Does Marner get Boo’d?

[notDatsyuk]

Such a stale talking point. I find it hard to criticize Marner when he has produced the most in the post season out of the core 4.

"Marner: 54 GP 49 PTS Matthews: 54 GP 47 PTS Tavares: 59 GP 45 PTS Nylander: 51 GP 40 PTS Rielly: 54 GP 38 PTS"

He has sucked but somehow managed to out produce the highest goal scorer and former Hart winner Matthews and midol-less Nylander who has been good lately but he doesn't exactly play a well rounded game.. Tavares has been an anchor in the top 6 for time and no one wants to be real about it and sugar coat his clutch moments and "going to the dirty areas in the trenches" even though he's a terrible slow forechecker and can't throw a hit if his life depended on it. But ok keep up the chatter.

I'm always a little surprised at how people can be so critical of Tavares, and at the same time give no consideration to the idea that his weaker play has any effect on Nylander's numbers.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Bruising is probably dependent on different factors. How trauma occurred, maybe even force or velocity of trauma and if other muscles ligaments were also injured in combination with the high ankle sprain. So you could be right. I just know the pain is crazy and goes from ankle to leg. Either way I don’t think it had a huge impact on his play either. And if it did, it wasn’t noticeable. I’m sure he wasn’t 100% but he was good enough to play so it can’t be used as an excuse at the end of the day.

I'm surprised that the bruising, if it's from the ankle sprain, would still be that obvious after about a month(?). I know everyone is different, but I've had some really nasty bruises, and they pretty much disappear in a week or two. And I'm in pretty good shape for 71, but I'm no pro athlete!

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Such a stale talking point. I find it hard to criticize Marner when he has produced the most in the post season out of the core 4.

"Marner: 54 GP 49 PTS Matthews: 54 GP 47 PTS Tavares: 59 GP 45 PTS Nylander: 51 GP 40 PTS Rielly: 54 GP 38 PTS"

He has sucked but somehow managed to out produce the highest goal scorer and former Hart winner Matthews and midol-less Nylander who has been good lately but he doesn't exactly play a well rounded game.. Tavares has been an anchor in the top 6 for time and no one wants to be real about it and sugar coat his clutch moments and "going to the dirty areas in the trenches" even though he's a terrible slow forechecker and can't throw a hit if his life depended on it. But ok keep up the chatter.

I think this entire thread, along with most of the talk about Marner is stale

Both sides have gone back and forth with each other and it’s clear both aren’t going to see eye to eye.

I’m not gonna say he doesn’t get more hate than Matthews and nylander because that’d be a lie, so I’ll just say that’s not what I do, I criticize all 3, well 4 of the core 4.

I just think bringing up his regular season stats really don’t show anything, because that’s not where the criticism lie, it’s the playoffs. That exact sentence can be used against the other 3 too, although I wouldn’t say Tavares has been what was expected as a regular season player either.

 

[Hellcat]

It's just not the right mix of playing styles. Marner and Matthews have at least attempted to round out their games and be more two way. Nylander blows the zone like he's at the Olympic speed skating trials. He rarely does his job in our end and never catches a shred of flak for it. He is a solid player and competes but I am not happy with him sometimes when he chooses to float when hes in one of his moods.

Tavares is the biggest mistake our club has made in decades.

Matthews is the man don't fk with Papi. His failures are on those around him not from his lack of ability IMO. It is what it is.

View attachment 900515

I'm just psyched to see how all 4 will perform under Berube now that the Dubas/Keefe era is officially over.

I think the pacing might slow down but the team will be more successful. I feel Keefes system promoted individual success, I think Berube is a more team first type of coach.

I'm surprised that the bruising, if it's from the ankle sprain, would still be that obvious after about a month(?). I know everyone is different, but I've had some really nasty bruises, and they pretty much disappear in a week or two. And I'm in pretty good shape for 71, but I'm no pro athlete!

Yup, it could, depending on how big it was before that.

I don’t care whether Mitch is a leaf or not. I’ve had other favourite players that have been traded or left the team. I’ve been just fine. I do think the narrative being pushed on this board is outrageous though. I personally blame every player on this team equally and I know what you’re gonna say. “We aren’t blaming Mitch alone” yeah a bunch of you are. That’s what the last 3 Mitch Marner threads have literally been about.

I’m not against trading Mitch or moving on from him, but I don’t think it’s gonna solve anything unless the way the team as a whole plays changes. I don’t think it’s a personnel issue as much as it is a systems issue. Them losing Game 7’s points to it being more of a systems issue too. So we’ll see how this year goes.

Great post, it's how I feel too.

 

[Hellcat]

I'm always a little surprised at how people can be so critical of Tavares, and at the same time give no consideration to the idea that his weaker play has any effect on Nylander's numbers.

Agree, JT is still an elite face off guy and still effective along the boards, he just moves as fast as a tree

 

[notDatsyuk]

Agree, JT is still an elite face off guy and still effective along the boards, he just moves as fast as a tree

I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate! Snail yes, tree no.

It seems to me that he has great hands as long as his feet aren't moving at the same time.

 

[ToneDog]

I think this entire thread, along with most of the talk about Marner is stale

Both sides have gone back and forth with each other and it’s clear both aren’t going to see eye to eye.

I’m not gonna say he doesn’t get more hate than Matthews and nylander because that’d be a lie, so I’ll just say that’s not what I do, I criticize all 3, well 4 of the core 4.

I just think bringing up his regular season stats really don’t show anything, because that’s not where the criticism lie, it’s the playoffs. That exact sentence can be used against the other 3 too, although I wouldn’t say Tavares has been what was expected as a regular season player either.

It has been said before. Tavares was supposed to help us win a cup or two in the first half of that contract and the back half would be painful. Unfortunately he was no better than the 3 amigos and now we have one year of pain left. People should be bitching that these 4 losers could not get it done vs Boston, CBJ, Montreal and Tampa the first 4 years of the Tavares deal.

I'm surprised that the bruising, if it's from the ankle sprain, would still be that obvious after about a month(?). I know everyone is different, but I've had some really nasty bruises, and they pretty much disappear in a week or two. And I'm in pretty good shape for 71, but I'm no pro athlete!

Nylander got his money playing with Tavares. His problem is not so much JT, it is that he went back to his old ways once he signed. The guy still has some maturing to do. Bitching at Mitch in game #4 was good to see.

 

[Antropovsky]

It's just not the right mix of playing styles. Marner and Matthews have at least attempted to round out their games and be more two way. Nylander blows the zone like he's at the Olympic speed skating trials. He rarely does his job in our end and never catches a shred of flak for it. He is a solid player and competes but I am not happy with him sometimes when he chooses to float when hes in one of his moods.

Tavares is the biggest mistake our club has made in decades.

Matthews is the man don't fk with Papi. His failures are on those around him not from his lack of ability IMO. It is what it is.

View attachment 900515

I'm just psyched to see how all 4 will perform under Berube now that the Dubas/Keefe era is officially over.

Marner was blowing the zone cheating for breakaways often last season too. He scored many goals doing it.

Dont forget Marner plays majority of his mins with a big dominant, 2 way center. Matthews was a Selke finalist last season. Nylander hardly plays with Matthews. Comparing line combos with Nylander vs Marner; lines with Nylander were more offensive, and only marginaly worse defensively.

Knies Matthews Marner:
xgf 3.16, Xga 2.23
Knies Matthews Nylander:
xgf: 3.72, xga 2.29

Bertuzzi Tavares Marner
xgf 2.44, Xga 2.73
Bertuzzi Tavares Nylander
xgf 3.37, Xga 2.59

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nylander got his money playing with Tavares. His problem is not so much JT, it is that he went back to his old ways once he signed. The guy still has some maturing to do. Bitching at Mitch in game #4 was good to see.

I'm sorry, but what has this to do with my post about Marner's bruise?

 

[ToneDog]

I'm sorry, but what has this to do with my post about Marner's bruise?

Meant to reply to your previous quote.

I'm always a little surprised at how people can be so critical of Tavares, and at the same time give no consideration to the idea that his weaker play has any effect on Nylander's numbers.

 

[Craig Button]

I guess you missed the pic when he met Berube well after the series ended (3 weeks), Still blackened calf. I can only imagine what it looked like when the series began.

The bruise went up his leg and past his knee too.

Looks gross poor kid. Came back too soon from the injury but what can you do?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think this entire thread, along with most of the talk about Marner is stale

Both sides have gone back and forth with each other and it’s clear both aren’t going to see eye to eye.

I’m not gonna say he doesn’t get more hate than Matthews and nylander because that’d be a lie, so I’ll just say that’s not what I do, I criticize all 3, well 4 of the core 4.

I just think bringing up his regular season stats really don’t show anything, because that’s not where the criticism lie, it’s the playoffs. That exact sentence can be used against the other 3 too, although I wouldn’t say Tavares has been what was expected as a regular season player either.

Playoff performance comes down to having 6 D who can all play defense/skate and a couple who can add in some offense as 2 way D and most importantly a 1G who makes saves when its winning time (a money tender) .. this has always been da Cup formula .. our issue which I have stated many many times is we have/had a president/Shanny and a rook GM/Dubie who put together perhaps da worst roster construction possible for playoff performance .. those 2 put together a regular season roster which got team 2nd most goals scored in NHL regular season last year so we have what we have a very good regular season team BUT 4 forwards translate to a very weak post season team .. and just as important they overpaid all 4 of them to such a degree we can't get 6D and a 1D with CAP monies leftover .. this season upcoming is a write off .. da following year is when we got a chance to sign remaining FA D and a FA 1G .. Mitch will leave for free .. JT will either retire of sign back at league minimum to help team build a playoff roster

 

[Craig Button]

Deep bruise? I thought high ankle sprain. Gilmour played with his foot frozen.

If Mitch can't get through the first round with a deep bruise, no way he makes it through another three rounds.

As per Gilmour “In the first round of the ’94 playoffs against Chicago, I twisted my ankle and on the plane I’d wear a plastic boot. Game 7 in Chicago we won 1-0 and I had to get four needles to freeze my ankle before I could put my skate on. I didn’t even know how tight my skate was. I had to keep an eye on it to make sure it didn’t come loose. By the third round against Vancouver, I was down to taking one or two needles before the game”

Gilmour had a mild injury. It’s a total joke to compare it to Marner

It’s also very stupid to do that in todays game where the game is much faster.

 

[Antropovsky]

Such a stale talking point. I find it hard to criticize Marner when he has produced the most in the post season out of the core 4.

"Marner: 54 GP 49 PTS Matthews: 54 GP 47 PTS Tavares: 59 GP 45 PTS Nylander: 51 GP 40 PTS Rielly: 54 GP 38 PTS"

He has sucked but somehow managed to out produce the highest goal scorer and former Hart winner Matthews and midol-less Nylander who has been good lately but he doesn't exactly play a well rounded game.. Tavares has been an anchor in the top 6 for time and no one wants to be real about it and sugar coat his clutch moments and "going to the dirty areas in the trenches" even though he's a terrible slow forechecker and can't throw a hit if his life depended on it. But ok keep up the chatter.

Nylander and Tavares are out because they dont play with Matthews. Matthews quite literally was voted as a better player them Mcdavid by his peers 2/3 of the last seasons. 32 year old Tavares is outside his prime now and isnt boosting linemates like a 26 year old #1-2 center in the league.

Marner plays PK, and point on the pp. He also plays with Matthews as indicated earlier. Matthews has the misfortune of playing with Marner... who literally is miles away from the net and barely produces one shot per game.

Watch all Marners points and you will note that he is just along for the ride as his elite linrmates make the big plays. Seriously, id love to break down each point and discuss who the play driver was. Ive offered thid (and done it) in the past and the offer is always turned down by bias Marner fans.

Matthews and Marners production in the playoffs are both too low. However, as pointed out by a reporter who identified that Marner was shooting 40' from the net and literally the worst on the team in slot shots... Matthews production is very likely suffering because of Marner playing such a perimeter game.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Meant to reply to your previous quote.

I'm always a little surprised at how people can be so critical of Tavares, and at the same time give no consideration to the idea that his weaker play has any effect on Nylander's numbers.

OK - that makes sense.

I was specifically replying to a post about how Marner has more points than Nylander in the playoffs (citing 8 years of data), while at the same time complaining about how terrible Tavares is.

Just pointing out that maybe JTs lack of playoff production affects Nylander's numbers.

Someone pointed out that if you only look at the last 5 years, Nylander has outscored Marner 17-6 and has only one fewer points (32-33) while playing 3 fewer games.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Fair post.

I think he does not produce in the playoffs at a high pace like he does in the regular season, is quite simply better team, better systems , better opposing coaching. His game is fancy dancy high risk high reward type plays, when you play against Veznia goalies and Norris type defenders every night, you wont expose those players with fancy plays like you would against team with lower calibre type players. He is still a PPG over the last three playoff years but still not nearly as good as his regular season pace.



Oh fun you're going to be there?

If I go will you throw rose petals at my feet too?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

As per Gilmour “In the first round of the ’94 playoffs against Chicago, I twisted my ankle and on the plane I’d wear a plastic boot. Game 7 in Chicago we won 1-0 and I had to get four needles to freeze my ankle before I could put my skate on. I didn’t even know how tight my skate was. I had to keep an eye on it to make sure it didn’t come loose. By the third round against Vancouver, I was down to taking one or two needles before the game”

Gilmour had a mild injury. It’s a total joke to compare it to Marner

It’s also very stupid to do that in todays game where the game is much faster.

 

[Confucius]

Bruising is probably dependent on different factors. How trauma occurred, maybe even force or velocity of trauma and if other muscles ligaments were also injured in combination with the high ankle sprain. So you could be right. I just know the pain is crazy and goes from ankle to leg. Either way I don’t think it had a huge impact on his play either. And if it did, it wasn’t noticeable. I’m sure he wasn’t 100% but he was good enough to play so it can’t be used as an excuse at the end of the day.

So if injury keeps you at less than 100%, it’s not an excuse for not playing well? You are demanding. lol!

 

[Nineteen67]

The bruise went up his leg and past his knee too.

Looks gross poor kid. Came back too soon from the injury but what can you do?

He had to return early as the team was on Mission #70.

 

[Hellcat]

If I go will you throw rose petals at my feet too?

Will you settle for Frebreeze?

I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate! Snail yes, tree no.

It seems to me that he has great hands as long as his feet aren't moving at the same time.

LOL fair. he would do well to lose about 15lbs.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Will you settle for Frebreeze?

LOL fair. he would do well to lose about 15lbs.

Well it does provide a soft freshness!

 

[NinjaKick]

Ignoring opponent quality and context in the playoffs is indeed ridiculous. You're right about that. The mistake you make is thinking that later round automatically equals tougher opponent or increased difficulty to produce, and that's simply not true. Over the past little while in the playoffs, the Leafs have faced some of the most difficult situations to produce in the league. What we have seen is a team-wide phenomenon, not individual.

oh really?

why is that?

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I'm always a little surprised at how people can be so critical of Tavares, and at the same time give no consideration to the idea that his weaker play has any effect on Nylander's numbers.

You make a valid point. Like I said in an earlier post , there just wasn't the right mix of playing styles. If Nylander had a 2nd like center in the mould of Ryan Kesler or Jeremy Roenick who had speed , grit , D , offense , laid it all out there to win there's no doubt our 2nd line would have been more impactful on our success and Nylander's numbers all round would be different.

 

[Racer88]

The bruise went up his leg and past his knee too.

Looks gross poor kid. Came back too soon from the injury but what can you do?

That’s a “gas station “ tattoo

 

[notDatsyuk]

The bruise went up his leg and past his knee too.

Looks gross poor kid. Came back too soon from the injury but what can you do?

Three weeks after the playoffs ended? He missed some regular season games, played a few, two weeks of playoffs, so we're looking at two months and the bruising is still there? Kid must have bad circulation.