Does Marner get Boo’d?

[notbias]

Decided to post in this thread since @Hellcat seemed to miss me. judging by him wanting to talk Marner with me in threafs not about Marner.

For a playmaker first, who apparently shouldnt be judged on goals and who scores much less than the players around him and above him. Additiionally plays with arguably the leagues 2nd best center....Marners scoring chance assist per game (2.28) seems kind of on the low end.

View attachment 897405

Tkachuk's seems super low... that is what stood out... he scored as much as Marner in 11 more games.

Same with Hughes...

 

[Antropovsky]

Tkachuk's seems super low... that is what stood out... he scored as much as Marner in 11 more games.

Same with Hughes...

Hughes was shut down for surgery, which I think he was trying to play through for much of the season.

Tkachuk had two 40+ goal seasons prior and 11 in the playoffs. I think Panther fans would agree that he woild be judged on goal scoring ability.

Isnt this what we keep being told? Marner shouldnt be judged on goals because hes an elite playmaker? The elite passers are mich higher than him AND score more. Hes closer to M.Tkachuk than the elite playmakers judgung by these stats.

 

[notbias]

Hughes was shut down for surgery, which I think he was trying to play through for much of the season.

Tkachuk had two 40+ goal seasons prior and 11 in the playoffs. I think Panther fans would agree that he woild be judged on goal scoring ability.

Isnt this what we keep being told? Marner shouldnt be judged on goals because hes an elite playmaker? The elite passers are mich higher than him AND score more. Hes closer to M.Tkachuk than the elite playmakers judgung by these stats.

The GPG has been 0.45 for Tkachuk and 0.41 for Marner over the last 3 years.

I was just pointing out that I was surprised about someone like Tkachuk who doesn't score as much as one would expect...

I am making no judgment, just pointing out something I thought was interesting.

Can you get the stats over the last 3 years? One year seems too small of a sample for established players. I don't think Kucherov is repeating last season.

Assuming McDavid stays number one and Kucherov number two, but can see someone like Panarin moving up, just curious though.

 

[Antropovsky]

The GPG has been 0.45 for Tkachuk and 0.41 for Marner over the last 3 years.

I was just pointing out that I was surprised about someone like Tkachuk who doesn't score as much as one would expect...

I am making no judgment, just pointing out something I thought was interesting.

Can you get the stats over the last 3 years? One year seems too small of a sample for established players. I don't think Kucherov is repeating last season.

Assuming McDavid stays number one and Kucherov number two, but can see someone like Panarin moving up, just curious though.

Understood. My point is that certain posters have continuously argued Marner shouldnt be judged on his lack of playoff goals or poor goal related advanced stats because hes a playmaker. Im making the point that he should. Like you said Tkachuk and Marner are close in ggoals scored in season but in playoffs, Tkatchuk would pace 27 goals in 82 games while Marner would be 15.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Forget boo’ing, throw waffles at him!

*for some of you who need clarification, this is a joke.

 

[notbias]

Understood. My point is that certain posters have continuously argued Marner shouldnt be judged on his lack of playoff goals or poor goal related advanced stats because hes a playmaker. Im making the point that he should. Like you said Tkachuk and Marner are close in ggoals scored in season but in playoffs, Tkatchuk would pace 27 goals in 82 games while Marner would be 15.

That still is terrible for Tkachuk... my argument has always been Tkachuk is not a good playoff performer, but the success of his team has hidden that.

I don't think Marner should be judged primarily for goal-scoring, but it does factor into his play, and he has been poor in a lot of series and deserves criticism.

I think the general argument is that Marner has had some good/great series as well and the blame is way too much.

I still have faith in the player, I know most don't but the hate towards him seems insane to me...

Matthews is the best playoff performer followed by Rielly, then Marner and Nylander are close for 3rd, but I don't see how Marner gets singled out so much, maybe it is recency bias, not sure.

 

[socko]

Understood. My point is that certain posters have continuously argued Marner shouldnt be judged on his lack of playoff goals or poor goal related advanced stats because hes a playmaker. Im making the point that he should. Like you said Tkachuk and Marner are close in ggoals scored in season but in playoffs, Tkatchuk would pace 27 goals in 82 games while Marner would be 15.

And these same posters will talk about how Marner has more points in the playoffs and thus was the best player. No mention of how the entire team vastly underachieved in the playoffs. How the guy who gets way too much ice time based on his play sucks the life out of the teams offense because he wants to hang around the perimeter and play dipsey doodle. No, no mention of that. Just how he has the most points. Even though the team offense totally sucks. And we can't judge him on his goal output because he's a playmaker. Dubas fan logic at its best.

 

[Racer88]

That still is terrible for Tkachuk... my argument has always been Tkachuk is not a good playoff performer, but the success of his team has hidden that.

I don't think Marner should be judged primarily for goal-scoring, but it does factor into his play, and he has been poor in a lot of series and deserves criticism.

I think the general argument is that Marner has had some good/great series as well and the blame is way too much.

I still have faith in the player, I know most don't but the hate towards him seems insane to me...

Matthews is the best playoff performer followed by Rielly, then Marner and Nylander are close for 3rd, but I don't see how Marner gets singled out so much, maybe it is recency bias, not sure.

I would hazard a guess that he gets singled out because of his pressers where he appears offended if the interviewer even hints that he needs to be better…….and then there’s the “Gods” fiasco presser.
It may seem silly but that stuff rubs the fan base the wrong way especially when the team craps the bed in the playoffs 8 years running.

 

[Racer88]

Decided to post in this thread since @Hellcat seemed to miss me. judging by him wanting to talk Marner with me in threafs not about Marner.

For a playmaker first, who apparently shouldnt be judged on goals and who scores much less than the players around him and above him. Additiionally plays with arguably the leagues 2nd best center....Marners scoring chance assist per game (2.28) seems kind of on the low end.

View attachment 897405

Aren’t scoring chance assists kinda like a lottery ticket. I bought one and didn’t win…….but I might of

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner and the Leafs are a match made in heaven.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Actually true.

He still needs to be moved.

He's not a part of the Leaf's future.

 

[Arzak]

View attachment 897574

Actually true.

He still needs to be moved.

He's not a part of the Leaf's future.

Bruh he is like fusion. Always year (decade) away from delivering!


100 point season incoming? Ten years in a row someone will be making the same prediction, just to talk about pacing in the offseason

 

[Nineteen67]

That still is terrible for Tkachuk... my argument has always been Tkachuk is not a good playoff performer, but the success of his team has hidden that.

I don't think Marner should be judged primarily for goal-scoring, but it does factor into his play, and he has been poor in a lot of series and deserves criticism.

I think the general argument is that Marner has had some good/great series as well and the blame is way too much.

I still have faith in the player, I know most don't but the hate towards him seems insane to me...

Matthews is the best playoff performer followed by Rielly, then Marner and Nylander are close for 3rd, but I don't see how Marner gets singled out so much, maybe it is recency bias, not sure.

They’re all very poor playoff performers but Marner is singled out because he’s had two very disappointing playoffs in a row, and his contract is expiring. When you watch him and hear veteran analyst use the word disinterested to describe his play, you have to ask does he care or is he incapable?

 

[notbias]

They’re all very poor playoff performers but Marner is singled out because he’s had two very disappointing playoffs in a row, and his contract is expiring. When you watch him and hear veteran analyst use the word disinterested to describe his play, you have to ask does he care or is he incapable?

Ask ROR, he cited his compete level as a reason he wanted to play with him.

He also had two disappointing rounds, not playoffs.

 

[Nineteen67]

Ask ROR, he cited his compete level as a reason he wanted to play with him.

He also had two disappointing rounds, not playoffs.

Do you think his compete level was sufficient this year or last year?

 

[notbias]

Do you think his compete level was sufficient this year or last year?

I think it is idiotic to speculate from the stands... he looked like he was trying, but maybe he wasn't.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think it is idiotic to speculate from the stands... he looked like he was trying, but maybe he wasn't.

Maybe it’s ability, or lack thereof? Either way is concerning.

 

[notDatsyuk]

For someone who loved Toronto and loved playing with Marner, ROR sure ran away as soon as possible.

 

[Bust]

The GPG has been 0.45 for Tkachuk and 0.41 for Marner over the last 3 years.

I was just pointing out that I was surprised about someone like Tkachuk who doesn't score as much as one would expect...

I am making no judgment, just pointing out something I thought was interesting.

Can you get the stats over the last 3 years? One year seems too small of a sample for established players. I don't think Kucherov is repeating last season.

Assuming McDavid stays number one and Kucherov number two, but can see someone like Panarin moving up, just curious though.

So Marner, who only really valuable for the points he puts up, gets out pointed (both reg season and playoffs) by a player who plays a pest/power game all while being literally hunted by the opposing team, takes a ton of abuse, drops the mitts, chirps, gets into scrums, ext.

Oh, and you’re also telling me that player signed for less money, for longer term. And has been to the finals. And won a cup. This is why fans are on Marners case.


Also, I notice a lot of your judgment seems to be decided on points, as you’ve stated above,

“

That still is terrible for Tkachuk... my argument has always been Tkachuk is not a good playoff performer, but the success of his team has hidden that.

Tkachuk is a huge reason as to why the panthers have team success, probably the sole reason for actually becoming what they currently are. You cannot just look at stats and make blanket statements on players. Tkachuk is overall a much better hockey player than Marner. This is so much more than raw point totals. Tkachuk is still a factor even if he’s at 0 G, 0 A - Marner, not so much.

 

[notbias]

So Marner, who only really valuable for the points he puts up, gets out pointed (both reg season and playoffs) by a player who plays a pest/power game all while being literally hunted by the opposing team, takes a ton of abuse, drops the mitts, chirps, gets into scrums, ext.

Oh, and you’re also telling me that player signed for less money, for longer term. And has been to the finals. And won a cup. This is why fans are on Marners case.


Also, I notice a lot of your judgment seems to be decided on points, as you’ve stated above,

“

Tkachuk is a huge reason as to why the panthers have team success, probably the sole reason for actually becoming what they currently are. You cannot just look at stats and make blanket statements on players. Tkachuk is overall a much better hockey player than Marner. This is so much more than raw point totals. Tkachuk is still a factor even if he’s at 0 G, 0 A - Marner, not so much.

The argument for players like Tkachuk is always "You can't quantify it, just trust me"

 

[AvroArrow]

The argument for players like Tkachuk is always "You can't quantify it, just trust me"

It's called watching the games and seeing the impact guys have on their teammates, off the ice, on the bench etc. A style of game they play, most people don't understand it, they can only stare at a stat sheet

 

[57 Years No Cup]

It's called watching the games and seeing the impact guys have on their teammates, off the ice, on the bench etc. A style of game they play, most people don't understand it, they can only stare at a stat sheet

You have to understand that Marner supporters are all of the Politically Correct Mindset that abhors the Toxic Masculinity of the playoffs when the effort ramps up and players that want to win give their all.... sometimes, they might even "cross the line".

The soft Euro Hockey lovers hate that.

 

[mikeyz]

You have to understand that Marner supporters are all of the Politically Correct Mindset that abhors the Toxic Masculinity of the playoffs when the effort ramps up and players that want to win give their all.... sometimes, they might even "cross the line".

The soft Euro Hockey lovers hate that.

They really are of the politically correct mindset. I didn't realize or pick up on it until I read your post. LOL

 

[IPS]

You have to understand that Marner supporters are all of the Politically Correct Mindset that abhors the Toxic Masculinity of the playoffs when the effort ramps up and players that want to win give their all.... sometimes, they might even "cross the line".

The soft Euro Hockey lovers hate that.

Yeah I learned this after the Nazem Kadri incidents where he was the only player with the balls to fight fire with fire when the Bruins were taking runs at the Leafs players all night.

Was honestly shocked at how many fans opted to sanctimoniously berate Kadri instead of seeing the incident for what it actually was. Was the cherry on top was when the superior and better ran organization in Colorado decided to take on Kadri and won the cup with him.

Mind you it is Toronto, probably more weak men here per capita than anywhere else on earth.

 

[mikeyz]

Yeah I learned this after the Nazem Kadri incidents where he was the only player with the balls to fight fire with fire when the Bruins were taking runs at the Leafs players all night.

Was honestly shocked at how many fans opted to sanctimoniously berate Kadri instead of seeing the incident for what it actually was. Was the cherry on top was when the superior and better ran organization in Colorado decided to take on Kadri and won the cup with him.

Mind you it is Toronto, probably more weak men here per capita than anywhere else on earth.

Ohhhh I couldn’t agree with you more on this point. I live in Toronto and I see it everyday.