Does Kris Letang fall into the category of a Hall of Famer to you?

[Romang67]

Has a dman who won 3 or more cups as a #1 dman not got in?

Letang won one as a #1 D-man. He didn't play in the 2017 playoffs, and Gonchar was the #1D for the Penguins in 2009.

 

[The Macho King]

Borderline case, but he's going to get in. Whether he should? Different question but I am a small Hall guy.

 

[qc14]

Shea Weber: 589 points in 1038 games, 2x first team All-Star and 2x second team, 2x Norris runner-up, 1x time finalist, highest Hart finish of 13, WJC Gold Medal, 2x Olympic Gold

Kris Letang: 745 points in 1094 games, 2x second team All-Star, 1x Norris finalist, highest Hart finish of 20, 2x WJC Gold, 3x Stanley Cup

John Carlson 679 points in 1013 games, 1x first team All-Star and 1x second team, 1x Norris runner-up, highest Hart finish of 12, WJC Gold Medal (and OTGWG),1x Stanley Cup

Mike Green: 501 points in 880 games, 2x first team All-Star, 2x Norris runner-up, highest Hart finish of 13

Mark Giordano: 577 points in 1148 games, 1x first team All-Star, 1x Norris winner, highest Hart finish of 9

Letang obviously has the cups on his direct peers (and unlike MAF are three "real" cups in my eyes ...) but pretty much nothing else. Canadian/Pittsburgh factor will probably get him in and given the standard set by having guys like Weber in the hall I don't mind even if to me he's more of a "Hall of Very Good" guy. It's definitely telling about the state of hockey media and fandom still that Carlson, Green, and Giordano will get nowhere near the same amount of consideration

 

[Toby91ca]

I love how people are saying he won 3 cups.

He didn't play a single game in the playoffs, and is only granted a cup as he barely passed the 40 regular season games played threshold in 2017.
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I don't think he gets in.

His career spans nearly 2 decades:
Mathematical average says 12 defensemen get in per decade:

Is Letang one of the top 24 defenders between 2007-2025?

When he started it was:
Lidstrom
Zubov
Niedermayer
Gonchar
Pronger
Blake
Chara

During his peak it was:
Doughty
Karlsson
Subban
Byfuglien
Weber
Suter
Keith
Burns
Giordano

Now:
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
Bouchard
Heiskanen
Hughes
McAvoy

That's 24 Dmen.

Letang is in a mix of:
Pietrangelo, Markov, Campbell, Boyle, Carlsson, Dahlin, Rafalski, Timonen, Schneider, Seabrook, McDonaugh, Hamilton, Ekholm, Jones, OEL, Schneider.


I think Pietrangelo, Rafalski, Markov, and Carlsson are good comparables for Letang. 1 or 2 of them might squeeze in at some point, but I think Pies is probably the best bet. The newer guys might fall off a cliff.

Heck, maybe Evan Bouchard is the best comparable for Letang, given the team composition.

What is meant by the list of players you came up with under the headings "when he started" "during his peak" and "now" - your idea is that you should have about 12 per decade and that's 24 for those 2 decades. Are you suggesting you'd take everyone from those lists before Letang? If so, I definitely disagree with you on several of the names...but if not, I guess I don't understand the lists.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

The style that Pitt has played ever since Michel Therrien was fired has been an inherently offense heavy system. Letang has thrived in that environment. He’s been allowed to be a rover for essentially his entire career and his offensive instincts have earned him some great offensive numbers.

That being said, guys like Tomas Kaberle also put up amazing stats (albeit for a far shorter timeframe) putting up huge offensive numbers form the D position just because they were never asked to commit to D, nor did they have the defensive talent to do so. On the one hand, I feel like Letang is a HHOF because he played the position he was asked to play as best as one really could. On the other hand, I’m not sure I’ve seen a top defenseman get burned more times than Kris Letang has in his career defending a rush the other way.

 

[redwings86]

When he started it was:
Lidstrom
Zubov
Niedermayer
Gonchar
Pronger
Blake
Chara

Allways better than Letang.

Now:
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
Bouchard
Heiskanen
Hughes
McAvoy

Better than Letang of currently NHL.

 

[Toby91ca]

Letang obviously has the cups on his direct peers (and unlike MAF are three "real" cups in my eyes ...)

Super weird comment to make seeing as he didn't play a single playoff game for one of these 3 cups....at least MAF played playoff games in each of those 3 cups.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Has a dman who won 3 or more cups as a #1 dman not got in?

Letang won one cup as a #1 Dman

 

[604]

I’d say anyone with a Norris goes ahead of Letang, especially since he was never a 1st team all-star.

That being said, I don’t understand how Gio and Sunny won Norris trophies.

 

[redwings86]

During his peak it was:
Doughty
Karlsson
Subban
Byfuglien
Weber
Suter
Keith
Burns
Giordano

Better than Letang.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The style that Pitt has played ever since Michel Therrien was fired has been an inherently offense heavy system. Letang has thrived in that environment. He’s been allowed to be a rover for essentially his entire career and his offensive instincts have earned him some great offensive numbers.

That being said, guys like Tomas Kaberle also put up amazing stats (albeit for a far shorter timeframe) putting up huge offensive numbers form the D position just because they were never asked to commit to D, nor did they have the defensive talent to do so. On the one hand, I feel like Letang is a HHOF because he played the position he was asked to play as best as one really could. On the other hand, I’m not sure I’ve seen a top defenseman get burned more times than Kris Letang has in his career defending a rush the other way.

The only true rovers in the last two decades are Mike Green, Burns, and Josi. Saying Letang was such just outs yourself as not knowing what you're talking about.

The Penguins have played several styles since Therrien, they are not all offense heavy. You'd only have to look as far back as last year to see that.

 

[qc14]

Super weird comment to make seeing as he didn't play a single playoff game for one of these 3 cups....at least MAF played playoff games in each of those 3 cups.

My bad I read HRef wrong lol ... only makes my point stronger though

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

He wouldnt be in my HOF but its pretty clear the voters are gonna put in Crosby/Malkin/Letang/MAF from the Crosby era Pens

 

[qc14]

Four defensemen better.

Letang is an accumulator rather than a high-peak guy. There are a whole lot more defenseman than that list who had a much higher peak than him, even if you define a "peak" as a two or three season span instead of one. What makes Letang impressive is that he's been able to maintain a consistent level of 5th to 15th best defenseman in the league for almost 20 years.

 

[Toby91ca]

Letang is an accumulator rather than a high-peak guy. There are a whole lot more defenseman than that list who had a much higher peak than him, even if you define a "peak" as a two or three season span instead of one. What makes Letang impressive is that he's been able to maintain a consistent level of 5th to 15th best defenseman in the league for almost 20 years.

But that's where you start getting more of a HOF argument. Longevity is a great argument for HOF rather than peaking very high but not lasting very long.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

The only true rovers in the last two decades are Mike Green, Burns, and Josi. Saying Letang was such just outs yourself as not knowing what you're talking about.

The Penguins have played several styles since Therrien, they are not all offense heavy. You'd only have to look as far back as last year to see that.

Must be nice to possess such accurate knowledge on the only three undisputed “rover” defensemen of the last two decades. Erik Karlsson isn’t a rover? Dustin Byfuglien?

Also, the Penguins have consistently been an average to below average team in terms of GA for I don’t know how many years now. It’s pretty abnormal for a team consistently striving to win a Cup.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

He wouldnt be in my HOF but its pretty clear the voters are gonna put in Crosby/Malkin/Letang/MAF from the Crosby era Pens

Geez, I love MAF, but his potential induction is even more debatable than Letang’s.

Edit: a closer studying of MAF’s stats actually make it a little more plausible

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Yes, he's arguably the most underrated dman of this generation. He was a key piece of all of the Pens cups with that core.

 

[Romang67]

Yes, he's arguably the most underrated dman of this generation. He was a key piece of all of the Pens cups with that core.

To reiterate: 5th in ice time per game among D-men on the Penguins for the 2009 cup, and missed the entire 2017 cup run with an injury.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Yes, he's arguably the most underrated dman of this generation. He was a key piece of all of the Pens cups with that core.

Yeah don’t know how you could seriously say that when he literally didn’t play one year and the first being before he was even established but go off

 

[MadLuke]

He could be the most underrated because of no team Canada in high profile tournament, which mentally push people out of a Top 6 just among Canadian, even if it can be a left-right D things or needs or injury timing (i.e. maybe you would have been above an Hamhuis-Vlasic in a world without Doughty-Keith doing everything you do better or made 2018 team, etc...) .

Since 01/01/2010

He is 5th among defenceman in points in the regular season and in the playoff, 5th in minute played per games (250 games or more), had a ~Smythe cup win run in his career and had was going for a shortened ~Norris (over Subban) type season in 2013 before the injury:

NHL Stats

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www.nhl.com

Missing some games all the time, making him avoid big individual season total (and award attention) could have pushed him more down that it should, but in reverse having played on such on a high focus market that made the playoff every year until he was old should have counterbalanced that.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

What is meant by the list of players you came up with under the headings "when he started" "during his peak" and "now" - your idea is that you should have about 12 per decade and that's 24 for those 2 decades. Are you suggesting you'd take everyone from those lists before Letang? If so, I definitely disagree with you on several of the names...but if not, I guess I don't understand the lists.

Pretty much nailed it.

Is he in the list of top 24 Dmen in the 2 decades he played?

If you think he belongs in the top 24, then you likely think he's in. I personally don't think he is. Won't shock me if he does get in, but he's certainly a borderline case.

 

[Toby91ca]

Geez, I love MAF, but his potential induction is even more debatable than Letang’s.

Edit: a closer studying of MAF’s stats actually make it a little more plausible

With MAF I think it's impossible to keep that resume out of the HOF. Not to get into that debate and I agree with a lot of his detractors in a lot of different areas, however, I simply see no way whatsoever that someone with that resume would be kept out.

 

[FlameChampion]

I think he will make it

(Playing on the Penguins helps. But he also contributed to that team. Penguins have never really had a great dcore so I think he probably deserves more credit).

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Yes, he's arguably the most underrated dman of this generation. He was a key piece of all of the Pens cups with that core.

Letang is "underrated"?

That's a first.