Does Marner get Boo’d?

[Stephen]

The Leafs have done just fine without Marner in the lineup whenever he's been injured. They will continue to do just fine without him altogether. Running this guy out of town should be priority number one to initiate change.

If that means booing him off the team the fans will do it.

I find Brendan Shanahan's reluctance to part with his golden generation to be little strange when he was the one who had the gumption to come in and rebuild this whole program up from scratch.

He could easily have reached into personal Detroit Red Wings lore and said "look, sometimes it takes a big move to get over the hump" and pointed out the Coffey/Primeau for Shanahan deal.

He could have diffused the high stakes feel of trading one of them by framing it as a hockey trade and toned down the team of destiny level belief he had in the core.

The whole Marner thing feels like small market NBA stuff when a team is so scared they're going to lose their star. Sometimes big moves are made. Life goes on.

 

[Racer88]

I find Brendan Shanahan's reluctance to part with his golden generation to be little strange when he was the one who had the gumption to come in and rebuild this whole program up from scratch.

He could easily have reached into personal Detroit Red Wings lore and said "look, sometimes it takes a big move to get over the hump" and pointed out the Coffey/Primeau for Shanahan deal.

He could have diffused the high stakes feel of trading one of them by framing it as a hockey trade and toned down the team of destiny level belief he had in the core.

The whole Marner thing feels like small market NBA stuff when a team is so scared they're going to lose their star. Sometimes big moves are made. Life goes on.

Leaf management all the way to the top are paralyzed with fear of making a change, even when the overwhelming evidence shows it’s needed

 

[Arzak]

Is this a general Marner thread?

Booo if not

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I find Brendan Shanahan's reluctance to part with his golden generation to be little strange when he was the one who had the gumption to come in and rebuild this whole program up from scratch.

He could easily have reached into personal Detroit Red Wings lore and said "look, sometimes it takes a big move to get over the hump" and pointed out the Coffey/Primeau for Shanahan deal.

He could have diffused the high stakes feel of trading one of them by framing it as a hockey trade and toned down the team of destiny level belief he had in the core.

The whole Marner thing feels like small market NBA stuff when a team is so scared they're going to lose their star. Sometimes big moves are made. Life goes on.

"This is not a gut job".

Shanahan's reluctance to make a major move extends to the previous core as well. As soon as Salutegate happened Shanahan should have been tanking for McDavid. Instead he waivered and insisted on competing that first year.

Reactive instead of proactive with the results to show for it.

 

[Hellcat]

I suppose there are idiots in every fan base, some will boo him, sure. Just like Sundin got booed, Gill got booed, McCabe (the first McCabe) got booed, Murphy got booed and so on and so on. No matter how illogical it is to pin the failings of a GM, Coaching staff and a team of 20ish plus players on just one player, fans ignore logic, reasoning and common sense and go for the Jugular. When the team as a whole is performing at less than reasonable level, the less than nuanced fans always pick out one player and will direct all their anger towards one not the entire team just one, it's a Leaf tradition. Does it make sense, no, does it accomplish anything, no, but lets not purposeful thoughtful expression get in the way of and angry mob mentality.... the great thing about this country is everyone gets to express their opinion no matter how vapid it might be.

"This is not a gut job".

Shanahan's reluctance to make a major move extends to the previous core as well. As soon as Salutegate happened Shanahan should have been tanking for McDavid. Instead he waivered and insisted on competing that first year.

Reactive instead of proactive with the results to show for it.

IIRC Leafs had the best odds to win the 1st over all pick in McDavid's year...

 

[ACC1224]

I suppose there are idiots in every fan base, some will boo him, sure. Just like Sundin got booed, Gill got booed, McCabe (the first McCabe) got booed, Murphy got booed and so on and so on. No matter how illogical it is to pin the failings of a GM, Coaching staff and a team of 20ish plus players on just one player, fans ignore logic, reasoning and common sense and go for the Jugular. When the team as a whole is performing at less than reasonable level, the less than nuanced fans always pick out one player and will direct all their anger towards one not the entire team just one, it's a Leaf tradition. Does it make sense, no, does it accomplish anything, no, but lets not purposeful thoughtful expression get in the way of and angry mob mentality.... the great thing about this country is everyone gets to express their opinion no matter how vapid it might be.



IIRC Leafs had the best odds to win the 1st over all pick in McDavid's year...

Team sports are hard.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I suppose there are idiots in every fan base, some will boo him, sure. Just like Sundin got booed, Gill got booed, McCabe (the first McCabe) got booed, Murphy got booed and so on and so on. No matter how illogical it is to pin the failings of a GM, Coaching staff and a team of 20ish plus players on just one player, fans ignore logic, reasoning and common sense and go for the Jugular. When the team as a whole is performing at less than reasonable level, the less than nuanced fans always pick out one player and will direct all their anger towards one not the entire team just one, it's a Leaf tradition. Does it make sense, no, does it accomplish anything, no, but lets not purposeful thoughtful expression get in the way of and angry mob mentality.... the great thing about this country is everyone gets to express their opinion no matter how vapid it might be.



IIRC Leafs had the best odds to win the 1st over all pick in McDavid's year...

The Leafs finished 4th overall the year McDavid was drafted.

It was the following year, when they won the Matthews lottery, they finished last place and had the best odds to win the draft.

 

[Hellcat]

The Leafs finished 4th overall the year McDavid was drafted.

It was the following year, when they won the Matthews lottery, they finished last place and had the best odds to win the draft.

Right it was Buffalo that got F-ed.. I thought it came down to Edmonton and Toronto, Edmonton finished 3rd worse and Toronto finished 4th worse.

Team sports are hard.

So is rationale thought but I see a lot of Leaf fans when challenged to be rationale ... saying "Hold my beer... I can out stupid anyone else."

 

[IPS]

but I see a lot of Leaf fans when challenged to be rationale ... saying "Hold my beer... I can out stupid anyone else."

Yeah like the ones comparing Marner and McDavid in the playoffs.

Sorry don't think anyone is going to out stupid that one anytime soon.

 

[Hellcat]

Leaf management all the way to the top are paralyzed with fear of making a change, even when the overwhelming evidence shows it’s needed

Which is a statement in itself, if you don't think you can make the right decision for something you are paid to do, it's time to leave your job. You are not qualified for that job. I'm surprised that a company like MLSE, that is full of inflated ego's and narcissists, that they are afraid to make a decisions. IMO that reporter who leaked that story is projecting. I know people in the Org, from what they tell me, the picture they color is, it is a vipers den of backstabbing and chest thumping and dick measuring contests every day. There is no way they are afraid to make a decision. My guess, knowing the environment, is one guy with the golden ring has decided that this is the way it is, this is the way it is going to be. Case closed. IMO It is entirely a ego power trip thing why changes have not been made.

Yeah like the ones comparing Marner and McDavid in the playoffs.

Sorry don't think anyone is going to out stupid that one anytime soon.

I dunno focusing all one's hate on one player in a team sport where the team has collectively failed is pretty stupid dont you think?

 

[notDatsyuk]

So is rationale thought but I see a lot of Leaf fans when challenged to be rationale ... saying "Hold my beer... I can out stupid anyone else."

I dislike being pedantic, and I'm not sure if it's a mistake or auto(in)correct, but there's a huge difference between 'rational' and 'rationale'. I'm pretty sure you meant 'rational', although in a weird way 'rationale' almost fits better.

 

[Hellcat]

I dislike being pedantic, and I'm not sure if it's a mistake or auto(in)correct, but there's a huge difference between 'rational' and 'rationale'. I'm pretty sure you meant 'rational', although in a weird way 'rationale' almost fits better.

I respect you more for being pedantic, I make typos a lot, I meant with an e ... their, there, they're are use so poorly in this forum, it drives my OCD mind nuts.

 

[francis246]

The Leafs finished 4th overall the year McDavid was drafted.

It was the following year, when they won the Matthews lottery, they finished last place and had the best odds to win the draft.

The leafs had the best odds to get McDavid in 2015. Coming 4th has nothing to do with it. After the first 3 balls for the lottery were drawn, the leafs had the best odds because they had the most combinations based on the first 3 balls being drawn. That’s why people felt the Draft was rigged for EDM to win because EDM winning was like a 1 in 100 chance to happen and it happened.

But yes the leafs when it was all said and done, the Leafs 100% had the best odds to draft McDavid. Came down to one ball and we weren’t lucky enough to have that final number be one of the many left in the pot that would have secured McDavid for us.

 

[Arzak]

Yeah like the ones comparing Marner and McDavid in the playoffs.

Sorry don't think anyone is going to out stupid that one anytime soon.

I don't know, they compared him to Crosby recently, his Wayne like playmaking also legendary

 

[notDatsyuk]

The leafs had the best odds to get McDavid in 2015. Coming 4th has nothing to do with it. After the first 3 balls for the lottery were drawn, the leafs had the best odds because they had the most combinations based on the first 3 balls being drawn. That’s why people felt the Draft was rigged for EDM to win because EDM winning was like a 1 in 100 chance to happen and it happened.

But yes the leafs when it was all said and done, the Leafs 100% had the best odds to draft McDavid. Came down to one ball and we weren’t lucky enough to have that final number be one of the many left in the pot that would have secured McDavid for us.

I think you two are arguing different things.

At the start of the lottery, Toronto had the fourth best odds, as they finished fourth last.

After the first three balls were drawn, they had the best odds of winning based on the last ball.

I think there's a conspiracy among conspiracy nuts to conspire to create conspiracies about creating conspiracies. The fact that an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of keyboards have not produced that exact sentence is proof.

 

[Hellcat]

I don't know, they compared him to Crosby recently, his Wayne like playmaking also legendary

Wayne wishes....

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The leafs had the best odds to get McDavid in 2015. Coming 4th has nothing to do with it. After the first 3 balls for the lottery were drawn, the leafs had the best odds because they had the most combinations based on the first 3 balls being drawn. That’s why people felt the Draft was rigged for EDM to win because EDM winning was like a 1 in 100 chance to happen and it happened.

But yes the leafs when it was all said and done, the Leafs 100% had the best odds to draft McDavid. Came down to one ball and we weren’t lucky enough to have that final number be one of the many left in the pot that would have secured McDavid for us.

Going INTO the lottery, before any balls were drawn, the Buffalo Sabres had the best odds at drafting McDavid with a 25% chance.

 

[francis246]

Going INTO the draft the Buffalo Sabres had the best odds at drafting McDavid with a 25% chance.

We understand that. No one is taking about going into the draft lottery. We are talking about what actually took place during the draft lottery. Which was as the draft lottery was conducted the Leafs ended up having the best odds to draft McDavid anyways. So whether they finished dead last or fourth last, they weren’t in any worse position. Finishing fourth put them in a better position to get McDavid than finishing last would have from a technical stand point.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

We understand that. No one is taking about going into the draft lottery. We are talking about what actually took place during the draft lottery. Which was as the draft lottery was conducted the Leafs ended up having the best odds to draft McDavid anyways. So whether they finished dead last or fourth last, they weren’t in any worse position. Finishing fourth put them in a better position to get McDavid than finishing last would have from a technical stand point.

I was talking about going into the lottery.

The fact a technicality eventually gave them the best odds is irrelevant and has nothing to do with tanking in attempt to deliberately engineer obtaining the best odds in the first place.

 

[Leafs98]

He won't get boo'd because he will have an outstanding season. It will confuse alot. But he's gonna be motivated. He'll sign. Just hopeful for a different play in playoffs. Just my opinion but I see this coming.

 

[Rals]

He won't get boo'd right away. But when he eventually leaves. He is going to get hated hard his return to Toronto.

 

[Racer88]

He won't get boo'd because he will have an outstanding season. It will confuse alot. But he's gonna be motivated. He'll sign. Just hopeful for a different play in playoffs. Just my opinion but I see this coming.

Soooooo his 11 million dollar pay cheque has not been motivating already?
He is only motivated when it’s time to get a new higher contract………anyone else see a problem with this

 

[Antropovsky]

Decided to post in this thread since @Hellcat seemed to miss me. judging by him wanting to talk Marner with me in threafs not about Marner.

For a playmaker first, who apparently shouldnt be judged on goals and who scores much less than the players around him and above him. Additiionally plays with arguably the leagues 2nd best center....Marners scoring chance assist per game (2.28) seems kind of on the low end.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Decided to post in this thread since @Hellcat seemed to miss me. judging by him wanting to talk Marner with me in threafs not about Marner.

For a playmaker first, who apparently shouldnt be judged on goals and who scores much less than the players around him and above him. Additiionally plays with arguably the leagues 2nd best center....Marners scoring chance assist per game (2.28) seems kind of on the low end.

View attachment 897405

Is there a whole bunch of people missing between Kucherov and Marner?

Because otherwise this chart shows him as third in the league behind only arguably the two best players in the game today.

I'm not sure it's proving the point you are hoping to make.

 

[Antropovsky]

Is there a whole bunch of people missing between Kucherov and Marner?

Because otherwise this chart shows him as third in the league behind only arguably the two best players in the game today.

I'm not sure it's proving the point you are hoping to make.

.... oh so now were all in agreement that Marner doesnt scratch the surface ofthe best playmakers in the league? So does this mean he should be judged on goals too?