Does Kris Letang fall into the category of a Hall of Famer to you?

[Khelandros]

I love how people are saying he won 3 cups.

He didn't play a single game in the playoffs, and is only granted a cup as he barely passed the 40 regular season games played threshold in 2017.
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Vladimir Konstantinov is a 2 time Stanley Cup Champion. Through no fault of his own, he didn't play a single game of the regular season or the playoffs for the second one.

Sometimes things happen in life we have no control over.

Is Konstantinov a 2 time Stanley Cup Champion or not?

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Vladimir Konstantinov is a 2 time Stanley Cup Champion. Through no fault of his own, he didn't play a single game of the regular season or the playoffs for the second one.

Sometimes things happen in life we have no control over.

Is Konstantinov a 2 time Stanley Cup Champion or not?

I thought we were talking about whether a guy was a HHOF or not? Not whether a guy has been given a Stanley Cup on technical grounds.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Must be nice to possess such accurate knowledge on the only three undisputed “rover” defensemen of the last two decades. Erik Karlsson isn’t a rover? Dustin Byfuglien?

Also, the Penguins have consistently been an average to below average team in terms of GA for I don’t know how many years now. It’s pretty abnormal for a team consistently striving to win a Cup.

Offensive defenseman are not the same thing as a rover, and I would probably remove Green from that list actually, he was a Dman who would just jump into the rush at every opportunity under Boudreau.

Byfuglien was a forward and a Damn at different points in his career, but never at the same time. EK65 is a very offensively-inclined defenseman who is separately bad at defense, but he still plays his position.

 

[Toby91ca]

To reiterate: 5th in ice time per game among D-men on the Penguins for the 2009 cup, and missed the entire 2017 cup run with an injury.

Yes, but not a lot of separation in minutes and he produced more offensively than everyone except Gonchar (who got the vast majority of his points on PP).

Letang is #3 in ice time per game in the NHL over the past 11 years.

 

[RandV]

Basically a borderline guy who will probably be carried in from a career spent playing with Crosby & Malkin. If he was drafted by say Nashville, or almost any other team, then he'd remain on the fringe.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Offensive defenseman are not the same thing as a rover, and I would probably remove Green from that list actually, he was a Dman who would just jump into the rush at every opportunity under Boudreau.

Byfuglien was a forward and a Damn at different points in his career, but never at the same time. EK65 is a very offensively-inclined defenseman who is separately bad at defense, but he still plays his position.

Maybe you can help me out. What exactly does Brent Burns do differently than Erik Karlsson that makes Burns a rover and Karlsson not one? What quantifiable evidence is there?

To be clear, I'm not saying that just to snipe back at you. I'm saying it because I assume that you do have some type of statistic or other objective information that illustrates the difference.

For me, "rover" has always been an offensively inclined defenseman willing to risk their defensive positioning (routinely) in an effort to contribute in the offensive zone. I've seen Kris Letang hovering around the opposing team's goal line enough to give him that classification.

 

[MadLuke]

Yes, but not a lot of separation in minutes and he produced more offensively than everyone except Gonchar (who got the vast majority of his points on PP).

But he was in no way a number 1 D at that point on that team.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

At even strength, he was on the third pair:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

I think part is just revisionism of seeing big names on a team, part also is some fanbases exaggerating how much support Malkin-Crosby had that year, to build a narrative why other combo of superstar could not get it done.

 

[Crosby2010]

The NHL isn't going to let the opportunity for Sid, Geno, and Letand to go skipping into a Hall of fame induction holding hands. Does he deserve it? Meh. Did Kevin Lowe? The longer the HOF is around, the more guys who are debatable are going to get in. Whatever.

When the Pens won the Cup in 2017 Letang did not play in the playoffs. Some might look at this and say "See, they could win without him." Well, if you remember that defense from 2017 they were hanging by a thread. The Pens let two series go further than they should have with Washington and Ottawa. They needed that #1 d-man who would play 30 minutes a game. There was more of a defense by committee that spring. Justin Schultz was their #1 d-man that spring. And he played well and probably as good as he ever had played. But they were running on fumes by the time they played Ottawa. The Sens somehow took them to 7 games in overtime. And then the first two games against the Preds in the final they were just drained. Won the first two games but got outshot badly in both of them. By the time the series got back to Pittsburgh the Pens were their usual self and order was restored. But to me I think watching the Pens that year made me realize how much they missed Letang, not how they could do it without him. 2016 he easily could have been the Smythe winner. And he was good for them in 2009 as well.

I wouldn't mind if he got in, he wouldn't be the worst one. Would have won the Norris had not missed 25% of the season in 2013 - weak year or not.

 

[Neil Racki]

No.

Not for me.

 

[qc14]

But that's where you start getting more of a HOF argument. Longevity is a great argument for HOF rather than peaking very high but not lasting very long.

Oh yea I totally agree, it's super impressive and a lot of HOF guys are in their because of that longevity and what you value more in the hall is more of a personal preference thing.

Obviously I'm a little biased from my fandom but I just think Letang's peak isn't as impressive as most HOF defenseman and his overall case is a lot closer HOF case wise to guys most people would have pretty squarely on the outside looking in like Green or Giordano than "the discourse" would have you believe. In terms of straight-up career comparisons him and Carlson have had almost identical stats/awards/profiles/team success/accumulator vs. peak splits and you never see these types of debates about Carlson.

Certainly wouldn't be the most egregious HOF guy if inducted though, especially recently.

 

[Shrimper]

I love how people are saying he won 3 cups.

He didn't play a single game in the playoffs, and is only granted a cup as he barely passed the 40 regular season games played threshold in 2017.
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I don't think he gets in.

His career spans nearly 2 decades:
Mathematical average says 12 defensemen get in per decade:

Is Letang one of the top 24 defenders between 2007-2025?

When he started it was:
Lidstrom
Zubov
Niedermayer
Gonchar
Pronger
Blake
Chara

During his peak it was:
Doughty
Karlsson
Subban
Byfuglien
Weber
Suter
Keith
Burns
Giordano

Now:
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
Bouchard
Heiskanen
Hughes
McAvoy

That's 24 Dmen.

Letang is in a mix of:
Pietrangelo, Markov, Campbell, Boyle, Carlsson, Dahlin, Rafalski, Timonen, Schneider, Seabrook, McDonaugh, Hamilton, Ekholm, Jones, OEL, Schneider.


I think Pietrangelo, Rafalski, Markov, and Carlsson are good comparables for Letang. 1 or 2 of them might squeeze in at some point, but I think Pies is probably the best bet. The newer guys might fall off a cliff.

Heck, maybe Evan Bouchard is the best comparable for Letang, given the team composition.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Not IMO

Million dollar skater with a 5 cent brain.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

No way

 

[tarheelhockey]

Vladimir Konstantinov is a 2 time Stanley Cup Champion. Through no fault of his own, he didn't play a single game of the regular season or the playoffs for the second one.

Sometimes things happen in life we have no control over.

Is Konstantinov a 2 time Stanley Cup Champion or not?

No, he’s not. It is very appropriate for the Wings to give him a ring and his name on the Cup, given the circumstances of the past 12 months where he served as an inspiration to the team. But it would be completely ridiculous to suggest he was a Cup champion in a season where he wasn’t even on the roster at all. At that point the word “champion” ceases to mean anything.

Having one’s name on the Cup is not synonymous with being a champion. Peter Pocklington had his dad’s name inscribed on the Cup, does that mean Peter Pocklington’s dad is a Stanley Cup champion? Same with rings. The Kings gave Marcel Dionne a Cup ring, does that mean a guy who famously never won a Cup is a Stanley Cup champion because the Kings say so?

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

No but he'll get in anyway. Lots of undeserving guys in there, most notably Kevin Lowe.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He'll be helped by being on successful NHL and international teams. On his own, he probably doesn't make the cut although the bar is lower today.

 

[Toby91ca]

He'll be helped by being on successful NHL and international teams. On his own, he probably doesn't make the cut although the bar is lower today.

If you start going through the list of HOF members, you might find that the bar is probably higher today than it was many years ago.

 

[Blitzkrug]

No shot

No individual hardware outside of the Masterton, little international hardware outside of two golds at the WJC, was never really in the conversation for best defenseman in the league.

He's essentially a shittier Brent Seabrook resume wise. Seabrook isn't getting in so no way Letang does.

 

[biturbo19]

For me? Easily.

By his actual resume...probably not. Because people will get all caught up in the stats, thinking it's the "Hall of Great Stats" rather than the Hall of Fame".

He's a famous, integral part of multiple championships and the "third musketeer" to one of the era defining "cores". He was also deserving of being at least much closer to a Norris trophy than he ever got (in part, because he was always seen as the "third musketeer" beneficiary of Sid and Geno). And he's played with such a distinctive style that really jumps off the ice at both ends. Not to mention the terrific narrative of everything he's overcome in his career.


But resume-wise...he's going to inevitably be hurt in consideration by all the time missed. He'll also be hurt by the fact that he doesn't have that individual hardware. And the biggest thing that'll hurt him, is the Penguins get it done one time without him. Even though that was largely a case of some others stepping up above and beyond and everything falling just right without him...it'll inevitably be used as ammunition to argue Letang doesn't belong in the HoF because he was just a "passenger". Which is stupid, but that tends to be how it goes.

I hope not though. I hope he gets in. He rises beyond the threshold of being a key player in the fabric of the game through his entire (long) career era. He's a player where, giving a summary of how his era transpired...it's hard not to at least mention him a few times as being a notable player.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

As a Pens fan who has watched him his whole career, it's a maybe. I think if he had exactly 1 Norris, he makes it for certain, whether or not he actually should get in. I just think that's how the HoF looks at Dman like him

 

[bambamcam4ever]

No shot

No individual hardware outside of the Masterton, little international hardware outside of two golds at the WJC, was never really in the conversation for best defenseman in the league.

He's essentially a shittier Brent Seabrook resume wise. Seabrook isn't getting in so no way Letang does.

A shittier Brent Seabrook? Man that's pretty far off base. Seabrook 's gold medal isn't really a bright spot on his resume either since Babcock barely played him as the tournament progressed

 

[biturbo19]

A shittier Brent Seabrook? Man that's pretty far off base. Seabrook 's gold medal isn't really a bright spot on his resume either since Babcock barely played him as the tournament progressed

There are a number of Canadian RHD who are going to be somewhat dinged in their HoF applications, just for being a Right Handed shooting defenceman for Canada internationally...at a moment in time where there was just absolutely insane depth of Norris-caliber RHD to staff probably two entire teams and still have some overflow of world class talent.

 

[Khelandros]

No, he’s not. It is very appropriate for the Wings to give him a ring and his name on the Cup, given the circumstances of the past 12 months where he served as an inspiration to the team. But it would be completely ridiculous to suggest he was a Cup champion in a season where he wasn’t even on the roster at all. At that point the word “champion” ceases to mean anything.

Having one’s name on the Cup is not synonymous with being a champion. Peter Pocklington had his dad’s name inscribed on the Cup, does that mean Peter Pocklington’s dad is a Stanley Cup champion? Same with rings. The Kings gave Marcel Dionne a Cup ring, does that mean a guy who famously never won a Cup is a Stanley Cup champion because the Kings say so?

Well, the NHL recognizes Konstantinov, just like Letang, as Stanley Cup Champions for the seasons they didn't play in the final.

Dionne is not.

 

[jetsforever]

I mean yeah, should be pretty easy