigger issue with Nylander and his tendency to show disinterest at times. Hopefully the quitting on plays won’t be acceptable to Berube as it was with Keefe.
Lazy and disinterest have never been Marners flaws.

..but Marner's diet is terrible... what do you say about that?

 

[francis246]

So correct me if I’m wrong but I read that as he needs a strict boss to keep him motivated and working hard.

I wouldn’t say strict, but someone who’s on him yes. And that really isn’t a foreign concept in sports. All players are different, some really thrive off coaches who are hard on them and really challenge them and don’t let up off of that. Some players thrive better off more passive coaches who are more supportive and not as hard nosed. Just in following Marner’s career, Keefe was the first coach who kind of let him do whatever. That never happened with Dale or Babcock. So it’s pretty clear what type of coach Marner needs. Someone who is a bit more demanding, someone who is fair but holds him to a high standard.

This shouldn’t really be a surprise, Marner isn’t the first or only guy in pro sports who needs this type of coach. JT Miller is another guy who is similar.

 

[ACC1224]

..but Marner's diet is terrible... what do you say about that?

No idea but I doubt it's terrible. Sounds like another one of those made up things.
I haven't seen him eat since he was a little kid but I'm sure like most high end athletes he eats really well.

I wouldn’t say strict, but someone who’s on him yes. And that really isn’t a foreign concept in sports. All players are different, some really thrive off coaches who are hard on them and really challenge them and don’t let up off of that. Some players thrive better off more passive coaches who are more supportive and not as hard nosed. Just in following Marner’s career, Keefe was the first coach who kind of let him do whatever. That never happened with Dale or Babcock. So it’s pretty clear what type of coach Marner needs. Someone who is a bit more demanding, someone who is fair but holds him to a high standard.

This shouldn’t really be a surprise, Marner isn’t the first or only guy in pro sports who needs this type of coach. JT Miller is another guy who is similar.

It not only impacts him but also the Players around him. Game is easier when everyone is playing the right way.

 

[Hellcat]

IMHO , I think the game plan is to:

1) Let Marner walk, and sign Draisaitl and I think it will be a bigger cap hit than Marner's.
2) If Drai signs with Edmonton between now and July 1st, sign Marner to a long termer during the season. He was always our guy
3) If Drai signs as a UFA, anywhere but Toronto, bend over and let Marner's camp take us to the ringer. Post July 1st, if Marner makes it to UFA status, there will be a butt hurt tax the Leafs will need to pay, prob + 5% to 10% on what we would have had to pay if we signed him before he hit UFA status.
3) Let JT walk and in 2 years sign McDavid.

McDavid/Drai
AM/Nylander

Pretty nasty 1, 2 punch on the top 2 lines.

 

[francis246]

No idea but I doubt it's terrible. Sounds like another one of those made up things.
I haven't seen him eat since he was a little kid but I'm sure like most high end athletes he eats really well.


It not only impacts him but also the Players around him. Game is easier when everyone is playing the right way.

Keefe literally had no structure/identity to his coaching. I did not love Babcock as a coach but his teams have structure, they play a certain style and every line operates the same way. There was no confusion about where you needed to be our what our breakouts would look like. That is something the leafs struggled with under Keefe. No structure, no identity, just go out there and and keep possession and look for an opportunity to score. You can’t win like that in any sport. Players need direction, they need a system they can revert to at all times. And most of all players need to be highly motivated by the coach. Never once did I hear the players say they would run through a wall for Keefe. But we heard that for Babcock despite what a jackass he was.

 

[Hellcat]

For sure Keefe was the problem, there is no other explanation why a team of 19 and 20 year olds got no better as 25 year olds

The coach was a meat head ?

No idea but I doubt it's terrible. Sounds like another one of those made up things.
I haven't seen him eat since he was a little kid but I'm sure like most high end athletes he eats really well.


It not only impacts him but also the Players around him. Game is easier when everyone is playing the right way.

but he's struggled .... 100 point pace seasons two years in a row... kinda suck ...no?

 

[Mess]

Agreed, I think some of Marner’s best playoff performances were with Babcock and Hunter. I actually think Marner plays way better under a more demanding coach. So I’m looking forward to how he plays under Berube

Except the one thing you're missing is the Babcock understood Marner was a soft, small perimeter forward and sheltered him and buried him deep down the line-up.

Under Babcock

Year #1

Hyman -- Matthews --- Nylander/Brown
Marleau -- Kadri ------- Nylander/Brown
JVR ------ Bozak ------- Marner

Year #2

Hyman -- Matthews --- Nylander
Marleau -- Kadri ------- Marner/ Connor Brown
JVR ------ Bozak ------- Marner/Connor Brown

This was all about creating easier matchups and keeping Marner away from top line players or shutdown checkers or top pairing DMan, as he would only play 3rd and 2nd line opponents and 2nd/3rd pairing Dmen.

Marner played his best playoff hockey when sheltered and playing a DEPTH position against easier composition matchups.

Under Keefe

1st line : Hyman -- Matthews -- Nylander/Marner or 2nd line: XXXX - Tavares -- Marner

Marner was always pinned to the hip of an elite #1OA franchise Centre and now goes up against the top opposition & top shutdown checkers or top pairing Defense pairing.

Marner became invisible and ineffective in the playoffs.

Was never the style of the Coach it was the player usage of the Coach that determined the outcome. !!!!!

I suspect Berube that loves to play a big physical heavy game will again attempt to bury Marner down the line-up and shelter him against easier line-up/match-up competition, fully understanding Marner's style of play is not suitable for top line and top opposition in the playoffs.

 

[IPS]

They're still comparing Marner and McDavid

Just stop already

 

[Mess]

People act like Marner coming under heavy criticism coming off a poor playoff performance in 2023-24 was an anomaly.

Those same people must have short memories of Marner's playoff failure ... After signing his ridiculous overpaid 2nd contract he went on to go ** 18 playoff games ** without scoring a goal spread across 4 playoff years, In comparison to the regular season 18 games without a goal is almost a 1/4 of an NHL regular season for a player with a TOP 7 overall highest salary,

Against Boston in 2018-19.. Marner scores 2 goals in game #1 and then held SCORELESS in games #2-7 as Leafs lose in 7 games in round #1.

Against Columbus in 2019-20 .. Leafs lose best of 5 series as Marner goes SCORELESS in series.

Against Montreal in 2020-21 in all CDN Div Marner goes SCORELESS in series and Leafs lose while up in series 3-1.

Not until game #1 of the 2021-22 series against TB did Marner record another goal in the playoffs.

All 3 of those series losses were in part to Marner complete ineffectiveness and lack of goal scoring recording a mere 4 points in 3 consecutive series ALL LOSSES for Toronto.

The organization understands this and that is why they would love to move on from him .... Marner has scored a mere 11 goals across 8 playoff years and 9 playoff series. This being one of the highest paid players in the game and expected to be a difference maker.. He is a difference maker alright for all the wrong reasons benefiting the opposition more than the Leafs.

 

[Arzak]

They're still comparing Marner and McDavid

Just stop already

Doubling down on doubling down. It's all Keefe, mean fans,Bettman, media asking pesky questions. Otherwise man is McJesus double !


Just like McDavid, but elite on PK ( I know, our PK is mid to bad, but Mitchs reputation never suffers, he elite on PK!!).